Creature Handler Archive
Thread: When Pets Attack: Pets?
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blastcypher
Sat May 22, 2004 9:48 am
#1
DON'T HAVE A COMBAT PROFESSION IN UR TEMPLATE, BUT WANT TO PVP OR PVPP (pet-versus-players-pet)?
NEW COMMAND: /DUELPET
- BETTING
- BRAGGING RIGHTS
- FACTION
- CONTENT
- COOLNESS EFFECT
NEW ANIMATION OF CH PULLING A LEASHED PET FROM THEIR DATAPAD; THE PETS FEROCITY RATING WILL ATTRIBUTE HOW VIOLENT THE PET REACTS PRIOR TO BEING UNLEASHED INTO A DUEL.
- SHOULD THE LOSING PET LOSE DOUBLE VITALITY?
- ATTACK BONUS TO THE WINNING PET?
JLG88
Sat May 22, 2004 10:34 am
#2
only thing is a novice marksman could take down a 20k HAM 1k damage beast in this game.
blastcypher
Sat May 22, 2004 10:40 am
#3
ONLY PETS WOULD GET THE TEF. NO INTERVENTION OF PLAYERS AT ALL EXCEPT FOR SPAMMING /TELLPET COMMANDS. NO PLAYER AGRO. JUST PET-VERSUS-PET.
ZonJaiNezBA
Sat May 22, 2004 10:44 am
#4
blastcypher wrote:
DON'T HAVE A COMBAT PROFESSION IN UR TEMPLATE, BUT WANT TO PVP OR PVPP (pet-versus-players-pet)?
NEW COMMAND: /DUELPET
- BETTING
- BRAGGING RIGHTS
- FACTION
- CONTENT
- COOLNESS EFFECT
NEW ANIMATION OF CH PULLING A LEASHED PET FROM THEIR DATAPAD; THE PETS FEROCITY RATING WILL ATTRIBUTE HOW VIOLENT THE PET REACTS PRIOR TO BEING UNLEASHED INTO A DUEL.
- SHOULD THE LOSING PET LOSE DOUBLE VITALITY?
- ATTACK BONUS TO THE WINNING PET?
I like watching pets duke it out. My only problem is, if my pet is getting ready to go down, I don't want to see a vitality loss, due to the other pet being a Deathblower. I usually pull my pet out of the fight when the other one is down to about 300 on one bar, just so I don't cause a Deathblow, and so that my pet doesn't go over and attack the owner of the other pet.
I would like to have this command that would have a No Deathblow script in it, of course this could also be an agreeable prefight option.
We now need Creature Fighting Arenas. Lets see how many player cities put one of those up.
GTOfire
Sat May 22, 2004 10:55 am
#5
A concept that seems interesting at first glance (though somewhat harsh, I'd never pay to see animals fight for no reason other then to fight on command of someone who has no right to command)
A few notes, most importantly:
- your caps lock key is on, which automatically equals 0 credibility to the entire idea. Bad.
- there'd be very little tension. Player duels can be fun because they can have some tactics and often have very different styles. A pet's fighting ability is however purely determined by it's damage and resists, and there are only two specials available that can influence the fight at all.
Take those out of the picture for a moment and what we have is simply a fight between two animals that will be won 94% of the time by the pet with the best pet-HAM+resists to enemy-damage ratio. If you include specials in the mix, it won't take long before people figure out that KD and Intimidate will be the only ones worthy of use against other pets, and the whole concept is drowned to who has the best stats.
Honestly, if you can calculate beforehand which pet is going to win (and you will be able to, damage output, HAM and resists are all known), it won't be interesting. Nor will it be interesting to watch because the fighting animations of pets aren't that interesting to see over and over.
Points for effort, but I don't see it being interesting in this game for anyone, and I personally don't like the idea of animals fighting for no reason at all.
blastcypher
Sat May 22, 2004 11:19 am
#6
QUESTIONS:
- PLAYER CITIES HISTORICALLY HAVE LOW TURNOUT?
- ADDING TO CURRENT SWG CITIES WOULD BE A LARGE UPDATE?
- IS IT EVEN FEASIBLE FOR LARGE SCALE PVPP COMBAT?
YES: PROBABLY TOO FRACTURED
YES: MAYBE; BUT WOULD PRIMARILIY BE AN AESTETHIC UPDATE TO TATOINES MOS EISLEY OR ELSEWHERE.
YES: CONTENT. AND ENTERTAINMENT. ATTENDEES WOULD PAY FOR TICKETS TO ENJOY:
- COMPETITON
- SEATING WOULD BE ASSIGNED AND STATIC (REDUCES LAG)
- BETTING TERMINALS WOULD BE INSTALLED AT EACH SEAT
- MULTIPLE TYPES OF COMBAT (FREE-FOR-ALL, 2 VS 2, ETC)
CREATURES WOULD BECOME GLADIATORS!
blastcypher
Sat May 22, 2004 11:29 am
#8
GTOfire wrote:
A concept that seems interesting at first glance (though somewhat harsh, I'd never pay to see animals fight for no reason other then to fight on command of someone who has no right to command)
A few notes, most importantly:
- your caps lock key is on, which automatically equals 0 credibility to the entire idea. Bad.
Default fixed. Zero credibility seems bogus and harsh.
- there'd be very little tension. Player duels can be fun because they can have some tactics and often have very different styles. A pet's fighting ability is however purely determined by it's damage and resists, and there are only two specials available that can influence the fight at all.
Take those out of the picture for a moment and what we have is simply a fight between two animals that will be won 94% of the time by the pet with the best pet-HAM+resists to enemy-damage ratio. If you include specials in the mix, it won't take long before people figure out that KD and Intimidate will be the only ones worthy of use against other pets, and the whole concept is drowned to who has the best stats.
The request for creature handlers are becoming more tuned - too many to list all: pre nerf pets, armor, new specials, etc.
Honestly, if you can calculate beforehand which pet is going to win (and you will be able to, damage output, HAM and resists are all known), it won't be interesting. Nor will it be interesting to watch because the fighting animations of pets aren't that interesting to see over and over.
You can't make content viable for everyone, and I for one don't speak for what people would want to call entertainment but for those players that aren't creature handlers, and those with just a chronic gambling problem - lol - it may be the kind of content that they need.
Points for effort, but I don't see it being interesting in this game for anyone, and I personally don't like the idea of animals fighting for no reason at all.
GTOfire
Sat May 22, 2004 11:35 am
#9
Some more points:
- your caps lock is still on for no reason, which only drops the desire to answer seriously, but I'll try anyway.
- do you really think a lot of players would pay to see pets perform their attack animations for 47 seconds until the pet with the highest HAM and damage eventually wins, something everyone already knew from second zero onward?
- It would also be impossible to organize unless there'd be a single location in the entire galaxy. There aren't a lot of people in a player city at any time, often none at all. I doubt the chances of two CHs meeting there at the same time as a lot of other players who could come see the fight. It's simply not a big attraction that players would go out of their way to see, because all you would see is something you can see any time you pick a fight with a wild animal yourself.
- If you choose to reply, I must insist you switch off caps lock if you wish for me to read it at all. If not, do what you like, it's mostly a free world.
blastcypher
Sat May 22, 2004 11:44 am
#10
GTOfire wrote:
Some more points:
- your caps lock is still on for no reason, which only drops the desire to answer seriously, but I'll try anyway.
Caps are off, even made it a tad smaller for you to read :-)
- do you really think a lot of players would pay to see pets perform their attack animations for 47 seconds until the pet with the highest HAM and damage eventually wins, something everyone already knew from second zero onward?
Have you even read the ideas? Free-for-All, etc.
- It would also be impossible to organize unless there'd be a single location in the entire galaxy. There aren't a lot of people in a player city at any time, often none at all. I doubt the chances of two CHs meeting there at the same time as a lot of other players who could come see the fight. It's simply not a big attraction that players would go out of their way to see, because all you would see is something you can see any time you pick a fight with a wild animal yourself.
See above. I mentioned Mos Eisley. The idea is content (entertainment based)
- If you choose to reply, I must insist you switch off caps lock if you wish for me to read it at all. If not, do what you like, it's mostly a free world.
I think maybe - maybe only - your faith in the game is clouding your ability to see potential in it. I'm only taking that from the point that you're quiiting SWG June 22nd - in your signature. Leave the thread alone if you don't agree, I'm gonna be playing well after you leave.
blastcypher
Sat May 22, 2004 1:22 pm
#11
GTOfire wrote:
heh, thanks, adds professionalism to the entire idea.
Yes, I did read the ideas, and gave my comments that have not been proved wrong, be it by opinion or fact. The whole concept relies on pet vs pet combat being fun, and combat is only fun if it has one of the following:
- spectacular action
- tension
Tension: a fight between players I never met can be interesting, because I don't know beforehand who will win or what they'll do. There is a tension to the fight that'll keep you on the edge of your seat
Spectacular action: fights can be cool to watch if they're spectacular, be they epic fight scenes between massive armies or very cool Kung Fu moves. Ever see a pikeman with buffs swing his specials around? pretty impressive.
Do pet fights have any of this? nope. There's no spectacular action because an animal in SWG has about three attack animations and two fighting animals don't interact their animations. They simply run their attack animations until they die or win. They also don't have tension because when a 10K HAM 100 damage animal fights a 5K HAM 300 damage animal with the same resists, you already KNOW for sure that the latter will end up victorious with about 1/3 HAM remaining.
Until you posted this, I was losing faith in the idea. But you provoked another thought based on your "spectacular action" and "tension" analysis. Give this a try: The ability to sway combat in the favor on one creature by adding Crowd Bonuses, e.g. cheering of some sort. Even without it the odd stack to be somewhat random in a free-for-all. But creatures in the state that they are in now - varied and few attack animations, etc - need as much improvement as our taming commands. Side note: Ever try taming a Female Grasshound (baby) and having your toon say: "Good er.... boy" Lol, I always get bit. There are so many adjustments that will improve any game over time, but my premise is to fill in the content gap while WE wait to become somewhat viaable again in large scale pvp.
I'm perfectly open to things I haven't seen in my analysis. Do you think there's any reason a fight WOULD be interesting to look at that I failed to think of? by all means let me know because I am interested, otherwise I wouldn't bother to post at all.
You obviously believe watching e.g. one pet fight another pet would be interesting to see. You have not yet explained why, whereas I've tried to explain my reasons for not finding it interesting at all. My opinion is not universal of course, but I think the reasons I have are pretty widely spread. Counter them with your own to improve this concept.
The purpose here, I have to admit was for a betting economy. I can see betting in SWG, can't explain why per se - the betting machines that the Devs added to the game a while back never sparked much interest and I can only think of two locations that still have them. But betting, be it Pod Racing, creature duels, player duels as whole seems overwhelmingly different than grinding and killing, and by that: interesting in some subtle way.
--
Other then that, the caps lock comments were made because it really does decrease credibility. Spammers and newbies (not saying you're either, trying to explain the point) use caps lock to attract attention to what they have to say, because they believe it is the most important thing to say in the entire universe, nothing matters but their wonderful idea or merchandise. If an idea is good, it will attract the proper attention anyway as long as people read it. The community veterans have seen too many newbies think the world of their idea to take them seriously anymore and a lot of times just dismiss any caps-lock or l33t speech as unimportant. The first comment was made as advice to avoid this. Since the second post still had caps lock on, I made it a little sarcastic because it seems as if you had simply not bothered to even read the post before replying.
No offense intended, was just giving some advice.
I always see post-about-post comments get way out of hand and result in name calling, etc. etc. etc. You've shown professionalism regardless of this concept ever catching on or not. And for that, it'll suck to have you leave the game and you should really reconsider it.
----
Leave the thread if I don't agree? Well, I'll of course post this reply, but after that I'll do as you ask and leave the topic. One last note: isn't the point of proposing an idea on a 'discussion forum' to discuss the good and bad parts about it? To improve it with the input of others? It'd get pretty dull around here if every post was met only with "I like it" posts, and the people who had ideas for improvements would keep their mouths shut. I will however adhere to your request and leave this thread. Good luck with it.
GTOfire
Sun May 23, 2004 12:12 am
#12
heh, thanks, adds professionalism to the entire idea.
Yes, I did read the ideas, and gave my comments that have not been proved wrong, be it by opinion or fact. The whole concept relies on pet vs pet combat being fun, and combat is only fun if it has one of the following:
- spectacular action
- tension
Tension: a fight between players I never met can be interesting, because I don't know beforehand who will win or what they'll do. There is a tension to the fight that'll keep you on the edge of your seat
Spectacular action: fights can be cool to watch if they're spectacular, be they epic fight scenes between massive armies or very cool Kung Fu moves. Ever see a pikeman with buffs swing his specials around? pretty impressive.
Do pet fights have any of this? nope. There's no spectacular action because an animal in SWG has about three attack animations and two fighting animals don't interact their animations. They simply run their attack animations until they die or win. They also don't have tension because when a 10K HAM 100 damage animal fights a 5K HAM 300 damage animal with the same resists, you already KNOW for sure that the latter will end up victorious with about 1/3 HAM remaining.
I'm perfectly open to things I haven't seen in my analysis. Do you think there's any reason a fight WOULD be interesting to look at that I failed to think of? by all means let me know because I am interested, otherwise I wouldn't bother to post at all.
You obviously believe watching e.g. one pet fight another pet would be interesting to see. You have not yet explained why, whereas I've tried to explain my reasons for not finding it interesting at all. My opinion is not universal of course, but I think the reasons I have are pretty widely spread. Counter them with your own to improve this concept.
--
Other then that, the caps lock comments were made because it really does decrease credibility. Spammers and newbies (not saying you're either, trying to explain the point) use caps lock to attract attention to what they have to say, because they believe it is the most important thing to say in the entire universe, nothing matters but their wonderful idea or merchandise. If an idea is good, it will attract the proper attention anyway as long as people read it. The community veterans have seen too many newbies think the world of their idea to take them seriously anymore and a lot of times just dismiss any caps-lock or l33t speech as unimportant. The first comment was made as advice to avoid this. Since the second post still had caps lock on, I made it a little sarcastic because it seems as if you had simply not bothered to even read the post before replying.
No offense intended, was just giving some advice.
----
Leave the thread if I don't agree? Well, I'll of course post this reply, but after that I'll do as you ask and leave the topic. One last note: isn't the point of proposing an idea on a 'discussion forum' to discuss the good and bad parts about it? To improve it with the input of others? It'd get pretty dull around here if every post was met only with "I like it" posts, and the people who had ideas for improvements would keep their mouths shut. I will however adhere to your request and leave this thread. Good luck with it.
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