Creature Handler Archive

It's not the number of kills but rather the very tiny and miniscule chance of learning an ability from a kill. That would still qualify as random and still fit with it being related to kills and not the xp gained. If one person is hunting under their level and another at or above, it would also explain why some people constantly learn skills in 0-2 rollovers while others take 3-5.

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Seiryuu wrote:
It's not the number of kills but rather the very tiny and miniscule chance of learning an ability from a kill. That would still qualify as random and still fit with it being related to kills and not the xp gained. If one person is hunting under their level and another at or above, it would also explain why some people constantly learn skills in 0-2 rollovers while others take 3-5.

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A thought just occured to me.

Let's look at the big picture, shall we?

The developers have been on a kick for some time now of prolonging play time to accomplish goals. Because the skill grind is the only content this game has, they need to find ways to prolong it.

Let's look a this from the perspecive of CH as a profession, overall.

If you're pitting your pet against things at their level, not yours as a CH, you're going to prolong the overall grind of CH. If I pit a flewt that's got hamstring attack L1 or fleetfooted L1 against hermit spiders, my level 20 novice CH isn't going to get much in the way of CH XP (or weapons XP in support of the pet), but the flewt is fighting at its own level. The overall grind is prolonged, asopposed to me being in a grinding group on Dantooine with level 80s using the flewt and both of us hitting the XP caps. Remember, CH is now three grinds in one: the CH XP grind, the pet skill learning grind, and the grind for the pets themselves to open ability slots and obtaing training points.

So, if the grind is broken up in a time consumed sense, this fits in with the dev strategy of keeping you into the game for a longer time.

That is possible. Unfortunately we don't know if they are playing psychological games ("If everyone has to do this, then it will take this much longer...") or if they expect us to play one way and based their system on that ("By fighting things at their CL, pets will grow at this rate and so it usually takes five growth cycles to learn a skill.").

It could be a combination of a small percentage chance to learn a skill per kill, a modifier for xp from the kill, and/or a modifier for number of growth cycles. Since people are learning skills with only a few kills, or with low xp numbers, or by killing a massive number of things that give 1 xp, I think it is safe to say that as long as the pet gains 1 xp has a chance of teaching you a skill.

If that is the case, then it seems most efficient to kill CL 1 things as fast as possible. Any other modifiers simply do not provide enough of a bonus to overcome the difference in time it takes to kill a gubbur over a CL 80 creature. At least not solo. Massive groups where all you do is send the pet from one creature to the next might compare, and even then killing CL 1 stuff may be faster on average.

No matter what combination of factors is really the trigger, it takes too bloody long to learn from a pet you have no intention of keeping.

Just wanted to add to your research:

CL40ish mature female snorbal with Vigorous Health L1 - learned in 620 kills

CL30ish savage humbaba with Beastly Constitution L1 - learned in 548 kills

CL44ish male langlatch hatchling with Bleeding Attack L1 - learned in 923 kills

CL39 mature hanadak with Beastly Constitution L2 - learned in 115 kills

CL44 thune with Vigorous Health L2 - learned in 188 kills

CL40 grassland voritor tracker with Bleeding Attack L2 - learned in 438 kills

All of these petstaught metheir abilities without being "rolled over" at all (as in,I sat out and killed CL1-2 tatooine yard trash and got 1xp/kill to determine how many kills they'd gotten) and all started off as newly tamed pets with 0 xp before I started this experiment.

Message Edited by Amethyst-Moonshadow on 09-02-2005 12:40 AM

Using the kill yard trash technique, I have yet to havea pet teach me it's ability in under 1000 kills (in 7 attempts using solely this method). I have been present (at keyboard) in all of my ability openings so this is not oversight due to macroing for hours unattended. Using the xp method, I have had my pets teach me their ability within less than 100 kills in about 30 out of about 50 attempts. Currently I use a mixtureboth techniques: Tame pet and go to yard trash for about 30 minutes (a few hundred kills) then go kill mobs for experience until ability learned. Typically, if I am effecient with my time I can learn an ability within 1.5 hours. Generally L1 abilities are learned much quicker than L2/3 abilities. I currently have several L3 abilities that after several hours of trash and xp grinding remain unlearned.

Bottom line: I don't believe any 1 method is best. Trash killing is fine if you need to leave the computer for extended periods of time or want to read a book. IMO a combination of both is most efficient.

Just to add fuel to the fire:

My Thune (Herd Leader, I think) is still refusing to teach me Vigorous Health L2 after 1600 yard trash kills...

i guess the probability for learning an ability is mainly dependent on its gained XP (rollover and training XP). but the roll if to learn or not to learn is done every time your pet gains XP. so u can increase your chances by either training your pet to get a higher probability for success or by triggering the learning check more often (kill lots of low level creatures).

its like throwing 3 dice to get a 18 (3x6). u can either increase the posibilty on the throw (success with 17, 16, ...) or u can throw lots of times to get the 18. in both cases u are still dependent on random results - which will give u everything from sudden success upto endless throws of failure.

I started the 1xp kills today and breezed through 3 L2 abilities...

my merek harvestor baby is at 1556 kills without teaching me Lightning Reflexes L2

*** UPDATE ***

2200 Kills, no ability

Message Edited by Phuzakie on 09-02-2005 06:58 PM

More research to add:

CL69 shear mite with Vigorous Health L3 - learned in 867 kills

(and again, these are 1xp yard trash kills only so I can keep track of how many kills it gets. This pet was never "rolled over" in xp/maturity during this experiment)

Here's another datapoint for you:

Sio tamed a flewt (CL 4) tonight (after two critical fails he's a bare novice but wearing a +25 taming hat) with Fleet Footed L1.

12 kills, one turnover, flewt gave up the skill, the kills were four rabid shaupauts (CL 7) and eight nightspiders (CL 4)

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Amethyst-Moonshadow wrote:

Oh, and I found the secret way to learning abilities fast when it comes to these 1xp kills. Go clean your bathroom. I go clean the shower- BAM! learned an ability. Next ability was seeming to take forever so I went to clean the toilet and BAM! learned an ability. So if you're having trouble, I highly suggest some toilet bowl cleaner and a brush... Keep smiling all!

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ROFLMAO!

Crazy results for myself with a "nuna apocalypse" yielding 6 skills in a couple ofhours- anything from 87 kills for a vesp (CL 41), 227 for a Male Snorbal (CL54) to 1600+ and still no gain for a Choku (CL64).

In general from what I've noticed and others have posted, the chance of ability gain per kill goes down as creature level increases - but since it's a purely random roll a CL 70 critter can give up it's skill on the first roll and a CL 3 on the 10,000 (although those are really unlikely).

CL though does seem to be the controlling factor, although I also noticed that "stocking up" on XP seemed to increase the probabilties slightly.

Best tactic seems to be:

For a beast that you solely want the special off but don't want to keep - kill yard trash only.

For "keepers" train XP as normal - since you'll want those slots and will learn the ability after its rolled over a few times anyway.

Message Edited by GFoyle on 09-03-2005 01:17 PM

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Phuzakie wrote:

I started the 1xp kills today and breezed through 3 L2 abilities...

my merek harvestor baby is at 1556 kills without teaching me Lightning Reflexes L2

*** UPDATE ***

2200 Kills, no ability

Message Edited by Phuzakie on 09-02-2005 06:58 PM

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602 kills with my CL4 Ikopi from Rori and I still haven't learned Lightning Reflexes (L1).