Creature Handler Archive

Thread: Next best thing?...Don't hold your breath

fantoq
Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:02 pm
#1


I see a lot of posts in this forum referring to this or that yet-to-be-released game, all saying how promising they look.

This sounds a lot like SWG was presented in other game forums a year or year and a half ago. That said, I'm not defending SWG or SOE here; there are issues that I believe need to be resolved and can be resolved. I'm just addressing the optimistic posts about new games.


First, in order to attract a market the software needs to be able to run on a variety of platforms. Unlike PS2 or X-Box, Windows isn't just a couple of operating systems that can't be modified. There's thousands of variations depending on hardware and software installed on any given computer. SWG has some pretty high standards for hardware, I couldn't play it until I upgraded my computer, which I needed to do anyway to do some intense visual studio.net stuff.

And you can't drop dialup users from your potential customer base since they still represent about 60% of the overall market. Sure, most players will have broadband if they can, but there are still large geographic areas where it is not possible or cost-prohibitive. So you can't shoot tremendous bandwidth that you would like to send to the player.


Second, games of this level aren't produced by six guys working in a basement, unless they're living off of trust funds. They're put out by large companies who make several million dollars in investment. So if you spend 2.5 million on development, your 100,000 copiesdoesn't breakeven. (Since the publisher only gets about 1/2 the retail price). With a crew of say 20, you're tacking on an easy 100K per month in costs. So the publishers do rush to get stuff out; they're answering to pencil pushers and stockholders. I doubt they want to release it, it's just an economic reality.


Like I said, there are many fixes and improvements that can be done to this game. CH's have felt the nerf bat too much and I don't agree with Runesabre'sdesign decisions like the 30 second delay or the apparently low priority given to bugs like auto-store. That said, I think the program in general runs pretty well.


But before you run off thinking the next greatest thing will be that much better, think about it. They're being written for the same audience and technology that this is. I'd predict their boards will sound just like these do in six months, with talk of the next newest thing coming up.



fantoq
MCH
former Medic
App. Carbineer
Society of Interplanetary Mercenaries[SIM]/ stargate/ naboo
Merendel
Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:41 pm
#2

I agree, the new crop of games arnt going to be any better than the curent ones. I started online gameing back in the old MUD's and my first graphical online RPG was Asherons call. To be honest AC has been the only MMORPG that started out well. It had a few bugs but they were squashed quickly and their monthly updates and story set the tone for this generation of games, one that has yet to be matched to this day. over the corse of several years MS managed to run AC into the dirt through mismanagement but that may turn around now that turbine is back in control. Still the fact remains that AC is the only MMORPG I'v seen to date that started good and unfortunatly went down from there.


Sence AC every MMORPG that has been put out (includeing the sequel) has been driven by the back room beancounters and pushed out way too soon. what we are left with is imbalenced games full of bugs that cant be fixed in retail quickly as they require sweeping changes that devs can only do in a beta without pissing off their playerbase. Now the new games look stunning visualy, theres no doubt about that, however there is nothing there to back up the prety pictures. Mostly the player base ends up spending a year + of paying to beta test. The changes that happen over the corse of that year could have been acomplished in a few months of a true beta because in beta the devs have much more leway on what they can change. In retail small steps are required wich leaves players feeling like nothing is happening to adress the issues. to quell the outrage devs try to show they are working by makeing sweeping changes and end up overcompensating 90% of the time wich usaly is or results in a swing of the nerf bat. AO DAOC Shadowbane SWG (AC2 didnt even deserve my sticking around long enough to see if the bat was ever pulled) have all gone down this path and I see no change in site for the new games on the horizen.


To all that are waiting for the next new game I offer myself as an example. First I was waiting for AC2, that bomed do hard I went back to DAOC for a bit(was jaded on AC at the time) then I was waiting for SWG. That you all know how it turned out. None of the new games will be any different, your best bet will be to stick with a game that has been out for a time and has had a chance to grow more stable and compleat as hopeing for the next best game will set you up for disapointment.





nnnntnnnxgggggggggggggggggggggg)
To Upgrade something implies that you are adding too, enhancing, and fixing the thing that you are upgrading. The CU does not do this, it is not adding too, enhancing, or fixing the combat system that is in place, it is replacing the innovative SWG system with the generic one used by its competitors. Be honest and stop calling it the CU, Call it the CR (combat replacement) instead
dragonace
Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:44 pm
#3

Couldn't agree with you more fantoq !

I've been around with MMORPG's since UO (Ultima Online 1997)(I even played The Realm Online for awhile for those that remember it - heck it's even still around, only about 10,000 subscribers though). I haven't seen an online forum yet that didn't tout how "soon-to-be-released-game-x" was going to be so much better than the game we were playing.

Then when "game-x" was released and you visited that board there were just as many posts about the next "soon-to-be-released-game-x" and how it would be so much better than "game-x".

It's been this way for at least the last 7 years in the MMORPG genre. I don't expect it to change for at least that many more.

Here's a good link for those that want some MMORPG history:
http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce/Subscriptions.html
PostingAsIntended
Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:18 pm
#4

ID Software inc. revolutionized the online gaming world with Quake and their other FPS's. Their graphics engine was made by a handfull of kids, in an actualgarage no less.


Verante Interactive. futher revolutionized the online gaming world with Everquest. More than a handfull of people (but not much) and a nicer workspace than a garage. No way even close to the $$s spent that the poster thinks needs to be spent to create a success. (and i HATE it when people say that SOE made EQ. SOE BOUGHT EQ from VIover a yearafter release - the message boards at the time were like "uh oh")


What I am trying to say here is that it does not take a billion dollar company to create, design, and implement a billion dollar idea. Get that out of your heads right now. Kids today scare me.


yes, you CAN DO IT!


sadnebula
Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:40 pm
#5

Glad to see some old timers post. If people think this is bad they should have been in the Anarchy online beta and launch. wohooooo. I do miss Ac, The monthly updates and the player community made that a great social game. daoc had a very good p vs p system going on, but was rather dry. I hope to see this game do as well as the above. Well let's just see where things stand at the year mark.



Mondo Migill,

In through the Out door
fantoq
Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:04 pm
#6






PostingAsIntended wrote:

ID Software inc. revolutionized the online gaming world with Quake and their other FPS's. Their graphics engine was made by a handfull of kids, in an actualgarage no less.


Verante Interactive. futher revolutionized the online gaming world with Everquest. More than a handfull of people (but not much) and a nicer workspace than a garage. No way even close to the $$s spent that the poster thinks needs to be spent to create a success. (and i HATE it when people say that SOE made EQ. SOE BOUGHT EQ from VIover a yearafter release - the message boards at the time were like "uh oh")


What I am trying to say here is that it does not take a billion dollar company to create, design, and implement a billion dollar idea. Get that out of your heads right now. Kids today scare me.


yes, you CAN DO IT!







My point was looking forward, not back. For one, venture cap has dried up. When a company like SOE puts out a bid for an OC48, companies come running with contracts. If you, me, and six other people with a great idea do the same thing, we get some polite replies, accompanied by a four page financial application.


I'm not going to argue about creating ideas; been there, done that. And sold a few too. Implementation is a whole other thing in 2004 vs the 90's. Maybe I'm just gettin old Five, Ten years ago I spent a lot of time working on speculative stuff as did a lot of the people I worked with. Or maybe times have just changed.





fantoq
MCH
former Medic
App. Carbineer
Society of Interplanetary Mercenaries[SIM]/ stargate/ naboo
Aladine
Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:51 am
#7


Yea I have to agree, I have been playing online games since UO's release day, and so far Ultima Online was the only one I didn't feel was broken at the start (possibly because I was a newb for a long while in that game.) I have gone to DAOC, which I loved and the feedback that was given to the players from the Dev's was GREAT and eventually I left because the engame content was just not there, to SWG which I started at launch, played for 3 months then decided to revisit it after the bugs were rolled out, and then to FFXI, which I think would have been a great game for me if I had the time to powergame it but I didn't so it wasn't. Now I am back to SWG and I love most of the changes that have been made. The "buggy" feeling is gone and most of the content is good. I am having a great time at this and don't belive there will be any "SWG killer" as everyone seems to think. Now Iwon't be a hippocrit, I am really looking forward to trying WOW when it comes out, and probably will give that a go when it finally does get released, but that game has been pushed back for over 2 years now, and I'm not holding my breath for it. It makes me laugh whenever a new game comes out and everyone says its gonna kill the last one...if that were true where would EQ be now...or AC...or UO...those games were pioneers in the genra and they are going to remain standing for a long time, as is SWG.



Cryonax -- Novice Ranger, Medic, 4000 TKA, Master Rifleman
Mastered: Marksman, Tera Kasi Artist, Smuggler, Pistoleer, Commando, Swordsman, Rifleman, Chef
Next: Ranger then MCH
Member of Silverwolves
Sony's Direct line that patches you in to their switchboard/live operator : 858-577-3100 and their Fax: 858-577-3313
Page 1 of 1
Previous Next