Creature Handler Archive
Thread: A note of people calling players Dabblers
Message Edited by El-Carpeta on 08-29-2005 05:21 PM
What got Ch nerfed was the Word "Pokemon."
What got CH nerfed was the over reaction of a few of us old timers that did not have the foresight to know that the game is not even fully explored (Meaning we did not know about Armor or Buffs).
What got CH nerfed was the over reaction of the community.
Thats why you must fight the good fight against nerf herders and PVP Non-hackers
So for those of you who want to start crying "OMG he is dabbling, we cannot have that." Shut Up !!! Because it was people like you, and the others who did not want to dabble in CH that got us nerfed so many times before. Brother CHs, remember that when you are in combat and your newly trained lvl 70 pet is reduced to a bleeding lump of flesh, you have just lost ALL your combat CH mods. We are the only combat profession that suffer this. We have to DABBLE or we cannot win, especially in the old days when you were trying to tame your first Rancor, surrounded by 5 or 6 adults, and they desided to aggro you when your mask scent broke. Without "dabbling" CHs would only be found in steeming piles that dotted the landscape of Endor, Dathomir, etc...
Ok, I will shut up and crawl back into a hole with my pets, and vibro-lance.
i have 2 master doc chars - there was a problem with dabbling in doc. but that was not the fault of the "dabblers" but some bug in the healing calculation making a 4000 doc heal as much as a master doc. this is what brings problems between masters and dabblers - if there is no or very few benefit in mastering a profession. this was fixed for doc and its still one of the most "dabbled" profession because of its general usefulness - but also giving the masters still some advantage.
i dont see anything wrong in dabbling - everyone usualy spends free SP into suitable professions. i guess a lot of CH dabble in BH-skills like me, as u dont need any prerequisites as CH with a ranged master to become novice BH.
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
What got Ch nerfed was the Word "Pokemon."
What got CH nerfed was the over reaction of a few of us old timers that did not have the foresight to know that the game is not even fully explored (Meaning we did not know about Armor or Buffs).
What got CH nerfed was the over reaction of the community.
Thats why you must fight the good fight against nerf herders and PVP Non-hackers
Yes thats right, they over looked the game.. CH was an easy profession to level cause... you got strong fast... so it became the FOTM right away and everyone dashed to the profession so they can be the first one to start whiping peoples butts....Who knew TKM would be strong when you mastered it, or Buffs could be so great, or how powerful a WS can make some weapons.. this stuff came in time and instead of SOE saying well give the game time and people will catch up and forget about CH, or even nerfing it then bringing it back when people moved on... people started getting bad and calling it Pokemon Wars... That got SOE mad I guess and they started nerfing us, without mercy. So like 8 months later... everyone is runnnign around as a TKM and Master Doctor.. peopel are soloing krayts and PVP was getting out of hand again... but where were those CH? Most were gone but the ones who loved the profession for the real reason, they were out on corellia trailing circles around Lord Nyax for about5 months hoping that the elusive Great Plains Stalker would apear, and they might get a chance to get that baby they always wanted, so they can march around corellia and people would say wow that is a cool pet, I never seen one before. And they kept playing as CH regardless of how strong....
So because of those whiny $#%#^ and the fact that sony screwed up, we got nerfed to early in the game to make a difference. We actually stood a chance in pvp once....
I also am trying to figure out if sony ever thought of everyone and thier moms going jedi when they had the big idea of patch 9 and 10? The holocron grind not only worked better cause it forced people to be different professions if they wanted ot be jedi, it also FORCED the jedi to hide, and grind alone like a jedi should. They couldnt own nuthing, It was more star warsy jedish...... I think this game had the right idea from the start and would have been fine, but there will always be exploiters and people who want to get good fast. I wonder if "nerf buffs" ever came to mind when they got out of hand? I mean we didnt actually NEED them, there were people called chefs, and smugglers who could do the same thing in a fair way.... oh well... nuthing we can do now but play this game with the WORST leveling system in gaming and I hate leveling systems.. it killed alot of the funnest points in this game.. and resistances on pets and armor and weapon attacks, so much that was so great now just thrown into what we have now......
Ever think of putting the special system we have now into the old CH? Like the lower level pets we had, with resistances and trainable specials and stuff.... would be awesome. Cause we wouldnt just tame something for its special, but maybe its heat resistance would pay off so i will teach it this and this, who cares if its a pig it will help me agains a commando................
/2cents
Holy Crap! Calm down man!
If you are referring to my post in another thread I was JOKING!
Everyone in that thread understood I was joking too. I guess you need to take a pill or something. Just chill out man! Geez.
BTW here's what I posted in response to someone who said they were going CH/BH:
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Message Edited by Grambacca on 08-30-2005 01:19 PM
There is nothing wrong with dabblers. If someone wants to be a "jack of all trades but master of none" thats fine with me.
Some of the things you listed were needed fixes though. Like the Bio-Engineered pet thing. It never really was fixed until the CU hit, but having something that is CL10 and has as much health as almost any wild creature in the game is definately borked. Basically meant that anyone who ponnied up the money for one could have free creature handler skills. Yes, a real master would have a pet that was slightly better in HAM and had better resists, but frankly that small increase wasn't really worth it considering all the skill points spent just for that small increase. That CL10 creature was more than enough to handle everyday tanking needs, especially since you would have a full skill set of other combat skills rather than using half on just the pet. There's no logic in getting the high perks of a profession without actually spending points in that profession. That would be like having the same effectiveness at wielding a rifle as someone who is a 3-3-3-3 Rifleman by only mastering Pistoleer.
The level 15 down to level 10 thing wasn't a big deal. That was before BE pets, and at that time some of the CL15 pets were too good to give as "free help". It also didn't really make sense that someone who was a novice handler couldn't take anything more than someone with no creature knowledge whatsoever.
The armor thing was an across the board of all creatures thing, and needed to equalize differences. At that point there were pets that could take on a creature at double their level and come out on top, just because they happen to have a certain armor rating and specials. Really made no sense, and it also meant that everyone in the world was using 1 or 2 pets simply because nothing else could stand up to their level.
I honestly don't see where your coming from complaining that everyone keeps nerfing you, most of the history you've listed has nothing to do with you but rather with people who are not even Creature Handlers. If anything the "nerfs" to the non-CH just gives you more reason to be desired, and more purpose to actually having the mastery.
ArchiieBarrett wrote:
Yes thats right, they over looked the game.. CH was an easy profession to level cause... you got strong fast... so it became the FOTM right away and everyone dashed to the profession so they can be the first one to start whiping peoples butts....Who knew TKM would be strong when you mastered it, or Buffs could be so great, or how powerful a WS can make some weapons.. this stuff came in time and instead of SOE saying well give the game time and people will catch up and forget about CH, or even nerfing it then bringing it back when people moved on... people started getting bad and calling it Pokemon Wars... That got SOE mad I guess and they started nerfing us, without mercy. So like 8 months later... everyone is runnnign around as a TKM and Master Doctor.. peopel are soloing krayts and PVP was getting out of hand again... but where were those CH? Most were gone but the ones who loved the profession for the real reason, they were out on corellia trailing circles around Lord Nyax for about5 months hoping that the elusive Great Plains Stalker would apear, and they might get a chance to get that baby they always wanted, so they can march around corellia and people would say wow that is a cool pet, I never seen one before. And they kept playing as CH regardless of how strong....
, and a Ruthless BH):
ArchiieBarrett wrote:
I also am trying to figure out if sony ever thought of everyone and thier moms going jedi when they had the big idea of patch 9 and 10? The holocron grind not only worked better cause it forced people to be different professions if they wanted ot be jedi, it also FORCED the jedi to hide, and grind alone like a jedi should. They couldnt own nuthing, It was more star warsy jedish......
They knew this when they gave us all holo's in December, Hell even I, the most hateful AntiJedi comunity member on this board (Currently), almost went Jedi
ArchiieBarrett wrote:
I think this game had the right idea from the start and would have been fine, but there will always be exploiters and people who want to get good fast. I wonder if "nerf buffs" ever came to mind when they got out of hand? I mean we didnt actually NEED them, there were people called chefs, and smugglers who could do the same thing in a fair way....
ArchiieBarrett wrote:
oh well... nuthing we can do now but play this game with the WORST leveling system in gaming and I hate leveling systems.. it killed alot of the funnest points in this game.. and resistances on pets and armor and weapon attacks, so much that was so great now just thrown into what we have now......
Ever think of putting the special system we have now into the old CH? Like the lower level pets we had, with resistances and trainable specials and stuff.... would be awesome. Cause we wouldnt just tame something for its special, but maybe its heat resistance would pay off so i will teach it this and this, who cares if its a pig it will help me agains a commando................
/2cents
Agree with this also, the Worst parts of the CU (And I support alot of it) is the Creature Level System for MOB's and the capping of Crafter's crafting abilities...........
Message Edited by PyscoJuggalo on 08-30-2005 03:09 PM
The "dabblers" enjoyed CH but for one reason or the other did not obtain a mastery. Usually it involves the professions they most envision their character having or the return on the investment of skillpoints. We welcome these people.
Then there are the "Dabblers". Until December 2003, patch of The Great Nerf, people were picking up Novice CH for a single high-level pet. I think it is a fair assessment of people to say they look for the biggest advantage for the lowest cost. I do not fault them for what the skill system iteself supported, however they literally destroyed our profession.
At the time a level 50 rancor could destroy anything it faced. All you needed was Novice to control one of these. There were proportionately too many people playing CH (Almost 9% compared with 2% or less for all but 2 professions). People were screaming that the game was Pet Wars Galaxies and we needed nerfing. Pokémon comments flooded our board everyday and the people that wanted to be Creature Handlers for the sake of having pets were lumped in and derided with the Dabblers. So the CL system was designed and implemented with the December Patch. I'll be very clear here -- this part of the patch was needed and many Handlers asked for this to bring balance to the profession. There were minutia we might have disagreed with, but overall this was good.
Crafters had not figured out how to make really good armor or weapons yet and creatures across the board were Nerfed. I don't like how easily the word is tossed around for balance changes, however here it is appropriate. They were made to match the existing players. Then buffs were made to work. Then the crafters got the materials they needed and made 90% kinetic armor and killer weapons. Had creatures been left alone, much of the entire system would be close to working (arguable, but PvE would have been significantly more balanced than the year before the CU). Instead we wound up with the need for the CU, which the Great Nerf was supposed to be the beginning of.
Why the resentment from Creature Handlers? Why the need for the CU? Why all this pain?
Because of the Dabblers.
I am always going to resent the Dabblers. I'll be happy to welcome the dabblers, the pet-lovers that don't make the profession their main focus, though.
Seiryuu wrote:
In the history of CH, there have been two types of CH dabblers. The "dabblers" and the "Dabblers".
The "dabblers" enjoyed CH but for one reason or the other did not obtain a mastery. Usually it involves the professions they most envision their character having or the return on the investment of skillpoints. We welcome these people.
Then there are the "Dabblers". Until December 2003, patch of The Great Nerf, people were picking up Novice CH for a single high-level pet. I think it is a fair assessment of people to say they look for the biggest advantage for the lowest cost. I do not fault them for what the skill system iteself supported, however they literally destroyed our profession.
At the time a level 50 rancor could destroy anything it faced. All you needed was Novice to control one of these. There were proportionately too many people playing CH (Almost 9% compared with 2% or less for all but 2 professions). People were screaming that the game was Pet Wars Galaxies and we needed nerfing. Pokémon comments flooded our board everyday and the people that wanted to be Creature Handlers for the sake of having pets were lumped in and derided with the Dabblers. So the CL system was designed and implemented with the December Patch. I'll be very clear here -- this part of the patch was needed and many Handlers asked for this to bring balance to the profession. There were minutia we might have disagreed with, but overall this was good.
Crafters had not figured out how to make really good armor or weapons yet and creatures across the board were Nerfed. I don't like how easily the word is tossed around for balance changes, however here it is appropriate. They were made to match the existing players. Then buffs were made to work. Then the crafters got the materials they needed and made 90% kinetic armor and killer weapons. Had creatures been left alone, much of the entire system would be close to working (arguable, but PvE would have been significantly more balanced than the year before the CU). Instead we wound up with the need for the CU, which the Great Nerf was supposed to be the beginning of.
Why the resentment from Creature Handlers? Why the need for the CU? Why all this pain?
Because of the Dabblers.
I am always going to resent the Dabblers. I'll be happy to welcome the dabblers, the pet-lovers that don't make the profession their main focus, though.
Seiryuu has nailed it, with one minor correction:
The cert system (eliminating novices running around with rancors) was brought online in August of 2003. It was very much needed, because it was utterly ridiculous for a novice CH with no skills aside from /tame to be calling out a rancor and using it to hunt durni or whatever. The Great Nerf was when creatures got whacked senseless with a nerf bat because they were "too tough" for the whine players, and CHs could call them and pwn the whine players.
The other problem with early CH was that, for the most part, it WORKED. Unlike nearly every other elite profession. For example, the DAY that the flamethrower was ungated from restritctive resource requirements, there were INSTANTLY calls for commando to be nerfed. If one of the whine players (who all seem to have migrated to the Jedi profession) got incapped, their FIRST reaction was to rush to the forums and demand that whoever or whatever incapped them be nerfed, immediately.
The Great Nerf was SUPPOSED to be phase I of the combat revamp, which was supposed to be complete over a four month period. What it died was drastically unbalance PvE and led to the monstrosity now known as the CU, pushed out a full 18 months after The Great Nerf.