Creature Handler Archive
Thread: What about our uber master lvl weapon...ideas on that for us CH :-)
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soulsyphon
Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:55 am
#1
If you look at all the other eleite combat professions you will see that they have a uber master lvl weapon or 2. Now if you look at hem you will notice that thee pretty powerful, then add in they can be sliced, and further enhanced ..fo example a master tka has the knuckler of katarn it is very powerful, but made more powerful if the person is morethen a tka, say he/she is a also a master pikeman, and master brawler ll those general mods will make that weapon very powerful beyond what a master tka can do alone. Now you ask what does this all have to do with a uber master lvl CH weapon, well for one we don't have one, the only elite combat profession not to have one, and second it was ment to make a point in that our weapons are pets, there is no other mods to boost our weapons (pets) power outside CH profession. Now withthe new changes to CH to allow us to customize our pets does make up for not being able to slice a pet to incress effectivness, but still a normal tamble lvl 70 pet is just not even close to par with the other elite profession master lvl uber weapons. Since we can not pull for our weapons outside of our template for master ch, our master lvl uber weapon should be more powerful from the start initially to help keep the balance. Also other uber lvl weapons can be kept forever under a adk, where as our pets die from vitality loss that is unpreventable.A CH master lvl uber weapon should come from the wild, and to keep to the theme should be a creature, but should be taken from the wild not gotten instantly at the end of a quest, were the combat specilized version of the scout after all, so i say the weapon should be a special control device given out through a quest only master Ch can do, and the tasks should be scout related, since a CH has more skills then just a mindless killing machine. This special control device will let us Ch take control of a single creature of our choice, he creature will retain all the stats from the time it was captured, but for max pet lvl becomes a lvl 70. This should allow us to tame something like a gorax, or a kryat dragon, or even the bane back spider if we so wish, but only one time , for one used it will be consumed, pet will be in our control, with no vitality counter. This would even out the scales for us. Now this is my idea what should be done, would be intrested to hear inpu on his, also any other ideas on what to do about our uber master lvl weapon. Also keep in mind , yes the changes to CH are nice, all creatures can bemodified, so that does not stand anything out , and a uber master lvl weapon should far stand out from the crowd.
Luxora
Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:12 am
#2
Despite your... presentation, the idea is still an issue that needs attention.
It takes me 2.87mil to rollover a CL70 seven times, since they get 7 ability slots, and that's assuming I got one every rollover. That's a lot more work than another profession, but in the end even after all that, I could name many different weapons that I would say are easier to acquire, yet worth more. Imagine a CH fully-leveled and fully-trained a CL70 pet with a combination of badass abilities; after all that work, how much would it sell for? Probably very little, given that you're only selling to a market of MCH's, and not all of which are combat-oriented. But to my main point.
_________________________
The devs don't seem to be taking into account several key factors:
1. It takes us 15 seconds to pull out our weapon, more if you use twins or triplets. Therefore, if you get jumped/ambushed by NPC's (or a BH, or during PvP), you're theoretically fighting with an arm tied behind your back (lacking 1 of your 2 professions) because CH can't pull pets in combat... Which really makes no realistic sense.
2. Our weapon(s) can be killed. Very easily without abilities, and I haven't fully-leveled my pets to test if the passive armor/health/regen abilities are worth what they should've been worth. Once an enemy kills your pet, you have to either heal it (with stims, or do Flavor of the Month and pick up Medic) or Incap Recovery and it will get back up with a sliver of health just to be struck down again. That, and they will suffer Vitality loss. Where is the CH's equivalent of an Anti-Decay Kit? Surely, since we will never see something like that, the badassitude of our pets should make up for their shortcomings and short lifespan (if you use them in combat.)
3. Playing upon #2, when our weapon is killed, that leaves CH's weak and vulnerable. I am NOT unhappy with this. This is how it should be, however, the devs need to buff our pets more. For example, the CH themselves should be 50% of the battle (as they are one profession unto themselves, let's say you're an MCH/MRifle, you would be shooting your enemy with your rifle, but since you don't have another combat profession which General Ranged Accuracy/Speed/etc, you are not as powerful as someone who did that would be. Therefore, the other 50% of the battle relies upon your pet to make up for what you sacrificed in taking the CH profession.) However, as it now stands, our pets are not 50% of the battle. They can be taken out fairly quickly, and while they do not do terribly-poor damage, they certainly don't put out half the damage of a Brawler/TKM or etc. I am not as familiar as the devs are with how things are balanced currently, this is only assumption and what I've seen. And as stated above, once the pet is quickly dispatched, that leaves the near-defenseless CH at the mercy of their opponent(s), and whatever skill they have with their other profession (if they have one.)
4. Due to complicated bugs, our weapon(s) do not always function properly. The pathing bug slows them down (when by all rights an animal should be faster than a person on foot, and something equivalent of a cheetah should keep up with a speeder), there's another bug where if your pet attacks a lair, then you pull it off to go attack a mob, it will re-attack the lair instead. I know that so many complex bugs cannot be fixed at once, I'm simply pointing out all our disadvantages. Couple this with all the above mentioned notes, and I believe we're nowhere near the equals of the other elite combat professions.
_____________________
Now, where are our advantages in combat? What gives us the right to be called an "elite combat profession" as we were when the CU arrived?
As the above poster mentioned (somewhere in there), there is no way to "stack professions" for MCH (and woe be to whoever did if it was available, you'd be better off doing the damage yourself, because apparently even if you put 100%into bettering your pets, they'd never be as good as a player. They way things are set up now, 50% is player and 50% is pet, being that you sacrifice one profession for the pet(s) that to be honest, would be better spent elsewhere for combat-only.) Continuing on, there is no Necrosis-drop weapon out there with mods on it like "+20 to pet attack speed" or "+10 to pet melee accuracy" and etc, certed to Master Creature Handlers only (wouldn't that be nifty?). There is no way to better our pets, no equivalent of what other professions have, other than the new ability system which is just a revamp of the old Special Attacks/states system on BE'd pets, but now we also have passive abilities (the majority of whichare quoted as being broken) and we still don't have stats/numbers for those abilities so we can calculate just how good they are.
Summarizing my post, I would like to see the devs endeavor (pun intended) to give CH's the extra edge they need to make us a viable option for combat. I would also hope they don't just shove us into the closet to be forgotten about after giving us this "upgrade," because I'd really like to see something like the theoretical MCH weapon I mentioned above, or other things in the game that are MCH oriented (like those stims that give +5 to Rifle Speed, and etc. What about MCH stims that are loot-only from various mobs? Things like that. Give us what other professions have, and it will also make our profession seem more in-depth, too, rather than just the player and the pet. Other professions have so many other ways to augment themselves, and while MCH's also have a second profession that can better themselves, our pets are only as good as we grind them to be. There is no other extraneous way to "upgrade" our pets, like many other profs can upgrade their weapons [and themselves, like with stims] such as powerups, ADK's, and so forth. In this, I feel we have been left out and it gives us a big disadvantage.)
I also feel that the reason the devs don't give us much in the combat department is that they're afraid of unbalancing the careful balancing act they've done since the CU, and don't want MCH's overpowered again like they once were (I'm sure that sounds like a fable to all the little novice CH's... Yes, once upon a time...) I'm sure they could grant us what the other professions have, and we wouldn't be overpowered.
soulsyphon
Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:57 pm
#3
first off thank you for replying . i just feel the best elite weapon for us is the special control device idea, something we can get and use as a master ch only that lets us take possesion of any creature in the game ie. gorax, kryats, kin'day, what ever, the pet taken over should keep the stats it had before the the device was used, but for purpose of max lvl pet is a lvl 70 so it can be called. Some of the rules with the collar should be the creature controled does not lose vitality, and the device can remove from the creature to take on another pet, but the previous creature is destroyed Or have the creature take vitality loss, but still be able to get a new creature to replace it when it wears out. I assume most Ch don't want to get a pet from a mission , they want to hunt outthere own pet, this gives them the freedom to do so, to let there master lvl weapon match there needs which follows lines with CH being the most flexable combat profession. Getting a device to get what they want is the best idea, and no one can complain on what they get if they are free to choose it.
BlackTigress1
Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:06 pm
#4
Interesting idea, but it will never happen, the reason for putting in the level restrictions was that we were 'too powerful' in their opinion especially when coupled with an elite gun profession. When our pets were good they were reportedly 'too' good so they cut em. Then with the "CU" they cut them again (stares at her 12k/500 dmg pets that will never see the light of day) They have been steadily dropping our damage output and our effective health. although we can have 16k h now, 2 CL 35s with 8k h respectively I made with my BE, rather shocked about it, But then it might be nerfed soon so I won't get my hopes up that it's intended.
*edited because I was half sleep and couldn't add. best 35 pets i have made is 8.3k .
Thanks to BE for pointing that out please excuse my mind burp.
Message Edited by BlackTigress1 on 09-02-2005 05:18 AM
YuriaTayde
Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:26 pm
#5
I want a whip 
A little special weapon that instead of doing lots of damage, has a 30% chance to break agro when you hit with it, scare the animal into running away. We wouldn't be able to help our pet in combat with it very wellthough. Maybe it would also have random special effects in them, like, one whip increases pet regen rates as if they all had BeastlyConstitutionL1 (that's the regen one right?) Another one would increase or decrease the agro they get as if the pet has, hunted withdrawlL1. Nothing above L1, and only while it's equipped.
A little special weapon that instead of doing lots of damage, has a 30% chance to break agro when you hit with it, scare the animal into running away. We wouldn't be able to help our pet in combat with it very wellthough. Maybe it would also have random special effects in them, like, one whip increases pet regen rates as if they all had BeastlyConstitutionL1 (that's the regen one right?) Another one would increase or decrease the agro they get as if the pet has, hunted withdrawlL1. Nothing above L1, and only while it's equipped. I can see that raising soooooo many bugs though, so I'd be happy with the 30% anti-agro.
NonCant
Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:23 pm
#6
_________________________________
Luxora wrote:
"Despite your... presentation...."
______________________________________
lmao
CalicoJacked
Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:25 am
#7
Luxora wrote:
Despite your... presentation, the idea is still an issue that needs attention.
It takes me 2.87mil to rollover a CL70 seven times, since they get 7 ability slots, and that's assuming I got one every rollover. That's a lot more work than another profession, but in the end even after all that, I could name many different weapons that I would say are easier to acquire, yet worth more. Imagine a CH fully-leveled and fully-trained a CL70 pet with a combination of badass abilities; after all that work, how much would it sell for? Probably very little, given that you're only selling to a market of MCH's, and not all of which are combat-oriented. But to my main point.
_________________________
The devs don't seem to be taking into account several key factors:
1. It takes us 15 seconds to pull out our weapon, more if you use twins or triplets. Therefore, if you get jumped/ambushed by NPC's (or a BH, or during PvP), you're theoretically fighting with an arm tied behind your back (lacking 1 of your 2 professions) because CH can't pull pets in combat... Which really makes no realistic sense.
2. Our weapon(s) can be killed. Very easily without abilities, and I haven't fully-leveled my pets to test if the passive armor/health/regen abilities are worth what they should've been worth. Once an enemy kills your pet, you have to either heal it (with stims, or do Flavor of the Month and pick up Medic) or Incap Recovery and it will get back up with a sliver of health just to be struck down again. That, and they will suffer Vitality loss. Where is the CH's equivalent of an Anti-Decay Kit? Surely, since we will never see something like that, the badassitude of our pets should make up for their shortcomings and short lifespan (if you use them in combat.)
3. Playing upon #2, when our weapon is killed, that leaves CH's weak and vulnerable. I am NOT unhappy with this. This is how it should be, however, the devs need to buff our pets more. For example, the CH themselves should be 50% of the battle (as they are one profession unto themselves, let's say you're an MCH/MRifle, you would be shooting your enemy with your rifle, but since you don't have another combat profession which General Ranged Accuracy/Speed/etc, you are not as powerful as someone who did that would be. Therefore, the other 50% of the battle relies upon your pet to make up for what you sacrificed in taking the CH profession.) However, as it now stands, our pets are not 50% of the battle. They can be taken out fairly quickly, and while they do not do terribly-poor damage, they certainly don't put out half the damage of a Brawler/TKM or etc. I am not as familiar as the devs are with how things are balanced currently, this is only assumption and what I've seen. And as stated above, once the pet is quickly dispatched, that leaves the near-defenseless CH at the mercy of their opponent(s), and whatever skill they have with their other profession (if they have one.)
4. Due to complicated bugs, our weapon(s) do not always function properly. The pathing bug slows them down (when by all rights an animal should be faster than a person on foot, and something equivalent of a cheetah should keep up with a speeder), there's another bug where if your pet attacks a lair, then you pull it off to go attack a mob, it will re-attack the lair instead. I know that so many complex bugs cannot be fixed at once, I'm simply pointing out all our disadvantages. Couple this with all the above mentioned notes, and I believe we're nowhere near the equals of the other elite combat professions.
_____________________
Now, where are our advantages in combat? What gives us the right to be called an "elite combat profession" as we were when the CU arrived?
As the above poster mentioned (somewhere in there), there is no way to "stack professions" for MCH (and woe be to whoever did if it was available, you'd be better off doing the damage yourself, because apparently even if you put 100%into bettering your pets, they'd never be as good as a player. They way things are set up now, 50% is player and 50% is pet, being that you sacrifice one profession for the pet(s) that to be honest, would be better spent elsewhere for combat-only.) Continuing on, there is no Necrosis-drop weapon out there with mods on it like "+20 to pet attack speed" or "+10 to pet melee accuracy" and etc, certed to Master Creature Handlers only (wouldn't that be nifty?). There is no way to better our pets, no equivalent of what other professions have, other than the new ability system which is just a revamp of the old Special Attacks/states system on BE'd pets, but now we also have passive abilities (the majority of whichare quoted as being broken) and we still don't have stats/numbers for those abilities so we can calculate just how good they are.
Summarizing my post, I would like to see the devs endeavor (pun intended) to give CH's the extra edge they need to make us a viable option for combat. I would also hope they don't just shove us into the closet to be forgotten about after giving us this "upgrade," because I'd really like to see something like the theoretical MCH weapon I mentioned above, or other things in the game that are MCH oriented (like those stims that give +5 to Rifle Speed, and etc. What about MCH stims that are loot-only from various mobs? Things like that. Give us what other professions have, and it will also make our profession seem more in-depth, too, rather than just the player and the pet. Other professions have so many other ways to augment themselves, and while MCH's also have a second profession that can better themselves, our pets are only as good as we grind them to be. There is no other extraneous way to "upgrade" our pets, like many other profs can upgrade their weapons [and themselves, like with stims] such as powerups, ADK's, and so forth. In this, I feel we have been left out and it gives us a big disadvantage.)
I also feel that the reason the devs don't give us much in the combat department is that they're afraid of unbalancing the careful balancing act they've done since the CU, and don't want MCH's overpowered again like they once were (I'm sure that sounds like a fable to all the little novice CH's... Yes, once upon a time...) I'm sure they could grant us what the other professions have, and we wouldn't be overpowered.
Very well said LUXORA !!!
I'm sure I am not alone when I say "you have hit the nail on the head" 
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