Creature Handler Archive

Zilod,

Thanks for posting that quote, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks that a new elite-elite profession isn't a bad idea

The one frightening thing I've taken from reading Holo's comments in this thread is the constant reference he makes to "people".. CHs combat abilities in relation to other people, ergo other players. Ergo PvP.

The death of any class comes about when it is balanced in favour of PvP. None of the changes that have been brought in recently, with the possible exception of the level cap (which I incidentally believe is too low for MCH - 100 would be more appropriate) have been PvE led. Let's face it, what damage is caused by players levelling up "too quick" in PvE using pets? People have already exploited their way to mastery of combat professions through various other means - Baz Nitch exploits, etc.

Also, players do roughly the same amount of damage in PvP even with the 75% cap - pets (and tactics - i.e. strength in numbers, etc) were always the distinction in PvP battles - the person with the pets (whether organic or faction pets) tended to be the stronger foe. So, pets get nerfed because its unbalanced in PvP.

Well, that's just great for those that enjoy PvP - but what about the other 99% Raph?

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I said that the droid certifications would be based on combat exp, something equal to the amounts needed for creature handlers. So like you'd need 10'000 combat exp to own a low level battle droid with 4000 HAM and causes 200 damage, then as you progress up you'd need more and more exp to own more powerful droids. Basically it's like the creature handler only that people need to buy these droids rather than taming then plus they're fully grown from the start although they also need regular maintaince unlike the pets.

And when I said letting them have two powerful weapons I specifically said AT ONCE. That doesn't mean letting them master rifles and pistols since they can still only use one at a time. A master CH on the other hand can get a CL70 pet (once they add the new additions to the bio-enginer to allow us to make them) which has 11k HAM and hits for around 2000 damage. Then that same master CH can then take master rifleman and throw an extra 2000 ontop of that as well. Other professions need to be able ot dishout that kind of damage as well or at least have the potential to and the only way I see a solution to that is to introduce battle droids and droid certifications so that non-ch players can be on par with their CH counterparts.

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Holocron wrote:

Most specifically, the vision of creature handlers I have is not that of someone who conjures up pets named A, B, and C, and doesn't care if they live or die, or who treats them like weapons. In a more fantasy-based game, I might well have made it so that if your pet dies, the creature handler takes a significant penalty.

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Mind wounds?

I Assume most of you have read the "Open discussion on balancing" by Holocron going right now on Main Forum.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=366138&page=1

I'd say chance of what any of you are asking have next to zero of ever happening.

Everything he said boil down to this

1) NO ONE would be able to kill red con solo. Ever

2) They will NOT "up" rest of profession to match the best profession, they will nurf all profession to match the game.

These two point are carved in stone. If it is not the case, this WILL be the case once they are done. To put it in his word the game would be "lost at sea" if otherwise.

And as you all know already they made it clear that as CH,you are considered "solo" if you are group with/fight withyour pet.

Things will change, and they will not be to any of us liking (CH or non-CH).

So don't worry about that AT-ST, it will be fixed if it allow them to kill red solo.

You ask for ability to take out 2 level 50 pet? sure they will let you do that. It wouldn't matter if you can pull out 2 or 5 or 10 at once, they will make sure you will NEVER be able to kill red mob solo EVER.

You want more perks as master CH? well you will get it, but as master CH, you will no more likely to kill red con solo than any other master profession.

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Holocron wrote:

In a more fantasy-based game, I might well have made it so that if your pet dies, the creature handler takes a significant penalty.

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YoungMace wrote:
Why woudln't you expect a MCH to be as powerful as a Master pistoleer? I know for a fact that we currently aren't but explain your reasoning for this. Please.

What trade offs? What are own attack? Not sure if you noticed mate but every can now control pets. What are own attack? Great multiple creatures. All of which can only attack. What other options do we have for pets? What other options? Look at them? Feed them repeadetly? Err mount them?

What other things can pets do that would be of interest to roll players? Make noises?

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I know this will get lost in the sea of responses...

I'm responding to Holos post about how adding the ability to control a creature and being a combat class is overwhelming. He said essentially all combat classes would then have to be CH.

Where do Faction pets come in. Is this the same thing as having a combat character with extra weapons. Why is this ok, yet having creatures doing the same thing bad?

just my 2cents...

I had not even gotten all of my Tier1 CH skills when they made all of the changes so many of you are upset about. I wasnt too thrilled thatI had to take Training I before I wanted to so I could continue to use my Dewback "Homer" but no biggie. I'm not a hardcore Star Wars fan, but I enjoy roleplaying some. My role playing characters arent all that different from me IRL. Homer was a gift to me before I even was halway up the scout tree and continues to be my favorite pet, I look forward to riding him someday as he seems so happy running through fields behind me on our way to missions or out exploring or looking for other baby animals. I never sought training in the profession so i could have 3 rancors or gurrecks or frenzied grauls running behind me. Homer has saved me from having to get clones more times that I can count, and to see him fall on the battlefield saddens me.

Yes, I've had 'disposable' pets. I may love animals but I had no problem taming a baby animal only to release it and have it killed (what happened to this by the way? they just dissapear now, maybe the force deletes them due to their inadiquicy to readjust to the wild... who knows, anyway). I've released some pets that I liked because I needed the slots to gather pets to sell or for whatever reason. Being able to sell low level creatures to nonCH's has given me a lively hood.Before they introduced this I would have to grind through missions to have any money. I get a lot of joy from enhancing someone else's game experience, I always have (thats why I've done levels for games and also worked on mod projects). Just ask anyone that's played Asheron's Call with me. I take a lot of care and pride in my animal shelter and in introducing newclients to their animals. I have no problems at all sitting down with them and telling them how to care for their pet and what to do when its hungry or wants to play, how to heal its vitality etc... And am always happy to answer tells and emails about pets or train them in new commands.

But that isn't why I originally took CH, I just thought it would be cool to have animal companions and figured it would enhance my melee skill since there was word of ranged >> melee. I am a pikeman. (doI really need to say more?) I cannot see myself hitting Master Pikeman at all in my first year of play was it not for Homer (or another pet by my side). I would say I'm somewhere between casual and hardcore. I play a lot, but Idon't grind a lot. And with the current state of the pikeman profession (I have all my tier 1 skills now) I NEED a good tank by me so experience does not drip in, but trickles in or flows intermittantly. Homer's protections have been broken and so usually after taking out a mob that cons white to me I have to heal Homer from near death (and I usually regen from near deathmyself in this time, 2/1/0/4 in the medic profession) not to mention, when I get incapped (which happens quite often with no defenses and -58 range mods across the board) I'm not usually slain because their aggression is turned towards my pet.

I think the current cap of 70 is probably a bit low considering Imperials can have AT-ST's at level 120 (125?). I think the old limit of 150 was way to high. I don't see how any one person could control 3 very aggressive and big creatures, one yes... MAYBE two if they had them from infants. Perhaps introducing something along the lines of a tiger freaking and mauling Sigfried and Roy even though they've had it since it was born and cared for it. Maybe only have a chance of this if there are two high level aggressive pets outor if the pet is sold/traded. I definately dont think this should happen for non-aggressive pets or lower level aggressive pets or the probability of this happening be high, but it would add a balance to increasing the level cap to say 100 or even make it 150 again and increase the chance even more. It would make us think twice about having 2 rancors out or 2 gurrecks when there is a chance that one will freak out and attack the other or even you! This would also open up for another USEFUL command such as "subdue" or "pacify" in the event this occurrs and would be much like the 'tame' command in useage and functionality AND it could also open up something else for BE's or medics to craft, 'tranquilizers'. This would open up the field for people who want to use their pets as tanks and weapons, but not without risks.

Just my thoughts on how this would be implemented.

One high level aggressive pet.. no problem.

2 high level aggressive pets of the same species.. a very low chance they freak out. (1 in 100)

3 high level aggressive pets of the same speicies.. a slightly higher chance they freak out. (1 in 75 maybe1 in 50)

2 high level aggressive pets of DIFFERENT species.. a greater chance of one freaking out. (say 1 in 4)

3 high level aggressive pets of different species (1-2).. an even greater chance of one freaking out. (say 1 in 3)

3 high level aggressive pets of different species (1-1-1).. say 1 in 2 chance that one freaks out.

You could also expand this in to having a high level aggressive pet and some lower aggressive or non aggressive pets and have a 1 in 250 chance the big guy decides he wants to eat the little ones.

I think adding packs to pets to allow them to carry items is a good idea. Mounts will have saddles and saddlebags are all too common and that further adds stuff for other professions to do. And also opens up another command "break in". I dont know of many creatures that will let a saddle be strapped to them and ridden without problems the first time. This could also lead to rodeos if implemented with a timer of say... 10 seconds of riding to 'break in' a mount. and that could be based off oftaming skill and creature knowledge. with higher level and aggressive mounts harder to 'break in'.

Does star wars have Zoo's? Who would not pay to get in to a zoo and see animals from all around the galaxy? just another idea.

Another thing I think would be a cool addition to our profession and something else for the galaxy to enjoy is **edit** fighting. no not that kind of **edit**.This is possible now with Dueling but that opens it up for the masters to attack as well. Why not a command or option to just have pets fight? This would increase gambling and give us another source of income (if we win) and allow others to make money off of bets. Perhaps the Empire does not like these cruel activities but to hell with what they think, I want illegal underground wrix fighting in the backwaters of naboo and rori or in the wyles of tatooine far from imperial control. This would also appease those who don't care about their pets or want to use them as weapons.

As I said at the beginning of this post, it's just my 2cents, and a few extra ideas that popped out of my head thrown in. Please dont flame

Raph, you said:

"Most specifically, the vision of creature handlers I have is not that of someone who conjures up pets named A, B, and C, and doesn't care if they live or die, or who treats them like weapons."

And yet as much as we love our pets, for some of us they are also our primary form of offense. Creature Handler/Bio-Engineers such as myself can't afford to specialize in a weapon. We cap out at a much lower level with our weapons that we do with our creature handling abilities. At the point thatmy pet'scombat abilities outstrip my own it will have become my primary weapon.

Please keep this in mind when "balancing" the Creature Handler class.

Cheers,

Haggis