Creature Handler Archive
Thread: upcoming changes
Rabenschwinge wrote:
hm, sounds like you actually want to be a healer, while we are actually entertainers.
I want all Entertainers to have a use in the game. You are not useful (sadly enough) if you can only entertain. You need some other use to most of the server population (aka, combat players) to pull them into your sphere, and THEN you can entertain. If you want to entertain only, I have a feeling you will find yourself very lonely amongst a few other entertainers. If healing is one way to make us useful, then yes, I do not mind that being a characteristic of the profession.
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
Petronela wrote:
And yes I know that in the eyes of most of you here I am not “real” entertainer, because I still believe we should have a real purpose and real contribution to the servers community.
[Snip Snip]
All I want is to have fun while playing the game I like, but in order to have fun I know I have to feel I am contributing somehow to more then just server lag.
/CheerI would like to be usefull too.I don't know where you get the Idea that your not a "Real" Entertainer... I want to provide a useful service as well, and I know many others want to as well..I actually get alot of people asking for me to inspire them (mostly jedi Grindeing groups from my city) because when you look at it.. a 10% bonus from 1000 Xps is an aditional 100 Exp.. thats not so shabby. and the insperations usually work out to last just long enough for one round of Missions so when they are comming back for more missions they get a new insperation
hehehe.
Inspiration is a good thing, imho, because it is not really helpful. No-one who prefers the kind of entertainment a rancor or PvP provides (shame on them) over the entertainment an entertainer provides must feel urged to go to cantina. 10%. That's 18 minutes worth of fighting.
If a combatant grinds FP he gets the XP they would have gotten for fighting 3 hours and 18 minutes after 3 hours. And that only if there really is no break ("let's wait until Jack's back from the cloner").
18 minutes is not much. Just enough to go to Coronet, have a little chat, get a buff and get to the field.
That's why I like it. People who like cantinas don't have a disadvantage when they wanna satisfy the their urge to harvest XP or FP. People who don't don't have a disadvantage if they do not come.
It took my some time to understand Sirii's point about BF within the countless posts. Yes, I agree, it may be an advantage that BF-healing is a post combat service. People come around post combat chat, relax... sweet and fuzzy.
But the truth is that to many players (especially pure combatant who do not quite understand the concept of RP) percive watching dancers as something with the charm of playing with Barbie dolls and they have no need to socialise and chat within a cantina, since they are doing that with their mates and enemies all the time.
Look folks..the removal of BF is going to happen. No amount of fit throwing on my part or your's is going to change that. Atmost, fit throwing will only get us set further back in the schedule..again.We're probably not going to see the new Inspirations until after BF is history. They simply will not be coded in time. I'm not pushing that they rush them because I don't want us debugging rushed code onLive.These facts were already the plan before I even knew about them (Iwas informed thatBF was going at about the same time you were).
The devs are well aware that most dancers don't like this change (& yeah..they've seen this thread..my job is simply to point these things out to them). They've wanted to change directions with us for a while (since long before I became corr). I regret that so many of you feel this is endgame for us. I regret that there is no information about the incoming Inspirations that I've been released to provide you with. I can tell you that the information I've been given indicates that the new Inspirations will be something thatwillkeep us in the game (though not necessarily the pre-combat game).
If the intention for your dancer character is to provide support for your combat character, then you might want to consider doctor as your next profession. If you're here to dance and provide a wanted bonus to other players, then stick around. It really is going to happen. That is something I've repeatedly gotten assurance of.
JediMasterKai wrote:
Rabenschwinge wrote:
hm, sounds like you actually want to be a healer, while we are actually entertainers.
I want all Entertainers to have a use in the game. You are not useful (sadly enough) if you can only entertain. You need some other use to most of the server population (aka, combat players) to pull them into your sphere, and THEN you can entertain. If you want to entertain only, I have a feeling you will find yourself very lonely amongst a few other entertainers. If healing is one way to make us useful, then yes, I do not mind that being a characteristic of the profession.
No, I disagree.
We are usefull because we are artists, because we are storrytellers and bards, because we are spies and informational hubs. Because we are dancers, we are the content! That's why I believe that dances and effects are being way more important than silly ways to blackmail people coming into the cantina.
I am very proud because of this, and I hate to be abused for something I am not. Not by the players who make us of my services, but by the system which forces them to. And the system that makes people without the slightest interest in role-playing an artist.
Of course role-playing an artist wouldn't make you one, and even someone who was actually being able to perform in game. If one takes a distant neutral view, we have the sexual energy of papa smurf, and the artisitic ability of a walking electric bunny. Mos Eisley cantina is not the Reperbahn and Theed theater is not Paris' State Opera. But that shouldn't stop us playing the character we want, a dancer. Not a slave to the system.
There are enough people out there who like this style of playing, there enough patrons coming into the cantina who do not have any BF at all.
Esharra wrote:
That is something I've repeatedly gotten assurance of.
Like we were assured that AFK was going away? Like we were assured that BF wasn't going away with the CU? Like we were assured that requiring a huge XP penalty for new content would be the model for all professions in the future?
Please don't think I'm attacking you, Esharra, but a dev's "assurances" aren't worth spit on a stick.
Umiio
Yeah..I pretty much figured you'd all hang on to that line. The reality is; it is the devs' game. We are subscribers to an online service. And there aren't enough of us to really sway our game. We want more influence? We're going to have to bring in more entertainers. But then..bringing in buffbots didn't give us more influence.
Sunjammer wrote:
Esharra wrote:
That is something I've repeatedly gotten assurance of.
Like we were assured that AFK was going away? Like we were assured that BF wasn't going away with the CU? Like we were assured that requiring a huge XP penalty for new content would be the model for all professions in the future?
Please don't think I'm attacking you, Esharra, but a dev's "assurances" aren't worth spit on a stick.
Umiio
Message Edited by Esharra on 06-28-2005 11:42 AM
They're trying, I think we should be open to that. That's what I suspected (that the decision was already carved into stone) but I still kept hoping simply because they have changed their minds about things before. Since the new inspiration buffs won't be coded in time is there a reason the BF removal date has to happen before then? I agree we don't want the additionsrushed since rushing only causes problems but I'm just curious as to why the removal has toto be rushed?
We're taking a lot on faith here. Yes it's the devs game but didn't they create it for others to enjoy? Don't they get a sense of satisfaction knowing that their product is so relaxing and fun that we'll gladly purchase the game and continue paying a subscription fee because of their efforts? I can keep the faith. I've kept it this long. I just worry about newer players (and a few not so new). What will they have to be hopeful for if their style of play isn't fully supported by a single 10% inspiration buff and a new song or a new dance? What will happen when the additions finally go through? Will there be a big PR move to help announce them or will the information get buried or confused or...? Are we going to be left holding the bag that requires us to once again beg to be included in the game? Some days it's tough not to have more worries than hope for the future.
Esharra wrote:
Yeah..I pretty much figured you'd all hang on to that line. The reality is; it is the devs' game. We are subscribers to an online service. And there aren't enough of us to really sway our game. We want more influence? We're going to have to bring in more entertainers. But then..bringing in buffbots didn't give us more influence.
Sunjammer wrote:
Esharra wrote:
That is something I've repeatedly gotten assurance of.
Like we were assured that AFK was going away? Like we were assured that BF wasn't going away with the CU? Like we were assured that requiring a huge XP penalty for new content would be the model for all professions in the future?
Please don't think I'm attacking you, Esharra, but a dev's "assurances" aren't worth spit on a stick.
Umiio
Message Edited by Esharra on 06-28-200511:42 AM
Esharra please, I honestly for moment don’t believe anyone blames any part of their frustration on you. You are doing an awesome job, personally I don’t know how you do it …. but you are doing great. So please don’t take any “venting” here personally. If we can’t vent here, where then? If devs have an issues with criticism and would punish the whole player base by deleting release of content based on what people post here …. well then I really don’t know what to think. Majority of their player base doesn’t read forums, yet they are to be punished too … lol I do find it little humorous in a sick kind of way.
How are we not keep in mind all those points Umi stated and not be at least little cynical until proven otherwise?
Ikewe wrote:
Will there be a big PR move to help announce them or will the information get buried or confused or...?
Ikewe wrote:
That's what I suspected (that the decision was already carved into stone) but I still kept hoping simply because they have changed their minds about things before. Since the new inspiration buffs won't be coded in time is there a reason the BF removal date has to happen before then? I agree we don't want the additionsrushed since rushing only causes problems but I'm just curious as to why the removal has toto be rushed?
Honestly, I don't know that the reason forremoval (while it affects us) has anything to do with us. The couple of things that BF affects are apparently not considered the kind of gate to combat that the devs want at this time.
We're taking a lot on faith here. Yes it's the devs game but didn't they create it for others to enjoy?
Here again is the issue of us not being a very large percentage of the playerbase. Based on my experiencewith MMOG demographics, I'm *guessing* that we're about 3% (including bots). I've recently asked for somestatistics and hope we'll see them soon. I think it would be a lot more productive of us if we stopped pouring our energy into trying to hold back the river and started applying ourselves into thinking of things to ask for that would bring in more entertainers. Devs apply content where players are spending their time.
What will happen when the additions finally go through?
I'll slide a write-up into TH's hand and whisper "Friday Feature" in his ear.
Esharra wrote:Look folks..the removal of BF is going to happen. No amount of fit throwing on my part or your's is going to change that. Atmost, fit throwing will only get us set further back in the schedule..again.We're probably not going to see the new Inspirations until after BF is history. They simply will not be coded in time. I'm not pushing that they rush them because I don't want us debugging rushed code onLive.These facts were already the plan before I even knew about them (Iwas informed thatBF was going at about the same time you were).
The devs are well aware that most dancers don't like this change (& yeah..they've seen this thread..my job is simply to point these things out to them). They've wanted to change directions with us for a while (since long before I became corr). I regret that so many of you feel this is endgame for us. I regret that there is no information about the incoming Inspirations that I've been released to provide you with. I can tell you that the information I've been given indicates that the new Inspirations will be something thatwillkeep us in the game (though not necessarily the pre-combat game).
If the intention for your dancer character is to provide support for your combat character, then you might want to consider doctor as your next profession. If you're here to dance and provide a wanted bonus to other players, then stick around. It really is going to happen. That is something I've repeatedly gotten assurance of.
In the past, things that "have been decided" have been thrown back into the mix for further dev review. For example, the ID timers were unpopular. They went live, and ID's did not give up, but rather they continued to voice their opinions. It took a while, but the timers were reduced, and later eliminated. Why then should those who oppose the change cease to give feedback on it?
Besides the trolling, I think that we've been intelligently discussing the pros and cons of this system, with little "fit throwing." Are we not allowed to do that? Is intelligently and logically opposing a change going to get us a slap with the ugly stick and a dev saying "oh well, no soup for you." Is it really the case that we accept this change quietly or get booted off the schedule?
Esharra wrote:
They've wanted to change directions with us for a while (since long before I became corr).
Ah see this is my point. Esharra at least gets it. This is a change of directions from the original design. I have no problem with that. BE and Doc changed directions too, for instance.
What I do have a problem with is being told, "You were never intended to be healers from day 1 of the design." That doesn't wash, given all our skill boxes and our role pre-CU and so forth. Clearly we WERE designed to be one of the two healing types in the game. They have decided that doesn't work and want to change it? That's OK, but don't lie about it and try to push the blame onto ME for "never understanding the original design" -- as if it's somehow MY fault that dancers are as messed up as they are because I just didn't get it. (And by "me" I mean, "dancers"... i.e. the devs are blaming the victim for the state of things in the game.)
THAT is the kind of attitude that the devs have, that ticks me off.
Again, I'm talking about the devs, not the correspondents.
C