Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Discussion Topic: Know your Role
Vertexon wrote:
Excellent.I'm really impressed by the quality of the responses I'm reading here. These are going to take me a while to process, but keep in mind that Devs do lurk through these forums on their own (as you can see from RuneSabre's post the other day).
Too bad he basically said nothing good. Out of his 20 or so posts that day to a number of "State of profession...." threads (the only posts he's ever made according to search) he basically told us the least. From his post on our thread, I got the impression that we are remaining castrated from the December nerf.
Anyways Vertexon, thanks for your work as our correspondent. It's just too bad that SOE feels a melee type player can standtoe to toeto a wild rancor better than another rancor that we have tamed and raised, when said rancor should eat the player alive. Or that a lone commando can wipe out a whole lair of rancors before we could even take out a single rancor. Sorry if my post is off topic, but I just felt I needed to vent.
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
- Waaaay back before beta, no one ever spoke about call levels and such. I thought it'd be insanely cool to have a Krayt Dragon as a close friend. That's when I originally picked the profession. In beta, I never even made it to the class, took me a month to master scout alone. Nowadays I was always going to go for it at some point, but then something happened in-game that made me want it asap: I was sampling and a pack of mottled wrix's approached me. Instead of attacking, they simply took a rest around me. I didn't have maskscent on. I desperately wanted to tame a mottled wrix, and went for CH.
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
None really. Mate of mine who is a TKA with very good composite armour can stand a rancor longer then any of my pets can, wild or BEd. Same goes for damage, my gurreck does 610-620, that same friend does 800 base due to having large unarmed damage mods. The special attacks on any of my pets never work. i can call the command all I want, they'll just keep fighting as they wish. The one role we're good at that's listed here is the role exclusive to our profession in the first place: trainers. Not really fair to say we do it better then anyone else, because we're the only ones that can do it.
The main highlight we can do better then most people is up the mission level by grouping with a combo of 3 very good pets.
As for non-combat, the only point of a pet is to stand there and look pretty, which it does better then anything
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
Not every TKA has very good armour of course. Generally speaking I first call out the target, then order the pets to be sent in by all the CHs we have while the melee guys start running toward it. Then I order the fire at will and everyone does their thing. This means the pets will be the tanks while the TKAs don't have to worry that much about having incredible armour. Of course it only works that way if a group listens to my Master Squad Leader commands, not everyone cares about the group leader position meaning something
A way to improve it is tough. In combat, a Master TKA with good armour is better in EVERY way. Sometimes not by much, but still better. He can tank longer, do more damage and do it faster. The main additions I'd like to see are ways to let your pet be more of an animal rather then a machine doing what it's told. E.g. telling it to hunt for food to make it scout the nearby surroundings for creatures it can likely defeat and then kill them. Or having it have a regeneration rate when it lies down, also applying to poison and disease and bleeds and such. Much better then storing it in your pack, then pulling it out again.
Last possible addition is a Scout pet. Prolly never happen, but here's the idea: You take a piece of meat, bone and hide, taken from the animal you want to find. You let your pet smell it (a carnivore NOT BE'd but from the Wild,with 'agressive', 'stalker' and 'killer' will be best at this. A BE'd herbivore will be useless) and they will attempt to track down the closest animal of that kind. Of course not every creature has a different combo of hide/bone/meat, so it may not find what you want to, but it's a start.
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
The pets .. I'm fond of having a companion when I'm running around solo.
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
I think the role varies by the situation and the pet. Last night I had an absolute blast with a couple friends of mine. One of the guys had a habit of attraction agro from the pickets. Don't ask me why they liked him. I set my plains tusk cat (not the best of pets but not too bad .. I'm only 1212CH) to follow and guard him. It worked great! When he was taking too much damage, he could backout and let the pet tank for a bit.
Unbuffed, my pet still tanks better .. especially some of my BE pets .. than an un-buffed player.
We have the potential to do all those things you mentioned above and more. We can solo, add to a group by tanking or debuffs, work to sell and train pets .... you name it.
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
see above
There have recently been a number of threads talking about what the "role" of the Creature Handler currently is in-game. I'd very much like to get more thoughts on this, so I'm creating this thread to focus the discussion. Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
What appealed to me to Creatuer handler was the concept of going out in the wild and taming and training a pet.
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in thegame world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
Right now I feel CH's still provide a tank as well as an extra damage dealer. With the ability to command the pets to do specials ( if that is working) we can be statue effect inflicters as well. I believe we should be mostly geared towards a combatant class.
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
We should provide a decent tank. The whole creature change really messed up the wild animals tho. IMO they should of added armour piercing statistics to Higher DL creatures. They should of also made ferocity an effective stat. In real life ferioucious animals even when tamed do challange thier handlers every now and then, The higher the ferocity number the more likely it will disobey and if really high could have a possibilty of attacking. Of course the higher the CH the more likely he caoul reduce the chances. But thats just my opinion.
-Ossisth
Now i get to rant at him a while.
Looks like hes letting you off the hook.
/smile
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theCreature Handler role in combat?
A Creature Handler's role in combat should be both. Some tameables primarily for tanking. Some tameables primarily for damage dealing.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
It all depends on the tameables. You can't really give a CH combat mods outside of their pets.
What offensive abilities?
Some tameables for pure damage, less tanking. Up some damage here. Low some kinetic resists there. Add light armor piercing for some tameables, you have a damage dealer then.
What defensive abilities?
Some tameables for pure tanking. Low damage, high HAM, high resist pets, you have a tank.A Stand alone Creature Handler is only as good as the pet he/she tames, and this is hardly taken into account.
What unique abilities?
Here is an idea I have for further Creature Handler progression. Pet specializations. Say I choose a Rancor as my specialized pet. Here is a basic idea of how it would work
- Novice Rancor Trainer
Large reduction in HAM costs for the /enragepets and /emboldenpets commands
- Rancor Agressiveness Training
Anatural boost in the Rancors damage from 540-550 to 660-680
/berserk2 and /intimidate2 commands for pet
- Advanced Rancor Empathy
/sentry command for pet. "Pet will guard target to the death disallowing anything within 20m's of target"
Instead of a pet vitality loss, the Creature Handler will have the option of taking SEVERE wounds to himself in exchange of preventing the loss of 1 vitality point to his pet.
- Advanced Rancor Conditioning
+40 Pet Terrain Negotiation
20% HAM increase
- Master Rancor Handler
/trick 3 command healing all mind and wound damage by 90%
/trick 4 command healing all mind and wound damage by 100% curing any disease or poison as well
/breed command Allowing your Rancor to breed with another Rancorproducing a baby of that particular species for the Creature Handler to tame
(must be at a lair of the same species)
/trainmount command allowing the Creature Handler to also make his specialized combatpet into a mount only he can use and ride.
I think you get the idea and hope you like it half as much as I do.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Like I said. All depends on the pets. A Creature Handler would have the option to use either his tank pets or his damage dealing pets, depending on what he/she has tamed.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Providing breeding services for Bio Engineers. Providing non-combat uses to non-Ch's, such as rescue pets. (a pet that drags incapped PC's or delivers medicine). Entertainer pets that are trained to "sing" along or do tricks with their entertainer master, giving them bonuses to healing. So many ideas are already on the CH forum.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Giving CH's the option to tame tanking pets as well as damage dealing pets will give them a more broad role in a group. CH's already depend on BE's for stims and more often now, pets. I am not sure how else a CH could interact or depend on others.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
How about Giving the larger tameables (Tortons, Maklocs, Fambaas) an ability to carry shield generators to assist in battlefield fights. Or the ability for the same large tameables to do area kinetic damage as they run through a group of enemies in battlefield encounters. This could be a command reserved only for the large tameables such as Tortons, Kimogila's, Fambaas and such. A /stampede command used only for battlefield encounters.
Currently in a PvP situation, pets are just not viable. They die much to quickly and can be ignored for several reasons.
1. Pet damage output only consists of kinetic.
2. They have no armor piercing.
3. They do not hit hard enough.
4. They do not hit fast enough.
5. They usually stop attacking when the CH is killed, they do not protect to the death as they should for theirmasters.
Thus the reasonspetscan and are ignored in a PvPbattle.
Request For Comments:
The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.
Thanks for reading. I can't wait to hear what you think of these ideas...
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
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1) First the importance of CH was the fact that as a wookie I am vunerable to basically everything. Hand to hand against a vynock is suicide because wookies are so nerfed from what they are in the movies. So it started as a way to survive. Then I love my pets, loved taming, Now I am Master CH and I don't tame diddly because I like the BE's better for doing what I need them to do.
2) Role of a CH, hmmmm after long hard thinking, comic relief. Yup definetly comic relief. If it wasn't for my novice commando flame 4 I am totally useless to any group with a TKA in it. Oh and the invention of TKA just made musicians extinct and the medic profession is teetering on collapse as well because of the TKA's ability to heal themselves. But inthe game I am comic relief.
3) Role in a group, get the missions higher. Bring out my level 65 Razor Cat and then the group gets higher missions, we did level 100 torturs last night. My contribution, harvesting the meat and healing the melee characters, great fun. NOT
What we need? To get back to where we have pets that can tank, that we can control as master CH high high level pets or give us clothes that allow us to do that. As a wookie, give me some bloody armor please, what do you DEV's have against wookies anyway? Even some different clothes would be nice.
Vertexon wrote:
IMPORTANT NOTE: Thunderheart has now started a "Know your Role" style feedback thread for each profession in the In Concept forum. I will still be reading through and compiling all responses here. But please do go post in that thread (even if you've already posted here). You have until April to post there, so take your time andgive responsesof the super high quality I'm seeing here, and we'll all benefit greatly.
I-C 1-6 Combat Roles; Creature Handler
There have recently been a number of threads talking about what the "role" of the Creature Handler currently is in-game. I'd very much like to get more thoughts on this, so I'm creating this thread to focus the discussion. Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
Message Edited by Vertexon on 01-20-2004 04:06 PM
1. Holocron made me do it, plain and simple. I hated Creature Handling (the profession not the people that used it). First holo said Carbineer and i put that off.. but i did it and actually found aspects of it appealing (status changes at 60m). Second holo said Smuggler... so easy. The CH... i almost said "screw jedi"...but instead i dropped smuggler and trained in Novice Scout. I was a Master Ranger at one time(by choice) so i knew all about Scout and got what i needed very quickly. Hit Novice CH and trained a nuna... i was hooked.
2. A role.. hmm. Ima TKM, i like to solo. In PVE my BE'ed Gurrek with knockdown and dizzy strike helps out a lot. He gets me out of tight spots and has saved my butt more than once already. To me, CH is perfect for me since i like to be out in the field alone most of the time.
3. When grouped up, ive found that my weaker high ham pets can tank for newer/weaker players without taking all the xp away. If i were to tank id suck the xp dry with my basic attacks.
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
I luve Rl pets, so this comes natural. CH provides a more predictable battle field and the ability to keep it less chaotic. I use my pets to protect my friends, even sometimes giving them friend so that non combatants have a lil helper they could normally not have. I will never drop CH ever again. On one server I dropped it and regreted it when I opened up my dat pad to see all my pets I 'grew' up with. Truely missed them since in many cases were more dependable than humans (lol). I liked pets so much, I created a second account for bio engineer so I could create them.
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
I am a tank. My pets keep us safe from danger when normally you would die over and over. Spending most time cloning is not my idea of 'fun'. Pets do no dmg, I do the damage. Specials and what not are nice but in the PvE arena they have real no great effects. In PvP pets are a write off. If you like your pets like me (and actually care...yes care) for them you would not use them in PvP. They die in about 10 seconds. If that.
And RP is also important. Hey lookit that cute kitty hehe. Pets look cool period.
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point
CHs are the rock that many stand on to excell and win many PvE fights. Instead of kiting things like some non chs using walls and other obstacles we are there on the front line. I use 10x amount of money each battle than any other combat class with stims and pet stims alone. Bottom line, CH is fun. How can this be bad?
Safe to say if CH was removed or nerfed to kingdom come, I don't think I would play SWG again. That would be a sad day when nerf herders win.
P-o-k-e comment is totally unfair and wrong.
Here's statement that's equally stupid:
Remove TKA, too much like Tekken.
HAH!
, and with the way a Smuggler fights, it helps. 1.) Ever since I heard that Galaxies was going to have a Creature Handler profession I knew thats what I wanted to be. My favorite part in any of the Star Wars was the Rancor at Jabbas palace. Someday I will be the level I can tamea rancor, lol, but thats what first excited me
2.) I see a creature handler as a tank, salesman and Role-Player. Sitting in a town I can find enjoyment bringing out my Vermook or Malkloc and seeing peoples reactions. Plus as a fighter they are invaluable in taking damage
3.) In a group they should be the cornerstone. They are the ones that keep the creature from attacking their teammates. They spend the money and resources on Stims for their pets so it can protect the others. It is a very valuable proffesion in a group
I climbed the Exploration and Hunting ladders into Creature Handling because of how unique a role this profession plays in Galaxies. It is an obvious offshoot to the "Star Wars" movies themselves as you find all manner of creatures there on Tatooine and throughout - even the infamous Rancor tamed and kept as a pet by the Boar folk and "sicked" on Like skywalker although this Rancor had little respect for its' trainers, gorging on them with first opportunity.
Thus I wanted to enter the CH profession toexperience Galaxies with constant companionship and pets make great companions, to have a partner in combat, and as a means to obtain creatures; something I saw Novice and Master CHs doing and as a newbie thought it was kewl. These were all the ancillary interests that lead me into the CH profession and now that I am lvl 1 across the board grinding through lvl 2, I see there is much more to CH than that.
Creatures are valuable aids and I have run across quite a few non-CHs who place value on having a pet if not for the ancillary reasons then to have a mount or item to give to a novice. I have recently morphed in creature harvesting, finding the little one, taming and training for the xp, and then selling, giving away, or releasing lvl 10 and below. Lvl 10 and below are valuable to non-CHs and thus could fetch a nice price. I have sold a rill baby, a lesser dew baby, sold a Kaadu mount, and have more to sell/give.
In a hunting group, I have seen many CHs have the pets grind on the gimp which give anyone who needs to farm xp an opportunity to do so. This has allowed me, with a degree of success, to grind on a enemy not able to do as much damage on the target as a large animal which means I am less prone to be incapped/slain. However, this doesn't work well on very large creatures like a Rancor that I remember whacking me in one swipe as I pounded unarmed on it.
As a Novice CH, I have not had the opportunity to experience all that I can in this profession and I look forward to exploring more of this profession.