Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Jedi and Creatures in PvP
OldManDog wrote:
Ko-aIri wrote:
The real problem here is the fact that the 75% damage reduction in PvP doesn't apply to pets to begin with from ANY attacker, Jedi or otherwise. So a hit that does 250 damage to you does 1000 damage to your pet. And the Jedi's damage multiplier just amplifies the problem.
It's been suggested numerous times in the past but it hasn't been adjusted to date. Hopefully it gets addressed.
Yes %75 Reduction. This so called Multiplier is just the armour system doing it's calculations...
Sabers are Medium AP > Pets light --> none = Pwned.
***I SAY NO FAIR HOW DARE YOU!?!?! These people played the game through either 10-32 professions to unlock of have leveled through millions of force sensitivity experience & Jedi experience to get their template finished, toughing it through the Jedi TEF and BHs. They work very hard to be skilled at all aspects, they didn't accidently get a Jedi. The CURB is going to very much change the game why start complaining now just tough it out.
- Because there are some of us who just learned about it, thanks to the weaksauce communication skills of the powers-that-be
- Because if we start complaining now, it MIGHT get a response from the devs sometime in, oh, 2008 or so
- Because the devs said they would "never allow one character class to cut a swath through reams of enemies"
- Because someone needs to make sure the devs know that this needs to be rebalanced in the CURB
- Because it doesn't follow that that you are a godlike player just because the devs gave you a godlike character -- in fact, the opposite tends to be the norm
- Because I'm just about ready to gag on the smug self-satisfied cat-that-ate-the-cheese attitude among Jedi players
- Because too many players with Jedi characters confuse "long and boring" with "difficult"
- Because Jedi already have more game-balance-killing advantages than is good for any human to have
- Because I'm sick of how these players insist that they deserve it
- Because we have players who can't even construct a grammatically correct sentence arrogating to themselves the role of the most elite profession in the game -- and then tell us it's because they're such great players
- Because I'll believe the CURB is an "upgrade" when I see that the CURB is an upgrade
- Because I am increasingly skeptical that a concept that makes for great movie heroes can be converted to a great game for anyone but the characters based on those great movie heroes
- Because fast customer service is a phenomenon known only among Jedi
- Because this game wastes so much potential
- Because you don't give a rat's a$$ about anyone but your own little self and therefore deserve to have your character nerfed into oblivion
- Because it's wrong
- Because I have serious reservations about the wisdom of shelling out fifteen bucks a month forcrap likethis.
Is that enough for you? Let me know, because this list is far from exhaustive. It's just what occurred to me off the top of my head.
VacaXXX wrote:
When i first started, pets were something to be feared. . . .now its a joke . . . . and I kinda miss it...........
it would have to be balanced and not exactly 75%, and do you think that your pet should keep attacking me if say, you die? or just stop?
I think pets should basically freak out whenever they see anyone incap their master, and go completely berserk. Here's how I wouldset it up:
- When "Master" goes down, the pet immediately doubles his current HAM. For example, if he's currently at 1500 out of 8500 Health, his health goes up to 3000. Conversely, if that same pet is undamaged, his Health jumps up to a whopping 17,000! This effectively penalizes players for ignoring an enemy.
- The pet gains an immediate 25-point improvement to all resistances except for those in the "Vulnerable" category for the duration of the battle. This caps at 90%. Note that it does not reduce inherent resistances, such as a desert vesp's 100% resistance to heat.
- The pet's speed is doubled, and heimmediately rushes the nearest opponent who attacked his master. If he survives that encounter, he moves on to the next, and so on until he or they are all dead.
- If the pet does not have it already, he gains a temporary Intimidate ability. Pets who already have Intimidate gain a bonus of 10% on the effect of their Intimidate. In other words, these pets' intimidate ability (normally reducing damage done by the player to 50% of normal) now reduces the damage output of the target to 40% of normal. These modifiers remain in effect until the pet dies or kills all his master's attackers.
- The pet gains 25 bonus points of Dodge for the duration of the battle against his master's assailants.
These bonuses are pretty dramatic, but that's the sort of thing that would restore a measure of balance to pets.
An alternative trigger point for this might be any time "Master" is knocked down to 25% of his current maximum HAM.
Iakimo wrote:
VacaXXX wrote:
When i first started, pets were something to be feared. . . .now its a joke . . . . and I kinda miss it...........
it would have to be balanced and not exactly 75%, and do you think that your pet should keep attacking me if say, you die? or just stop?
I think pets should basically freak out whenever they see anyone incap their master, and go completely berserk. Here's how I wouldset it up:
- When "Master" goes down, the pet immediately doubles his current HAM. For example, if he's currently at 1500 out of 8500 Health, his health goes up to 3000. Conversely, if that same pet is undamaged, his Health jumps up to a whopping 17,000! This effectively penalizes players for ignoring an enemy.
- The pet gains an immediate 25-point improvement to all resistances except for those in the "Vulnerable" category for the duration of the battle. This caps at 90%. Note that it does not reduce inherent resistances, such as a desert vesp's 100% resistance to heat.
- The pet's speed is doubled, and heimmediately rushes the nearest opponent who attacked his master. If he survives that encounter, he moves on to the next, and so on until he or they are all dead.
- If the pet does not have it already, he gains a temporary Intimidate ability. Pets who already have Intimidate gain a bonus of 10% on the effect of their Intimidate. In other words, these pets' intimidate ability (normally reducing damage done by the player to 50% of normal) now reduces the damage output of the target to 40% of normal. These modifiers remain in effect until the pet dies or kills all his master's attackers.
- The pet gains 25 bonus points of Dodge for the duration of the battle against his master's assailants.
These bonuses are pretty dramatic, but that's the sort of thing that would restore a measure of balance to pets.
An alternative trigger point for this might be any time "Master" is knocked down to 25% of his current maximum HAM.
Those sound like good ideas, a pet getting pissed when it's master dies makes sense. I disagree the extent of the power you want to give the pet to force players to "consider the threat", however. Sometimes a combat medic or a rifleman is more of a threat to me than 2 rancors.
Cebus wrote:
Iakimo wrote:
VacaXXX wrote:
When i first started, pets were something to be feared. . . .now its a joke . . . . and I kinda miss it...........
it would have to be balanced and not exactly 75%, and do you think that your pet should keep attacking me if say, you die? or just stop?
I think pets should basically freak out whenever they see anyone incap their master, and go completely berserk. Here's how I wouldset it up:
- When "Master" goes down, the pet immediately doubles his current HAM. For example, if he's currently at 1500 out of 8500 Health, his health goes up to 3000. Conversely, if that same pet is undamaged, his Health jumps up to a whopping 17,000! This effectively penalizes players for ignoring an enemy.
- The pet gains an immediate 25-point improvement to all resistances except for those in the "Vulnerable" category for the duration of the battle. This caps at 90%. Note that it does not reduce inherent resistances, such as a desert vesp's 100% resistance to heat.
- The pet's speed is doubled, and heimmediately rushes the nearest opponent who attacked his master. If he survives that encounter, he moves on to the next, and so on until he or they are all dead.
- If the pet does not have it already, he gains a temporary Intimidate ability. Pets who already have Intimidate gain a bonus of 10% on the effect of their Intimidate. In other words, these pets' intimidate ability (normally reducing damage done by the player to 50% of normal) now reduces the damage output of the target to 40% of normal. These modifiers remain in effect until the pet dies or kills all his master's attackers.
- The pet gains 25 bonus points of Dodge for the duration of the battle against his master's assailants.
These bonuses are pretty dramatic, but that's the sort of thing that would restore a measure of balance to pets.
An alternative trigger point for this might be any time "Master" is knocked down to 25% of his current maximum HAM.
Those sound like good ideas, a pet getting pissed when it's master dies makes sense. I disagree the extent of the power you want to give the pet to force players to "consider the threat", however. Sometimes a combat medic or a rifleman is more of a threat to me than 2 rancors.
Can you clarify what you mean? I'm not sure if you're saying this is too much or not enough of a boost. But I do agree with you that combat medics (and riflemen, to a lesser extent) are more of a threat. When I'm about to enter a battle, the second question out of the group leader's mouth in TeamSpeak (after "Are there any Jedi?") is, "Are there any combat medics?"
Personally, I find that pets have been so completely nerfed that even this much of a boost would only make them approach viability.... and then, only after their master is incapped. Most (probably all) hard-core PvP'ers consider Creature Handler to be a waste of skill points.
Iakimo wrote:
- Because there are some of us who just learned about it, thanks to the weaksauce communication skills of the powers-that-be
- Because if we start complaining now, it MIGHT get a response from the devs sometime in, oh, 2008 or so
- Because the devs said they would "never allow one character class to cut a swath through reams of enemies"
- Because someone needs to make sure the devs know that this needs to be rebalanced in the CURB
- Because it doesn't follow that that you are a godlike player just because the devs gave you a godlike character -- in fact, the opposite tends to be the norm
- Because I'm just about ready to gag on the smug self-satisfied cat-that-ate-the-cheese attitude among Jedi players
- Because too many players with Jedi characters confuse "long and boring" with "difficult"
- Because Jedi already have more game-balance-killing advantages than is good for any human to have
- Because I'm sick of how these players insist that they deserve it
- Because we have players who can't even construct a grammatically correct sentence arrogating to themselves the role of the most elite profession in the game -- and then tell us it's because they're such great players
- Because I'll believe the CURB is an "upgrade" when I see that the CURB is an upgrade
- Because I am increasingly skeptical that a concept that makes for great movie heroes can be converted to a great game for anyone but the characters based on those great movie heroes
- Because fast customer service is a phenomenon known only among Jedi
- Because this game wastes so much potential
- Because you don't give a rat's a$$ about anyone but your own little self and therefore deserve to have your character nerfed into oblivion
- Because it's wrong
- Because I have serious reservations about the wisdom of shelling out fifteen bucks a month forcrap likethis.
Is that enough for you? Let me know, because this list is far from exhaustive. It's just what occurred to me off the top of my head.
Message Edited by Riptor83 on 02-14-2005 01:58 PM
Riptor83 wrote:
Iakimo wrote:
3. They did not say enemies, they said players, currently pets are considered PvE, and therefore if you want to count them as PvP then they will take a 75% reduction to the damage they do before armor making them even more useless than they are now.
4. The CURB will remove this, it is a temporary PvE modifier until the CURB that were placed in because of the extreme drop in the damage of lightsabers.
All of your other "points" are just opinions, generalizations, or have nothing to do with Jedi and your pets, regardless of how strongly you feal about them.
Message Edited by Riptor83 on 02-14-2005 01:58 PM
I am well aware it willbe removed with the C/U/R/B, but after being balanced for a year I wolntconsider this a temporary modiferdownloading the patch that holds the C/U/R/B.
This should have NEVER been applied to pets or should have been severely nerfed to make the damage done to pets by jedi comparable to damage done by other players. Any arguement you or any other Jedi can possibly make against having this removed or reduced is made completely irrevelant by your character being a Jedi. If I only had to worry about 3 or 4 people per server having this ability then I wouldnt really care.
Riptor83 wrote:
3. They did not say enemies, they said players, currently pets are considered PvE, and therefore if you want to count them as PvP then they will take a 75% reduction to the damage they do before armor making them even more useless than they are now.
4. The CURB will remove this, it is a temporary PvE modifier until the CURB that were placed in because of the extreme drop in the damage of lightsabers.
All of your other "points" are just opinions, generalizations, or have nothing to do with Jedi and your pets, regardless of how strongly you feal about them.
Message Edited by Riptor83 on 02-14-2005 01:58 PM
Well, Vertexon is on the case, so I'm confident that it will get the attention it deserves. Which is a lot more than I can say for some other correspondents. But the logic still seems straightforward: If pets are used in PvP, they should be treated as PvP. The way I see it, it would be like any other profession having their primary tool nerfed to an absurdly low level because they were used in PvE. This setup just doesn't make sense.
At any rate,there are still elements of it that I'm unclear on, like your allusion to the "extreme drop in the damage of lightsabers." What's the deal with that?
MadLeprechaun wrote:
yep, when someone asks to duel my pet I usually just say "I'd like to keep it alive for now thanks" and keep walking. Only time I ever use them in PvP is against noobs who just started and even then its a tough fight for my pet vs. noob. I think a 50% damage reduction AT LEAST would be good and add the "Master goes down, Pet kills everything in sight" thing. But have the pet first attack the enemies and then attack random things until it dies.... if it goes beserk i think the pet should be incapped and extremely "winded" afterwards and be unable to fight for a good 8 hours. This means anyone in the near vicinity is in danger of being attacked when Master goes down, even the poor noob hunting chubas outside theed... no deathblows from the pet though to prevent an unenjoyable experince. But if you see a CH go down with his pet out with him.... get you fat ass away from there cuz that pet is gonna be friggin pissed! It aggroes all NPC's and creatures as well, so this would apply to both PvE and PvP
LOL! I thought about suggesting the pet aggro everything around, but I thought that would be a bit too extreme. The idea makes sense, but I was imagining the endless stream of whining that would result... especially if it aggro'd a nOOb.
Iakimo wrote:
At any rate,there are still elements of it that I'm unclear on, like your allusion to the "extreme drop in the damage of lightsabers." What's the deal with that?
I have to admit, I think this is an excellent idea. If course, there's the question of feasibilty that would have to be worked out. But, I'm all for anything that might make the PVPers I know think a little bit more about my pets then, "Aawww... Idai has her rancor out. Isn't that cute?!"
Iakimo wrote:
VacaXXX wrote:
When i first started, pets were something to be feared. . . .now its a joke . . . . and I kinda miss it...........
it would have to be balanced and not exactly 75%, and do you think that your pet should keep attacking me if say, you die? or just stop?
I think pets should basically freak out whenever they see anyone incap their master, and go completely berserk. Here's how I wouldset it up:
- When "Master" goes down, the pet immediately doubles his current HAM. For example, if he's currently at 1500 out of 8500 Health, his health goes up to 3000. Conversely, if that same pet is undamaged, his Health jumps up to a whopping 17,000! This effectively penalizes players for ignoring an enemy.
- The pet gains an immediate 25-point improvement to all resistances except for those in the "Vulnerable" category for the duration of the battle. This caps at 90%. Note that it does not reduce inherent resistances, such as a desert vesp's 100% resistance to heat.
- The pet's speed is doubled, and heimmediately rushes the nearest opponent who attacked his master. If he survives that encounter, he moves on to the next, and so on until he or they are all dead.
- If the pet does not have it already, he gains a temporary Intimidate ability. Pets who already have Intimidate gain a bonus of 10% on the effect of their Intimidate. In other words, these pets' intimidate ability (normally reducing damage done by the player to 50% of normal) now reduces the damage output of the target to 40% of normal. These modifiers remain in effect until the pet dies or kills all his master's attackers.
- The pet gains 25 bonus points of Dodge for the duration of the battle against his master's assailants.
These bonuses are pretty dramatic, but that's the sort of thing that would restore a measure of balance to pets.
An alternative trigger point for this might be any time "Master" is knocked down to 25% of his current maximum HAM.
MadLeprechaun wrote:
yep, when someone asks to duel my pet I usually just say "I'd like to keep it alive for now thanks" and keep walking. Only time I ever use them in PvP is against noobs who just started and even then its a tough fight for my pet vs. noob. I think a 50% damage reduction AT LEAST would be good and add the "Master goes down, Pet kills everything in sight" thing. But have the pet first attack the enemies and then attack random things until it dies.... if it goes beserk i think the pet should be incapped and extremely "winded" afterwards and be unable to fight for a good 8 hours. This means anyone in the near vicinity is in danger of being attacked when Master goes down, even the poor noob hunting chubas outside theed... no deathblows from the pet though to prevent an unenjoyable experince. But if you see a CH go down with his pet out with him.... get you fat ass away from there cuz that pet is gonna be friggin pissed! It aggroes all NPC's and creatures as well, so this would apply to both PvE and PvP