Creature Handler Archive
Thread: You can't tame that revisited
Ok, let me straighten this out.
A bugged creature of any type will have the following information:
Vicious: no
Stalker: no
Tamable: no
CL: (con level)
Attack: 0
Defense: 0
Damage: 0 - 0
That is what I see with my +100, whatever that is worth, to creature knowledge.
I am thinking it is more tied with the Hate system being implemented, and the CL issue with pets on live servers which resulted in them being CL 1(0).
Grambacca wrote:
I personally think that the "you can't tame that" bug is tied to the changes they made recently.
What changed with Pub22? They added all the new specials AND they changed babies so they spawn as Baby size still BUT they have the same CL as a full grown adult of their species and CL.
That's the cause of the problem as I see it. Because they spawn as a Baby that has full grown CL level I think there is some random bit of code still floating around that sees "oh...full CL. Well this can't be tamable then because it's an adult!" and so the system tags it as "tameable=no" even though then critter is baby size and named a baby, doesn't matter, it looks at CL and tags it as an adult essentially.
Grambacca wrote:I personally think that the "you can't tame that" bug is tied to the changes they made recently.
What changed with Pub22? They added all the new specials AND they changed babies so they spawn as Baby size still BUT they have the same CL as a full grown adult of their species and CL.
That's the cause of the problem as I see it. Because they spawn as a Baby that has full grown CL level I think there is some random bit of code still floating around that sees "oh...full CL. Well this can't be tamable then because it's an adult!" and so the system tags it as "tameable=no" even though then critter is baby size and named a baby, doesn't matter, it looks at CL and tags it as an adult essentially.
I'm pretty sure we all agree its the baby thats bugged now, and that the bug was introduced with the "lovin" the CH's finally got.
This is interesting interesting, the spawn code has to be generating thigns correctly, or else the size, CL or (baby) markings would be wrong. Something else must be taking a look at the babies and tagging them as tamable=no after they are spawned. Perhaps something in the world process that keeps track of all the mobile objects and keeps the position updated untill they de-spawn. If something like that is going on, babies near heavily trafficed areas such as the old starter cities (Mos Eisley, Moenia, Theed et al) should have a higher chance of being bugged than something way out in the boondocks. This would be true simply because the mob has existed longer in the world than the wild spawn baby you may find.
My limited playtime supports this if memory serves, my bugged creatures were outside Moenia, within 1000m for certain while outside my player city had NO bugged creatures (most people dont hunt around there anymore due to the mission terminals only granting level 50 missions so its essentially a low traffic area outside city limits)
The first time I ever ran into it I was running around outside Kaadaara (or however that city is spelled
) taming everything in site and ran into the problem repeatedly with different mobs, at the time the prevailing theory on the issue on these boards was that I, the player, was bugged, not the babies, and everything I was hitting out there seemed to be un-tamable. That area is bounty hunter centeral with the new BH loots, so there was a constant stream of players coming and going from that field, which would prevent the mobs from de-spawning and getting reset. That kinda fits with my conjecture that there is some world maintenance code that keeps everything in line, and proably doesn't know about the CH changes. Just something to keep in mind, and if anyone gets a bugged baby out in the boondocks please post it here so I have the data to consider. I'm making it my mission to understand this problem so that we can meet with the Devs and get this baby issue cleared up.
It isn't just babies. I have encountered an entire lair of Corellian Butterflies that I couldn't tame, sample, trap, and harvest.
Speculation points to these areas being in no-build zones, but it is purely speculation.
The bug occurs in 2 different forms, both of which can be seen by Examining the baby in question (or even by examining other critters around it in the 2nd form). I use Examine a LOT, and even have it bound to a mouse button now. We all know that Examining usually shows us the data for Aggressive, Stalker, Tamable, Hide Type, Meat Type, and Combat Difficulty. (Note that CH's with additional scout/ranger skills will see more data fields due to their creature knowledge modifiers.) On rare can't-tame-that occasions, this examine data will show the usual fields with a 'Tamable: No', where there should clearly be a Yes for all tamable babies. But far more often for me, the examine data for a bugged non-tamable spawn does NOT show those 3 fields at all, nor does it show data for hide or meat types. It only shows the Combat Difficulty information: *** CritterName is no match for you. I now call this the 'No Data' bug, and it represents probably 95% or more of the can't-tame-that problems I've had.
When a baby has the No Data bug, all the adults in its spawn almost always have the No Data bug too... examining the adults shows nothing but Combat Difficulty also. And more often than not, other spawns of completely different critters in the surrounding area will also be showing No Data. Every once in a while, a baby in such an area WILL decide to show data on examining him, and will come up with the 1st case of the bug, actually showing 'Tamable: No'.
By examining nearby critters as you move slowly away from the area where they are bugged, you will eventually start seeing non-bugged spawns again, ones which show their normal examine data, including 'Tamable: Yes'. This may happen as close as 25m away from the bugged area, or it may take a few hundred meters. It seems not to be a matter of distance, as much as whether you're in a particular 'block' of land, for lack of a better word. Crossing an invisible border or seam into the next block seems to be the key, rather than moving a set distance.
Once a critter -- either baby or adult -- is No Data bugged, it will STAY bugged until you go far enough away to force a respawn of that lair/spawn. (Usually 500-600m, although it's sometimes less depending on density of spawns nearby.) Just moving away a bit until you start seeing some non-bugged critters (as above) will NOT fix the ones that are already bugged, you have to make them respawn.
After going away and coming back to force a respawn, some critters which were No Data bugged MAY respawn fine, coming back unbugged, showing their data, and tamable! This was the part that freaked me out, because it seems to depend on MY position in some way also, not just the spawn's location. I was working a triangle of 3 waypointed spawns in the Corellia Riverlands, each several hundred meters apart. One of these spawns WAS bugged to start with, showing No Data and with the babies being untamable. What I came to realize while surfing these 3 spots was, when I approached this spawn from one direction (say, coming from point #2 to point #3) it would ALWAYS be bugged, every time it respawned. BUT, when I approached the same spawn from the OTHER direction (coming from point #1 to point #3 let's say) it would almost always be okay -- not bugged, and I could tame any babies just fine. There was clearly a 'good side' and a 'bad side' from which to approach that spot. And if I would come in slowly from the good side, and especially if I would stop about 50m away and Examine the newly-spawned babies before I got to them, they would be fine. I tested this many, many times to confirm how it was working, because it really didn't make much sense to me. But the findings were very much repeatable, both with that triangle of spawns and later with 2 other groups of spawns I was working.
MCH - Tarquinas
Message Edited by ZevZirathis on 08-29-2005 05:29 PM
Grambacca wrote:
I personally think that the "you can't tame that" bug is tied to the changes they made recently.
What changed with Pub22? They added all the new specials AND they changed babies so they spawn as Baby size still BUT they have the same CL as a full grown adult of their species and CL.
That's the cause of the problem as I see it. Because they spawn as a Baby that has full grown CL level I think there is some random bit of code still floating around that sees "oh...full CL. Well this can't be tamable then because it's an adult!" and so the system tags it as "tameable=no" even though then critter is baby size and named a baby, doesn't matter, it looks at CL and tags it as an adult essentially.
This is not a new issue. It has been around for a number of months. It started surfacing regularly on these forums around May this year.
As a matter of fact, I did a search and read this: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=136275&query.id=0#M136275
This bug may actually be as old as the game itself.
I personally think that the "you can't tame that" bug is tied to the changes they made recently.
What changed with Pub22? They added all the new specials AND they changed babies so they spawn as Baby size still BUT they have the same CL as a full grown adult of their species and CL.
That's the cause of the problem as I see it. Because they spawn as a Baby that has full grown CL level I think there is some random bit of code still floating around that sees "oh...full CL. Well this can't be tamable then because it's an adult!" and so the system tags it as "tameable=no" even though then critter is baby size and named a baby, doesn't matter, it looks at CL and tags it as an adult essentially.