Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Argh, no respect, no respect at all..
BlindTyldak
Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:44 am
#15
fett3041 wrote:
Greetings noble Creature Handlers. I am the one to blame. Yes, I finally came to add my point of view.
As a former Handler, myself, I know the joy of showing off a new, freshly tamed pet. I was even a Bio-Engineer at the same time (still have pets available for sale if you're interested, Raw), so I was enjoying all kinds of fun with my freshly created monsters. However, if at anytime, having my pets with me was an inconvenience to others, I would store it, or command it to stay elsewhere (for growth).
I would like to make one point very clear. We were not asking for the pet to be stored. We just asked that it wait outside for it's master. Heh, at one point, I even offered to organize a pet show and combat tournament for him, if only he would display his prize outside.
You made a very good point as far as lag. The pet (when sitting as it was most of the time) does not create more lag than the average AFK entertainer (another thing we're trying to discourage from Theed), or the new, novelty effects droids. However, both of these have a place in the cantina, while the pets do not. You may find, however, that most entertainers are quickly getting over the novelty of the droids, and not using them. And they will always store it, if causing problems for somebody else. It's just courtesy.
Yes, we as entertainers, decided to strike. We are striving to clean up the image of the cantinas that has suffered horribly since the hologrind started. We decided, that if you could not do us the courtesy, the favor, to have your pet wait outside, then we simply would not play. Yes, this angered many patrons. Some, who thought we were being stuck up and stubborn, some who thought the pet had no place inside. But, just as you have the right to do what you want to do ingame (within reason), so do we. You choose to ignore our pleas to take the pet out, and we choose not to perform or buff for that duration.
Before the hologrind, the cantina was a great place to have fun. There were real people there. You got to know everyone who came through. There were certain things that were just understood about cantina ettiquite: no pets, no blaster use, no harrassment of the performers. Unfortunately, since the grind, the cantinas have become a chaotic free-for-all, which drove most professional entertainers out to private cantinas. With the approaching end of grinding, more and more professionals are moving back to the cities, and trying to restore the quality of the cantina. We're striving to make themplaces where you can always find a live healer, a buffer (both sets), a friend, an enjoyable time. We just ask for your cooperation, so that we may continue to provide this service to YOU, our patrons.
Thank you for your time.
As a former entertainer speaking here, you are very, VERY much off the mark. There is no rule against people bringing their pets into cantinas if it does not interfere with your show, there's no reason for them not to, and you simply have no true argument for your actions other than you are trying to forceYOUR own rules upon other players for your own enjoyment. The cantinas in the NPC cities do not belong to the entertainers, they belong to EVERYBODY to use as they see fit as long as they do not disrupt anyone else. Personally I think you are an hideous embarassment to the Entertainer class for not catering to your patrons because you felt instead like being snobs. If you don't like him bring his pets into a public cantina and sitting them out of the way, then get the hell out of the public cantina and go start your own.
PoilDeCarotte
Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:52 am
#16
Ok, just a last thing from me.
This has nothing to do with respect.
They did not insult you in fact. They just asked you to take your pet away. Right?
Did they ask it politely? Or were they rude?
But you, I think you are not really respectful.
If they asked you in a kind manner to take them away, you could respect their wish and take it away... no?
Either I missed something in your posts or you are not showing anymore respect that they do.
BlindTyldak
Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:04 am
#17
If he had innitially gone in there with a full-grown rancor and parked it right on the edge of the dance floor where it could overlap them, and they had simply asked him to removie it because it was causing a legitimate interference to their entertaining, that would be a different thing entirely. But as he had gone in there with a creature that came up to his shoulder and had gotten it out of their way, and they asked him to remove it on grounds that the entertainers themselves admit is not legitimate, and then took actions that affected his gameplay and that of others because of rules that they wanted to enstate on public property, that places the responsibility for tollerance on the shoulders of the entertainers, not the creature handler.
Rawanuk
Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:12 am
#18
Indeed, when I started the Rancor was barely at my own height. Right now its slightly twice, so I probabally wont bring it in again without petting it to sit(and if I cant get it to sit in back, seeing as how Rancors sometimes wont sit) I'll just bring in my Hanadak with me instead. My Mature Hanadak Rock Smasher is a great dancer, so I don't see why the Ents would mind 
PoilDeCarotte
Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:16 am
#19
BlindTyldak wrote:
If he had innitially gone in there with a full-grown rancor and parked it right on the edge of the dance floor where it could overlap them, and they had simply asked him to removie it because it was causing a legitimate interference to their entertaining, that would be a different thing entirely. But as he had gone in there with a creature that came up to his shoulder and had gotten it out of their way, and they asked him to remove it on grounds that the entertainers themselves admit is not legitimate, and then took actions that affected his gameplay and that of others because of rules that they wanted to enstate on public property, that places the responsibility for tollerance on the shoulders of the entertainers, not the creature handler.
Ok... I have to admit your right... like I said, I missed something here 
my fault.
Anyway, not a big deal really. Some people don't know what to do with their time
Cheers, have fun and that's all 
Rawanuk
Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:18 am
#20
Sure, they asked at first but at first they were claiming it was a lag issue. Once the whole lag thing was "Ok, we get that" amung everybody, they demanded it be removed becasue it was to put it supposely "An eyesore". After that the only people who asked to have it removed were teh people who were being forced to because the ents weren't allowing people to get healed or to play.
If my pet is to the side or in back, what does it matter? You act as if you speak for all ents, and yet, during the whole thing other ents took out pets or pet mine etc etc. I don't care about shows, I just feel like walking into my Cantina with a pet.
If my pet is to the side or in back, what does it matter? You act as if you speak for all ents, and yet, during the whole thing other ents took out pets or pet mine etc etc. I don't care about shows, I just feel like walking into my Cantina with a pet.
Wallach1
Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:59 am
#21
this can be rectified in one small simple phrase....
*ahem*
"Wait for the combat rebalance."
/ducks
hehehe...Wong thread.
BlindTyldak
Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:03 am
#22
Alright, that's it . . . . . .
/bonk /bonk /bonk /bonk /bonk
Wallach1
Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:16 am
#24
BlindTyldak wrote:
Alright, that's it . . . . . .
/bonk /bonk/bonk /bonk /bonk
OUCH!! SORRY!!! OUCH!! I SAID I WAS SOR...OUCH!!! DAMMIT! STOP I....OUCH!! THAT HURTS YOU KNOW!!! OUCH!!!!
hehehe....I had to make the comment. break up the seriousness...lol
Matsubaa
Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:32 pm
#25
I never seem to have a problem with buildings, only with NPCs and players. An empty city doesn't lag me nearly so much as one packed with storm troopers and hundreds of players. Likewise for a Cantina. It stutters while it loads everybody into the world and then picks up again.
MuOne wrote:
Well - here's my knowledge of lag.
Its the structures and only the structures, that is the buildings in the Cities that causes the lag. It takes so long to draw the stupid muti-story buildings inthe cities, most of which I might add are useless as they have no function. Players of course add to it because of the numbers, but you only lag while they are being drawn, a once only process, and once drawn no longer cause lag.
In cantinas, especially in coronet walking through the door causes lots of lag, but once all the players are drawn you can move freely again, also when leaving there is lag as the surrounding buildings are redrawn.
I hope this helps in the anti-ch bickering arguement.
Khyriana
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:50 am
#26
I can see both sides of the matter, and to some extent, agree with both of them. I think there are several contributing factors to the frustration and annoyance on the part of some entertainers with regard to how things go currently... not the least of which has been the influx of people who have little or no concern for how their actions impact those who make their 'life' in the cantinas.
So far as I can tell, there are several factions of roleplayingand each has a different effect upon what reaction you will receive:
The 'real world' roleplayerbelieves that, to the extent possible, if it is a social rule in the real world, it should be one in the game world as well. This player believes that the social rules promote community and consideration of others and that is something they find value in within the game world.
The 'consistancy in play' roleplayer couldn't care less if your pet is in the cantina, but finds itVERY importantthat the area in whichthey areworking remains clear of interference so people coming into the cantina in need of healing or buffing can see them, see thatthey are there andworking, and actually be able to targetthem and watch or listen as needed. With a large pet or many pets scattered across the open floor near the stairs, this is often difficult and in some cases, impossible.
I happen tofall into the 'consistancy in play' category myself. I acknowledge that it is, in fact, a game... and part of the enjoyment OF a game is that you do not have to remember and mind everysocial rule that exists in the real world -- and certainly not those that are designed more for designation of who is socially 'acceptable' and who is not... since that branch of etiquette is irrelevant in the context of the cantina... ALL visitors are potential customers and the bridge I burn today may well lead to the place I wish to reach tomorrow.
In the grand scheme of things, your pet being in the cantina is not going to ruin my day. But it is worth noting that there are those for whom it will, and, should you be someone who cares whether or not your choices impact the enjoyment of others, it is something to be considered.
To you, specifically, Rawanuk -- when I met you in Theed, you were very considerate. You completely understood what concerns I had and were gracious enough to keep the 'work area' clear. I appreciated that, and you... just as I appreciate everyone who comes to the cantina and is aware enough on a social level to understand that it exists for entertainers to perform a service and that, by definition and nature, that service is the primary activity that should occur within it.
I have no issue whatever with people operating private cantinas and setting whatever rule they wish upon them... be it 'no pets allowed' to 'you must not sit on the floor' to 'you must not be on stage unless you're a performer' to pretty much whatever... as a private venue, those who own it have every right to set forth the rules and no one can fault or blame them, as if the rules they desire are unpopular, being empty will be the natural result.
What I do have issue with is either sidetrying to browbeat the other into accepting their view as the 'only' and 'proper' one. An MMO game is not about forcing people to play your way, it is about finding a common ground where, through communication and mutual respect and yes, some compromise, everyone can enjoy it... together.
Someone said to me yesterday that they 'wouldn't perform in Theed anymore' because they could not control the actions of other people and make them play as they wished. This made me sad, because in all honesty, the only thing that told me was that this person's insistance on having it 'their way' was more important than anything else.
For myself, I have an honest (albeit perhaps optimistic) belief that, given the chance, most people will behave considerately... and that belief was upheld yesterday by those Creature Handlers who spent the day with me in Theed Cantina. Caldorsk, DiaCa (sp), Rawanuk, and others whose names escape me... without exception, every last one of them were considerate enough to keep their pets beind the work area, and when they encroached on someone who was performing (accidently standing on them or within their range of animation) were gracious enough to move them or even store them.
This does not speak to me of people who do not care or are not considerate. It says precisely the opposite. There is no reason that, in a public cantina, both cannot co-exist. And the simple reality is -- neither side can force the other to do other than as they will... hence the best policy is to seek understanding and common ground... unless of course, you enjoy being annoyed and frustrated. To each their own, I suppose.