Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Patch 20 Notes: All fixes aimed primarily at creature AI
Indene wrote:
Well it has been said that the DEVs don't want *ANYONE* to be able to solo anymore. maybe they are getting close but it is really hard to group with all the social areas (cantina, starport etc) empty now.
-Indene-
Yet the reason given for taking BF out of the game is that they don't want to "force" interaction between combat players and entertainers with a 'negative'.
Right.
Oceania is at war with Eurasia. Oceania has ALWAYS been at war with Eurasia.
I think this is FINALLY something they've fixed for the CH profession (not only for the CH prof, but for all pets).
You can say what you want, but it was an exploit like any other exploit in the game.
But the difference was, that nobody complained about it, because that exploit was an advantage for EVERY char in the game,
and no single char got a disadvantage of this exploit.
So the devs didn't pay a great attention to it in the past.
But if you think of it, it's kinda impossible what we could do before this publish.
I mean, there's no way a mob can know that a creature which is 70 metres away from it is gonna attack it,
so it's not normal that that mob immediately went aggro on your pet when you gave him the attack command from such a long distance.
The thing I HAVE problems with, is that they first fix this issue, and not all the other ones.
I mean come one, from all the exploits and bugs there are in the game, this one was the last on our list we wanted to get solved.
There are issues with the CH prof that really NEED to be fixed.
But this issue wasn't a real necessity.
Set a ranged pet on the lair and it will not give up. Not when you call it to stop - not when you are being attacked by EVERY mob in that lair - which you will be by the time the little beast has finished hitting the lair. The pet is fixated on the lair. I tried this on a lair of much lower cl than me for safety - good thing I did. The melee pet will do the same but if you drag it away to you, at least there is a chance it cant do damage on the lair any more. Of course - it is useless to you now, while all in the lair attack you and you are busy - damn it if the little beast doesn't sneak back to the lair and start again! Getting you some more little surprises out to play with. A stick and a hornets nest come to mind at this point.
Now - if the devs had fixed CH and given us back the ability to command attack, call off pets, redirect attack - which was an ability we used to have before the CU - then removing our pulling ability wouldn't matter quite so much. BUT they HAVENT fixed anything. Sadly - I don't think they ever will, or that they even know how to.
Just as we find our role in a group and are valued again - that role is removed. I had adapted to the low place I had in the brave new swg - but I am not sure my character or my creds are needed any more by soe.
I'm not sure people realy understand what the patch is supposed to do. The lair thing shouldn't be so much of an issue. Sending your pets to attack a lair directly while there are lots of creatures runing around is only usefull if you have some kind of strong area attack and you want to get all the mobs gathered together, and also only good if your pet can tank two lair spawns worth of creatures silmutaniously. I used to do this when grenade grinding and when pets tanked a bit better against many smaller creatures. Generaly many of the mobs would agro on me eventualy from the grenade damage but whatever is attacking the lair directly tends to get priority.
So, what should be happening now is as follows. You send yourpet to attack the lair. The creatures all attack your pet because he is making them angry for attacking the lair (basicaly all creatures are "social" with respect to their lair). They also get a flag telling them to attack you, but unless you are attacking the lair or them, they will save you until after your pet goes down. For a little while there was a bug such that they would not turn on you after your pet goes down.
I think what folks are thinking is that when the pet attacks the lair all the mobs come running for you. I'm pretty sure it won't work that way unless you are attacking the lair as well, since hitting the lair generates so much "hate".
If you folks just stay out of range when you pet engages neither of these agro changes should result in mobs gunning for you directly. I actualy found the broken system annoying. I generaly start combat well out of range of the MOB but as soon as I sick my pet on something it comes running towards me and I have to go run off somewhere. It was a bug, and they fixed it. I know it could be awfuly handy but the game was never intended to work that way. I've been pulling with pets for ages and it was not a problem under the old/new system.
DaBudo2 wrote:
However, it's nearly a game breaking issue for our profession thatthe entire lairwill now attack the CH when the pet attacks the lair. Well, maybe I'm a bit guilty of hyperbole, but this is going to prove to be a serious detriment to CH. I have to wonder if we will be able to play solo when attacking higher level lairs. I don't mean lairs that are higher CL than our character, but lairs simply at or near our own level (assuming CL 80). Will we be able tosurvive at allunless we're in a group? I don't see how it's possible if we're going to get ganged by the entire lair every time we send in our pets to attack. Seriously, anyone have any strategies for taking on 3 or more mobs in the CL 78-CL 81 range at the same time? Or how about NPCs with ranged weapons?
SioBabble wrote:
I'm missing something here.
Why would you ever send a pet in to attack the lair? Unless you're hellbent on waking up in a cloning center, why turn a non-social group of critters social on you?
Well if you don't have any other offensive profs, you have no choice but sending you're pet to attack the lair
I was just in game and i found what oddwan said is what happened to me. I'm building xp so I usually let the pet get in as many hits as he can on the lair. Now that they fixed the intermittant attack thing the darn pet won't stop attacking. can't call it off either.I ran away and the pet followed me and just stood there, wouldn't attack the other mobs either. I see why now.
On a happy note the P Darts work fine. Let me repeat that. the P darts work fine. They actually slow the mobs. I can kill a mob 2 levels above me now and not get incapped unless I make a mistake. [ you don't know how fumble fingered i am 
I'm have not tried pulling yet I was more concerned with slowing the mobs as a solo player. will play with that next.
I seem to be getting better xp now in the CH line, at the rate I was going I figured I'd make MCH summer of 08.
Spir4 wrote:
SioBabble wrote:
I'm missing something here.
Why would you ever send a pet in to attack the lair? Unless you're hellbent on waking up in a cloning center, why turn a non-social group of critters social on you?
Well if you don't have any other offensive profs, you have no choice but sending you're pet to attack the lair
Spir4 wrote:
SioBabble wrote:
I'm missing something here.
Why would you ever send a pet in to attack the lair? Unless you're hellbent on waking up in a cloning center, why turn a non-social group of critters social on you?
Well if you don't have any other offensive profs, you have no choice but sending you're pet to attack the lair
That is an interesting question. Attacking a lair directly has never been an effective strategy unless a toon is with a powerful group or is much more powerful than the mob type.
If they are that much more powerful, why is it even an issue? If they are not, why are they trying to commit suicide?
I used to wait until all had spawned then let the pet do his thing to the lair but i was gatting excruiatingly low xp. Because I was dealing way more more damage than the petsI can handle with my CH level.Sooo I started letting him attack the lair right from the beginning which was fine before this patch,I could control the situation and get a little more xp.
Now it's changed and I learned that it's changed. What may be CH101 for some may not be the same for others.
At the end of the day - what we have now is the kind of creature handling to be found in most of the MORPG. A pet that backs you up a bit. SWG had much more uniqueness in its initial concept of a creature handler profession. It broke new ground - it was actually quite awesome, and beta showed me how wonderful the profession could be. To be able to tame so many creatures - train them so many commands, have the pets RESPOND to those commands..........we were a great profession.
I have remained a ch from the first week of live - never thought to change ever. I will still not change but when I see what is happening to the once beautiful profession we had, then my only option left is to retire from game.
Galacium wrote:
I'm not sure people realy understand what the patch is supposed to do. The lair thing shouldn't be so much of an issue. Sending your pets to attack a lair directly while there are lots of creatures runing around is only usefull if you have some kind of strong area attack and you want to get all the mobs gathered together, and also only good if your pet can tank two lair spawns worth of creatures silmutaniously. I used to do this when grenade grinding and when pets tanked a bit better against many smaller creatures. Generaly many of the mobs would agro on me eventualy from the grenade damage but whatever is attacking the lair directly tends to get priority.
So, what should be happening now is as follows. You send yourpet to attack the lair. The creatures all attack your pet because he is making them angry for attacking the lair (basicaly all creatures are "social" with respect to their lair). They also get a flag telling them to attack you, but unless you are attacking the lair or them, they will save you until after your pet goes down. For a little while there was a bug such that they would not turn on you after your pet goes down.
Actually, what I posted about mobs ignoring the creature and hitting you wasnt what i think will happen, its whatactualkly happens on test center.
If your pet fights a social mob, and aggros other creatures, any creature with aggro on the pet that has NOT been hit by it will simply ignore the pet and attack the CH.
That has many consequences for crafters using droids as well as CH and non ch pets.
The issue isnt the pets attacking a lair getting aggro, its aggro the pet gains through adds which wont then attack the pet, but the CH. On a picket lair, that can be 5 or 6 female pickets at level 82 or whatever, and the did that to me from 60m away, without me firing a shot, and with mask scent up.
I think what folks are thinking is that when the pet attacks the lair all the mobs come running for you. I'm pretty sure it won't work that way unless you are attacking the lair as well, since hitting the lair generates so much "hate".
Unfortunatley that is exactly what happens with any social or aggro mobs you send a pet to attack.
If you folks just stay out of range when you pet engages neither of these agro changes should result in mobs gunning for you directly. I actualy found the broken system annoying. I generaly start combat well out of range of the MOB but as soon as I sick my pet on something it comes running towards me and I have to go run off somewhere. It was a bug, and they fixed it. I know it could be awfuly handy but the game was never intended to work that way. I've been pulling with pets for ages and it was not a problem under the old/new system.
sadly you are incorrect.
DaBudo2 wrote:
However, it's nearly a game breaking issue for our profession thatthe entire lairwill now attack the CH when the pet attacks the lair. Well, maybe I'm a bit guilty of hyperbole, but this is going to prove to be a serious detriment to CH. I have to wonder if we will be able to play solo when attacking higher level lairs. I don't mean lairs that are higher CL than our character, but lairs simply at or near our own level (assuming CL 80). Will we be able tosurvive at allunless we're in a group? I don't see how it's possible if we're going to get ganged by the entire lair every time we send in our pets to attack. Seriously, anyone have any strategies for taking on 3 or more mobs in the CL 78-CL 81 range at the same time? Or how about NPCs with ranged weapons?
valetman wrote:
Actually, what I posted about mobs ignoring the creature and hitting you wasnt what i think will happen, its whatactualkly happens on test center.
If your pet fights a social mob, and aggros other creatures, any creature with aggro on the pet that has NOT been hit by it will simply ignore the pet and attack the CH.
That has many consequences for crafters using droids as well as CH and non ch pets.
The issue isnt the pets attacking a lair getting aggro, its aggro the pet gains through adds which wont then attack the pet, but the CH. On a picket lair, that can be 5 or 6 female pickets at level 82 or whatever, and the did that to me from 60m away, without me firing a shot, and with mask scent up.