Creature Handler Archive
Thread: What is SOE's vision for Creature Handler?
Why can a non-CH store more pets then a novice CH?? It out there its happening at least on Flurry!!
If anything a Novice CH should get a +2 to storage!
Thanks.
Large HAM pets cannot hold aggro against ANY brawler, even a novice. The damage output by any pet is smaller than the damage output of any pure combat profession at the same level of training. The big advantage in PVE is the high HAM so the pet can tank - except it doesn't. What person, armored even, can take the damage put out by CL 70+ mobs long enough for a group to kill them? With knockdown nerfs and MCH nerfs there are fewer and fewer chances to actually battle the big things in the game.
So... Even if these pets could tank and hold the aggro from a full group of mixed players instead of letting the TKA take aggro, now you need three MCH to even try it. Except our pets are nerfed and putting them at risk to be the tank now virtually guarantees they will be permanently damaged from the encounter. In some combat situations the choice could be, for a CH, to let a player get incapped or DBed, or let a pet take it. Right now it actually makes more sense to let the player take it. Plus the single large pet out might just poof back to the datapad leaving the group to deal with all that aggro with no tank. I am far from master but I have had two pets poof to the datapad in 15 seconds in combat. CH is not group friendly and becomes less so every time you post to our boards. But that's OK. People want to group with us less and less because of stupid decisions that have already been made.
Our pets take permanent reduction in stats early in their career... or what used to be a career. Now, if it's a pet that can easily be found again it makes more sense to destroy and replace after five or fewer incaps.
Most of the incaps my pets have suffered have more to do with them warpping, refusing to return to me while chasing mobs into large aggro areas, having the other pet that should have been helping disappear to the datapad, etc.
Elsewhere you talk about reevaluating pet CLs. Homogenizing all pets to the same characteristics takes away the fun and benefit of spending long times out hunting that special baby. Why look for something new and unique when it will have the same charateristics as every other animal that will fill a particular number-defined slot since there is little opportunity to vary combinations with the rigid caps in place? But this is probably just as well as all those special babies have been nerfed to near non-existence.
We have two ways to make XP, to climb in skill: tame and train or combat. tame and train still works if you're doing worts or nunas. Combat still works barely. But there's no real point to it. All the best benefits are at the bottom of the skill set. This doesn't mean novice needs to be nerfed even more - getting two boxes of CHXP is hard enough with max CL 15 pets. It means there is no reward for advancing except putting the title over your head and it's a title that means virtually nothing.
Faction pets: anyone can field at least three faction pets. maybe more? Right now anyone can field 375 CL of faction pet at least. So what is the point of mastering CH? What is the point of putting skill points there at all?
If I want to play at raising pets I can go play Neopets for free. If I want to do it for real I do. I have dogs, cats and even a 14 foot python. I want to game with my friends, socialize, meet new people and confront challenges in the game that don't exist in RL. Mostly I play it to have fun. The ability to do this is going down the drain.
My BE razor cat was slightly below his wild-tamed counterparts before the patch. The wild-tamed ones all got a boost to their stats. The BE animals already tamed did not. Do I keep this cat who is now 1.7K behind one I could put in his slot? How many percentage points of his lower HAM do I let him lose before it becomes silly to hold onto him for sentimental reasons? That's disposable pets, for you.
And no, I do not go around getting my pets incapped all the time. I have died trying to prevent their deaths. I pick targets that do not death blow but there are dozens that say "killer: 0" that do, in fact, death blow. I have yelled the come command til my roommate even got tired of it as I watch a pet chase a medium hard target into a pack of certain death targets.
This gets less fun all the time.
Holocron wrote:
Let me pose you the question--what do you think should be the benefit of being a Master CH? What is it that is failing to give you a sense of reward there?
Maybe the Chief Creative Director should have some ideas of his own? (That aren't going to enrage the entire gaming community)
A MasterCH should be a Master Creature Handler. There should be a benefit from going from 4,4,0,4 to4,4,4,4 other than 1 extra dwarf nuna pet.
Let a Master CH control the most vicious creatures of any CH. No novice CH should be in control of the same pets as a Master CH. (translate that to MCH needs more CL levels) Let a Master CH control what special moves his creatures do. Let a Master CH keep his favorite pet from dying and being reduced in HAM stats every time. Let a Master CH roleplay and keep his same favorite pets throughout his entire career.
I could continue for pages on what I think a MCH should be able to do, but I feel that all my thoughts will fall on deaf ears and Holocron will continue to turn the CH class into his vision of a mikey mouse class.
Like you said, Raph,pets shouldn't be disposable tools like weapons. I agree.But then you impose pet HAM and vitality decay, to force us to constantly dispose ofand replaceour pets?
Whats failing to give me a sense of reward asa MCH?
- That my pets can die and permanently lose HAM stats and effectiveness. Why should I keep a pet or bother to feel attached to it if its going to wither away into nothingness? My pets are now disposable tools.
- That I have to sit for hours and hours waiting for my pet to regen after each battle.
- That if I choose to heal my pets instead of waiting, I have to expend thousands of credits in order to buy enough Stims.
- That I am forced to use points and train in Novice Medic or suffer immense downtime.
- That I have to constantly be looking for new babies just incase one of my pets were to die and become worthless.
- That I can't take my pets into PvP for fear of them getting deathblowed and dying forever.
- That I can't take my pets into PvE battle without fear of them getting incapped and becoming sub-standard worthless garbage.
- That I can't take my pets into PvE without suffering immense downtime to heal them.
- Downtime healing pets.
- Downtime healing pets.
- Downtime healing pets.
- Downtime calling pets over and over.
- Downtime /yelling for my pets to follow.
- Losing my beloved pets.
- Wasting skill points in medic.
- Wasting money to buy hundreds of stims.
- Running out of Datapad space to be able to grow pets for other people (non-ch, mounts)
- Not being able to provide "Tanks" for my groups anymore for fear of immense downtime, pet getting incapped and losing HAM permanently, and wasting money to buy hundreds of stims to heal my pets up again after each engagement.
Holocron wrote:(This is why store moved btw).
This isn't to minimize the things that we still need to do, mind you.
I thought the developer said that he moved it to make it easier for him for coding and that he was going to put it back on the radial menu?
I can't believe that some Creature Handlers responded to this thread saying that they were too *weak* in combat against other players. What a joke.
You can only get away saying things like that to a Dev because he's not in the game. Anyone who has played the game knows that he's right, that having a huge high HAM meat shield taking all your hits and dealing out damage is way more powerful of a tool than any other combat class has right now.
Samra Hael
Pistoleer / Scylla
KOTOR
I agree that they need a player tank class. I mean remember when Chewy ran up and stood in front of the blaster fire so Luke and Han could shoot back.....no I dont remember that either. What about when Han ran up and tackled all those guys so Chewy and Luke could be safe and fire back......Don't remember that either. Its is idiotic for this game to have melee tanking class, it should be droids and pets or give players more armor. I know I'm going to get flamed by some but a player tank class isn't very SW. Go back to EQ if you want a melee tank class.
Holocron, as a Master CH, i want to have 3 good (see the word, good?) pets that I use. Thats it.
I don't want to have 14 pets in my datapad that I have to cycle through while others are healing or waiting for replacements to be grown (becuase my adult pet got incapped and is now -500 HP)
I don't want tremendous downtime.
I don't want to have to find a perfectly balanced group of healers and damage dealers in order to have any fun in this game asa CH. If I wanted that, I can find it in any other MMOG on the market.
Nope we are NOT asking for three Rancors NOT even close!
Please be informed before you post. People posting who are not informed are the reason the Master Creature Handler is not a master anymore.
We are asking for 30 more cl points.
That's two rancors. or even 20 more. then we could at least have three pets with about 6k hams. You see we don't want 3 uber pets. we just want three pets we can work with. three pets was the masters perk. just like every other master has a perk for being a master.
They say CH was not intended to be a combat class but most of our commands are for battle. Our two speical moves (like mind shot or action shot) are for combat. They say we weren't meant to be an eliete profession. well i am looking at a manual that came with my game that say Creature Handlers are just that.
Devs and players alike need to look at what we are asking for and not assume we are all 13 year old kids who want to own everything. I am 24.
Right now as a Master CH my pet does on avarage 300 dmg every 2 seconds. I do about 160 every 3.4 secs.
this is over powered?
All the Master Creature Handlers want (well most of us) is 20 or 30 more points added onto the Master's CL cap to allow us to use 3 5k pets. That's Considerably lower then haveing three rancors.
We woudl like our pets to listen to the commands we do have. they don't right now. we'd like to see the bugs that have been in game since beta fixed. (maybe they should borrow eq's code pets follow their owners with np there.
So pease before you judge anyone be sure you know the facts.
thanks
Holo, I am a Weaponsmith, I have no combat skills at all, I am also a Wook, so I figured that CH was the best way to protect myself in the wilds. I can master ART / CH / WS and have 4 points left over. So no matter what I do I will never be able to augment my pets fighting abilities. Having a good pet was the only way I could go out into the wilds and fight at all. Otherwise I am just stuck at home, crafting. I find the strait up pistol/rifle/carbine fights really boring, its just spam a given special until the target is dead. CH should be able to use a pet as a primary combat tool, but you make it impossible because you cannot get CHXP unless you help your pet fight. So you FORCE us to be a pistoleer or a rifleman and a CH because we can't advance CH otherwise.
As to your postsaying that you want to reduce pet power becuase combat/CH players can greatly increase their pets power through their own skill, that is NO different than aOvert IMP Master BH with an ATST. In fact there is no Master CH alive that could effectivly match that combo in PVE(except a Overt IMP Master CH with his own ATST and pet, but if you had an ATST, why would you need pets too?).
PVP is a totally separate issue though and should be treated as such, I don't PVP becuase it is the domain of the immature, and the spiteful; not all, but most are. I wan't a pet for PVE alone so I can go out and hunt with my PA mates and still help out, even though I am really a crafter at heart. Heck, I really want it mostly for protection. Surveying can be very dangerous.
What you need to do is design a way for pets to work in both PVE and PVP, pets stats should be different depending on what they are doing. Full power for PVE, becuase you are not hurting or effecting anyone else, and nerfed when in PVP, becuase a put can seriously unbalance PVP combat. Pets need things like AR attacks, and unique special attacks, that damage specific HAM bars, and these attacks need to be callable by the CH so he can have his pet work over different areas depending on the mobs weaknesses.
As, is there is no RP for CH, my pet at 1/1/1/2 skill can do one trick and fight, and that's all, and now you are saying that you don't want pets to fight, so that leaves me with taking pets out and being a one trick circus performer.
Let us play the game the way WE want to play it, make things work for all types of players, don't just balance things based on one aspect of the game; like you are by basing CH pets on the Combat/CH class combo, not all CHhave a secondarycombat classes, it just appears that way because they have to be to advance in CH.
Malgor wrote:
This statement in itself shows that you, Holocron, do not know anything about the elite combat professions and pets. Any pet I can own can be killed by any elite combat player.
Holocron wrote:
Berratus, because the game is classless, the assumption is that you pick up multiple skills, multiple professions. Making an elite creature handler equivalent to an elite combat profession would mean that every combatant would need to be a creature handler, because the added benefit of having an NPC tank is enormous. Some of the pets you control are by themselves as powerful as an elite combat player, and that's not counting you, the CH, into the combat equation.
I guess all I am saying is that it's not a one to one comparison.
Agreed. Holocron, you admitted it yourself and it is plainly obvious. How can someone in your position attempt to balance the game, or this class, without having first BEEN a Master of each class?
I'm speechless. I always assumed that Holocron knew everything about his own game.
Holocron, you are not qualified to be making CH design decisions.
"A total lack of communication from the devs stating their overall goal for the CH class.
A near total lack of presence on these boards to respond to the myriad of questions/complaints."
I'm sorry, but you get no pity from me! The only post by a dev on the SL forum is the one saying "Welcome the new Squad Leader correspondent" one. That's IT! No response to our issues, the dev's won't even respond to our correspondent. And to top it all off, we're the most useless profession in the entire game! Nerfed to uselessness? We're already there and have been since day one. Anyway, I'm not trolling, I'm actually a CH myself.
Holocron wrote:
OK, sorry, I had a meeting there for a bit.
So I hear ya. My takeaways form the thread here are:
- We screwed up the gurreck change by not compensating for the armor reduction at the same time as we made the reduction
- We are overestimating the value of the armor (we may have to agree to disagree on this one--but if we can compensate for the armor in other ways, will that be sufficient?)
- You aren't competitive in combat compared to combat classes--and the issue isn't so much being an even match, but but in the ballpark. We're overstimating the value of the pets, basically.
- There's a lot of bugs with pathfinding, pets getting autostored, etc, that we need to address.
I that a fair summation?
No, that is 4 out of hundreds of issues. 3 of which were newly introduced TODAY. That is not a fair summation.