Creature Handler Archive

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MrHawat wrote:

It's funny, a lot of ppl become BE's to MAKE pets, and not just any pets, but the best pets they know how to make. For what reason? So that a CH would find the critter to be worth purchasing and a valued ally--then we find out that some ppl in the CH community resent us for it.

What the some CH's resent, myself included, is that the BE community got every creature we had Nerffed to hell and back to make your profession viable. Once that was done the BE community got the DE revamp nerfed to hell before it was even released to keep you viable. The dev's release two new mounts. Guess what? Only a BE can provide them to non-ch. They were conviently made one or two CL above 10. While I have not been in the BE forum for a while, I did read it extensively prior, during, and after these changes. I quit reading when the no CH's around to tame/train/sell to post started. I fully expected the dev's to start forcing people to become and stay CH's to help you out or to force CH's stop what they are doing and tame/train BE pets. Luckily, the dev's found a new FOTM and moved on.

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Bracci wrote:

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MrHawat wrote:

It's funny, a lot of ppl become BE's to MAKE pets, and not just any pets, but the best pets they know how to make. For what reason? So that a CH would find the critter to be worth purchasing and a valued ally--then we find out that some ppl in the CH community resent us for it.

What the some CH's resent, myself included, is that the BE community got every creature we had Nerffed to hell and back to make your profession viable. Once that was done the BE community got the DE revamp nerfed to hell before it was even released to keep you viable. The dev's release two new mounts. Guess what? Only a BE can provide them to non-ch. They were conviently made one or two CL above 10. While I have not been in the BE forum for a while, I did read it extensively prior, during, and after these changes. I quit reading when the no CH's around to tame/train/sell to post started. I fully expected the dev's to start forcing people to become and stay CH's to help you out or to force CH's stop what they are doing and tame/train BE pets. Luckily, the dev's found a new FOTM and moved on.

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You must be on crack. We do not "need" CHs to stay viable. It's funny you have this resentment towards BEs, when almost every BE I've met has said that CHs are on the top of their list of people to work for.

I fail to see how it is the BE community's fault that pets got nerfed. We simply work within the rules that the dev's have established. You slight us for trying to make the best product possible? With regards to the DE revamp, I do believe that it was the CH *and* BE community that got it scaled back to reasonable levels, just to keep BOTH our professions actually worth the skill points.

I'm sorry you wish you could remove us from the equation regarding cu pas and banthas. The reason they did that was probably because they are still trying to add inter-profession dependence to the game (you *are* still needed for the training).

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Actually, there is a lot of Truth to MrHawat's statement. If you were to go back through the posts in the nerf timehistory and the BE revamp history you could find plenty enough to see where this perception comes from.

Long time CH's are a bit "testy" about somethings, as you well know, and some BE's didn't really help matters by coming on like God's gift to CH's. Not that we CH's are a really forgiving lot latelly.

Although things should be looking up for relations between BEs and CHs now, BEs are too busy making tailor/chef additives to worry about us that much, and the older bitter CH's are dropping like flies!

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Bracci wrote:

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BlindTyldak wrote:

Yes, you can never blame the players for things like this . . . but as it stands we are way too dependant on them as it is.

Take another combat class, like a rifleman.

1.) They can depend on themselves to find the loot drops for better weapons (in theory, I hear they are not very great)

2.) The Weaponsmith makes their armor

3.) The Doctor makes their stims/buffs

4.) The Armorsmith makes their armor

5.) The Tailor makes their clothes.

For their class to be effective, they have five different groups to depend on. Now lets look at the CH, forgetting whatever other class they might have.

1.) The BE makes the best pets, so much better that they can be several times more effective than wild animals of the same level, sometimes up to or exceeding 10x the HAM. They also make the strictly useful pets, such as the only desirable non-CH mounts.

2.) The BE makes the medicine for the pets.

3.) The BE makes the parts for the clothes certain species need for maximum effectiveness.

This is a very bad concentration for one class to be dependant on another class. We should be concentrating on finding ways to break that dependance and aim for some effectiveness on our own.

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So you're saying you don't need buffs, armor, clothing, or food? One person makes the weapons for the Rifleman. The Weaponsmith. BEs cannot make the clothing, so the tailor is not out of the equation. Armorsmiths still need tailors to make components for the armor, so the tailor again is not out of the equation. You ask for ways to break the "dependence" of the Ch on the BE, and I claim there is NO dependence. It is optional.

You have a pet with low vitality. You CHOOSE to use a vitality pack. You COULD just go tame another.
You want a particular set of resists on a pet. You CHOOSE to purchase a BE'd pet. You don't NEED the particular stats, you want them.
You want to heal your pet. You CHOOSE to use a pet stim pack. You COULD use regular stimpacks, and get some medic skills.
You want to have a better chance at taming a creature. You CHOOSE to purchase clothing that will give you the bonuses. You don't have to.

BE's have 3 different lines of crafting. The first is tailor tissues, only usable by tailors (and I suppose *maybe* some artisans, but I have yet to have an artisan buy any tissues, chef or tailor from my vendor). The second is chef tissues, only usable by chefs (see above note). The final is Pets/Pet Stims. Most of our pets are made for CH (CL>10, as I'm sure you're aware), and they are very hard to make (just you try to be a BE for a week, let me know if you can make a custom order pet come out exactly as was requested). The pets that are CL<10 are typically bugged by the invalid pet screen, and if they're not they're either so uber they'll get nerfed soon or so ridiculously low in stats that a CH tamed pet is better. The Pet Stims/Vitality Packs are our last creation of note, and any that are worth a damn (cs, ds) require pretty hard to acquire resources (fish, and dath insect meat - of which you are completely dependent upon the resource rotation to obtain). BE's are completely dependent upon three classes in the game for income, and two classes for the materials to make their items (scout, ranger, since virtually ALL items we can make require meat, hide, and/or bone).

You are not dependent upon us. You *choose* to utilize our services. When you figure out the difference you'll see where your logic is flawed.

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Okay first of all, I WAS a BE. *waves* I know better than most that it's really pretty pathetic how much the BE puts back into the market that other professions need as compared to others. So whatever you do, don't EVEN go onto a "you try it" bit, because I HAVE.

Instead you've shown me that you really have no clue about the BE effect on CH at all, do you?

We can CHOOSE to use a vitality pack, or we can BUY another pet from you, or WAIT up to ten days for the pet to grow. If you're depending on that animals because you have to, oh, I don't know, use it? That's not much of a choice.

You say we want a pet with specific resists but its a choice? Not really. Wild pets don't have any type of decent resists. If we want to be effective, we DON'T have a choice.

Using pet stims or taking skills? Okay, fair enough . . . if we weren't dependant on you for the other things as well.

A better chance at taming a creature? Try the ONLY chance at taming what the devs have turned our high-end content into. A CH on its own is useless at anything else, so we go rare hunting. Guess what? Unless you're a wookiee, you need taming clothes for the biggies. Or will you say its our CHOICE not to completely reroll our characters into a new avatar?

Now lets also add in our usefulness for anything other than hunting. CH was always intended to be a dual profession in that sense; we're the only combat/trade profession in which we aquire our weapons at (supposedly) no cost and sell them to others. Thing is, that's gone for us now. Now if we want to be in the pet trade, we have to go for a BE for that too, because no one wants wild animals as they are so useless. No one will buy them at any sort of a profit . . . . at all, I've tried, because they can go pick one up off a vendor and have their bud toss a tame on it. There's no reason to pay us for them tamed and trained.

Then you confuse the character with the class. I have a non-combat CH; her pets are her character. She doesn't need buffs, she doesn't need armor, clothing is optional, and she doesn't need food. She DOES need pet stims, she DOES need effective animals in the wild, and if she wasn't a wookiee she WOULD need those taming segments.

We get enough from BE's as it is. You're having NO problem making money, so all I'm saying is there's NO reason to make us even more dependant on you.

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Bracci wrote:

You must be on crack. We do not "need" CHs to stay viable. It's funny you have this resentment towards BEs, when almost every BE I've met has said that CHs are on the top of their list of people to work for.

I fail to see how it is the BE community's fault that pets got nerfed. We simply work within the rules that the dev's have established. You slight us for trying to make the best product possible? With regards to the DE revamp, I do believe that it was the CH *and* BE community that got it scaled back to reasonable levels, just to keep BOTH our professions actually worth the skill points.

I'm sorry you wish you could remove us from the equation regarding cu pas and banthas. The reason they did that was probably because they are still trying to add inter-profession dependence to the game (you *are* still needed for the training).

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BlindTyldak wrote:

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Bracci wrote:

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BlindTyldak wrote:

Yes, you can never blame the players for things like this . . . but as it stands we are way too dependant on them as it is.

Take another combat class, like a rifleman.

1.) They can depend on themselves to find the loot drops for better weapons (in theory, I hear they are not very great)

2.) The Weaponsmith makes their armor

3.) The Doctor makes their stims/buffs

4.) The Armorsmith makes their armor

5.) The Tailor makes their clothes.

For their class to be effective, they have five different groups to depend on. Now lets look at the CH, forgetting whatever other class they might have.

1.) The BE makes the best pets, so much better that they can be several times more effective than wild animals of the same level, sometimes up to or exceeding 10x the HAM. They also make the strictly useful pets, such as the only desirable non-CH mounts.

2.) The BE makes the medicine for the pets.

3.) The BE makes the parts for the clothes certain species need for maximum effectiveness.

This is a very bad concentration for one class to be dependant on another class. We should be concentrating on finding ways to break that dependance and aim for some effectiveness on our own.

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So you're saying you don't need buffs, armor, clothing, or food? One person makes the weapons for the Rifleman. The Weaponsmith. BEs cannot make the clothing, so the tailor is not out of the equation. Armorsmiths still need tailors to make components for the armor, so the tailor again is not out of the equation. You ask for ways to break the "dependence" of the Ch on the BE, and I claim there is NO dependence. It is optional.

You have a pet with low vitality. You CHOOSE to use a vitality pack. You COULD just go tame another.
You want a particular set of resists on a pet. You CHOOSE to purchase a BE'd pet. You don't NEED the particular stats, you want them.
You want to heal your pet. You CHOOSE to use a pet stim pack. You COULD use regular stimpacks, and get some medic skills.
You want to have a better chance at taming a creature. You CHOOSE to purchase clothing that will give you the bonuses. You don't have to.

BE's have 3 different lines of crafting. The first is tailor tissues, only usable by tailors (and I suppose *maybe* some artisans, but I have yet to have an artisan buy any tissues, chef or tailor from my vendor). The second is chef tissues, only usable by chefs (see above note). The final is Pets/Pet Stims. Most of our pets are made for CH (CL>10, as I'm sure you're aware), and they are very hard to make (just you try to be a BE for a week, let me know if you can make a custom order pet come out exactly as was requested). The pets that are CL<10 are typically bugged by the invalid pet screen, and if they're not they're either so uber they'll get nerfed soon or so ridiculously low in stats that a CH tamed pet is better. The Pet Stims/Vitality Packs are our last creation of note, and any that are worth a damn (cs, ds) require pretty hard to acquire resources (fish, and dath insect meat - of which you are completely dependent upon the resource rotation to obtain). BE's are completely dependent upon three classes in the game for income, and two classes for the materials to make their items (scout, ranger, since virtually ALL items we can make require meat, hide, and/or bone).

You are not dependent upon us. You *choose* to utilize our services. When you figure out the difference you'll see where your logic is flawed.

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Okay first of all, I WAS a BE. *waves* I know better than most that it's really pretty pathetic how much the BE puts back into the market that other professions need as compared to others. So whatever you do, don't EVEN go onto a "you try it" bit, because I HAVE.

Instead you've shown me that you really have no clue about the BE effect on CH at all, do you?

We can CHOOSE to use a vitality pack, or we can BUY another pet from you, or WAIT up to ten days for the pet to grow. If you're depending on that animals because you have to, oh, I don't know, use it? That's not much of a choice.

You say we want a pet with specific resists but its a choice? Not really. Wild pets don't have any type of decent resists. If we want to be effective, we DON'T have a choice.

Using pet stims or taking skills? Okay, fair enough . . . if we weren't dependant on you for the other things as well.

A better chance at taming a creature? Try the ONLY chance at taming what the devs have turned our high-end content into. A CH on its own is useless at anything else, so we go rare hunting. Guess what? Unless you're a wookiee, you need taming clothes for the biggies. Or will you say its our CHOICE not to completely reroll our characters into a new avatar?

Now lets also add in our usefulness for anything other than hunting. CH was always intended to be a dual profession in that sense; we're the only combat/trade profession in which we aquire our weapons at (supposedly) no cost and sell them to others. Thing is, that's gone for us now. Now if we want to be in the pet trade, we have to go for a BE for that too, because no one wants wild animals as they are so useless. No one will buy them at any sort of a profit . . . . at all, I've tried, because they can go pick one up off a vendor and have their bud toss a tame on it. There's no reason to pay us for them tamed and trained.

Then you confuse the character with the class. I have a non-combat CH; her pets are her character. She doesn't need buffs, she doesn't need armor, clothing is optional, and she doesn't need food. She DOES need pet stims, she DOES need effective animals in the wild, and if she wasn't a wookiee she WOULD need those taming segments.

We get enough from BE's as it is. You're having NO problem making money, so all I'm saying is there's NO reason to make us even more dependant on you.

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Out of respect for the other CHs on this forum, I'll attempt to stop the flame war I see starting now. I won't even try to get the "last word" in which is really hard for me cause I almost always have to get the last word in

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BlindTyldak wrote:

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Bracci wrote:

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BlindTyldak wrote:

Yes, you can never blame the players for things like this . . . but as it stands we are way too dependant on them as it is.

Take another combat class, like a rifleman.

1.) They can depend on themselves to find the loot drops for better weapons (in theory, I hear they are not very great)

2.) The Weaponsmith makes their armor

3.) The Doctor makes their stims/buffs

4.) The Armorsmith makes their armor

5.) The Tailor makes their clothes.

For their class to be effective, they have five different groups to depend on. Now lets look at the CH, forgetting whatever other class they might have.

1.) The BE makes the best pets, so much better that they can be several times more effective than wild animals of the same level, sometimes up to or exceeding 10x the HAM. They also make the strictly useful pets, such as the only desirable non-CH mounts.

2.) The BE makes the medicine for the pets.

3.) The BE makes the parts for the clothes certain species need for maximum effectiveness.

This is a very bad concentration for one class to be dependant on another class. We should be concentrating on finding ways to break that dependance and aim for some effectiveness on our own.

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So you're saying you don't need buffs, armor, clothing, or food? One person makes the weapons for the Rifleman. The Weaponsmith. BEs cannot make the clothing, so the tailor is not out of the equation. Armorsmiths still need tailors to make components for the armor, so the tailor again is not out of the equation. You ask for ways to break the "dependence" of the Ch on the BE, and I claim there is NO dependence. It is optional.

You have a pet with low vitality. You CHOOSE to use a vitality pack. You COULD just go tame another.
You want a particular set of resists on a pet. You CHOOSE to purchase a BE'd pet. You don't NEED the particular stats, you want them.
You want to heal your pet. You CHOOSE to use a pet stim pack. You COULD use regular stimpacks, and get some medic skills.
You want to have a better chance at taming a creature. You CHOOSE to purchase clothing that will give you the bonuses. You don't have to.

BE's have 3 different lines of crafting. The first is tailor tissues, only usable by tailors (and I suppose *maybe* some artisans, but I have yet to have an artisan buy any tissues, chef or tailor from my vendor). The second is chef tissues, only usable by chefs (see above note). The final is Pets/Pet Stims. Most of our pets are made for CH (CL>10, as I'm sure you're aware), and they are very hard to make (just you try to be a BE for a week, let me know if you can make a custom order pet come out exactly as was requested). The pets that are CL<10 are typically bugged by the invalid pet screen, and if they're not they're either so uber they'll get nerfed soon or so ridiculously low in stats that a CH tamed pet is better. The Pet Stims/Vitality Packs are our last creation of note, and any that are worth a damn (cs, ds) require pretty hard to acquire resources (fish, and dath insect meat - of which you are completely dependent upon the resource rotation to obtain). BE's are completely dependent upon three classes in the game for income, and two classes for the materials to make their items (scout, ranger, since virtually ALL items we can make require meat, hide, and/or bone).

You are not dependent upon us. You *choose* to utilize our services. When you figure out the difference you'll see where your logic is flawed.

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Okay first of all, I WAS a BE. *waves* I know better than most that it's really pretty pathetic how much the BE puts back into the market that other professions need as compared to others. So whatever you do, don't EVEN go onto a "you try it" bit, because I HAVE.

elaborate please.

Instead you've shown me that you really have no clue about the BE effect on CH at all, do you?

I remember when CH's used to be able to go to Dath and Dant and get a datapad full of rancors and graul maulers to sell to other CH's for about 35k+ each on my server. Then we get "rebalanced" and no one wants to be a CH anymore. With pets being nerfed the way they are, BE pets becomea lot more attractive--still nerfed, but able to offer some customization that could allow CH's to still PVE at a certain level. Also, CH's are given the option of pet stims which allows for high level heals with no skill point cost. None of this could be described as the BE community doing anything at all to the CH community. So the "effect" BE's have on CH's is what you make of it.

We can CHOOSE to use a vitality pack, or we can BUY another pet from you, or WAIT up to ten days for the pet to grow. If you're depending on that animals because you have to, oh, I don't know, use it? That's not much of a choice.

I've never made or used a vitality pack, if my pets can't handle the situation, I have to face the sad reality that it may be time for me to change pet combos or even go with a completely different pet......I hate destroying my creations.

You say we want a pet with specific resists but its a choice? Not really. Wild pets don't have any type of decent resists. If we want to be effective, we DON'T have a choice.

Wesample wild pets in order to get the resists we want to clone through to BE pets, so those resists are out there. Even BE's have to make hard choices on what resists we are willing to let go...having vulnerabilities saves us some CL's. Our bread and butter resist combo is kinetic/energy, but many creatures in the wild have those resists also.

Using pet stims or taking skills? Okay, fair enough . . . if we weren't dependant on you for the other things as well.

I'm sorry, "if we weren't dependant on you for the other things as well"? So youonly think it's fair if wesupply you with petheals at no skill point cost to you, and that's it? If that's the case, why bother having a BE profession?--Docs could just get a new schematic for pet stims and the devs would have one less profession to worry about. Grasp the fact that most BE's chose this profession to make custom pets, and you'll understand how ridiculous that sounds.

A better chance at taming a creature? Try the ONLY chance at taming what the devs have turned our high-end content into. A CH on its own is useless at anything else, so we go rare hunting. Guess what? Unless you're a wookiee, you need taming clothes for the biggies. Or will you say its our CHOICE not to completely reroll our characters into a new avatar?

Yes!!!! Finally something we are in complete agreement over!!! I've been saying for a long time that the Wookiee bonus was implemented incorrectly, but NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE!!!! It's absolutely crazy!!!! Everyone keeps saying 'just buy some BE +taming clothing', and I say "NO!!!!" don't do that!!!! instead, tell the devs that this is BS that no one can be a true MASTER CH right now except a Wookiee. Sure, taming should be easier for a Wookiee, but they should not be able to tame creatures that other CH's can't!!!

Now lets also add in our usefulness for anything other than hunting. CH was always intended to be a dual profession in that sense; we're the only combat/trade profession in which we aquire our weapons at (supposedly) no cost and sell them to others. Thing is, that's gone for us now. Now if we want to be in the pet trade, we have to go for a BE for that too, because no one wants wild animals as they are so useless. No one will buy them at any sort of a profit . . . . at all, I've tried, because they can go pick one up off a vendor and have their bud toss a tame on it. There's no reason to pay us for them tamed and trained.

It's not quite "gone", I still get tells from people asking me if I have some pets/mounts for sale when I wear my Master Creature Handler tag.

Then you confuse the character with the class. I have a non-combat CH; her pets are her character. She doesn't need buffs, she doesn't need armor, clothing is optional, and she doesn't need food. She DOES need pet stims, she DOES need effective animals in the wild, and if she wasn't a wookiee she WOULD need those taming segments.

Curious...what is the Wookiee's template? CH doesn't take up all your skill points, but from this statement it appears that is your only profession for this character, for the sole purpose of using pets...kind of wasteful in my opinion.

We get enough from BE's as it is. You're having NO problem making money, so all I'm saying is there's NO reason to make us even more dependant on you.

/sigh...It would appear from your post that you get nothing but pet stims from the BE profession, which wasn't even the reason the profession was designed...that saddens me. As for making money, we have pros and cons like anyone else. I don't do any of the BE tissues/stims for money because getting the resources can be a pain or extremely expensive, so I stick mostly to pets for the time being. Unfortunately, CH's are too few these days, and many seem to want nothing to do with our creations. Those that do purchase BE pets right now can't imagine how grateful I am. My bread'n'butter comes from destroy missions...I am a MCH afterall.

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Fett335 wrote:
This thread seems to have shifted from my point. I just wanted to know if augmenting wild pets was something the rest of the CH community could get behind, with the BE's, and bring to the attention of the devs. The idea was this would increase cooperation between the two professions; I wasn't implying that there were currently tensions. If you all think augmentations are a good idea please say so. Would help in PvE and make the profession more enjoyable.

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