Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Pets/Vehicles: Reduced call time to 15 seconds.
Galahede wrote:
Pets/Vehicles: Reduced post combat call delay to 30 seconds.
OK, here we arecelebrating the fact that we don't have the 30/60 sec timers anymore (recently on TS)... but...
Why is there a 15 second delay? Once again, it doesn't make sense.
A pistoleer can start shooting immediately, yet we have to wait for 15 seconds to pull out our weapons. (OK, so you may think that our pets aren't really weapons but tanks so....)
A pistoleer can put on his armor immediately, yet we have to wait for 15 seconds to pull out our defensive weapon.
So I ask once again, why do we need this 15 second delay?
Plus... if we get aggro'd, we can't call out the pet. We have to run for our lives until we're safe, then wait 15 seconds to pull out the pet. I still don't get it. If I had a valid explanation (and there could be one), I would like to know what it is.
It just seems that sometimes, Star Wars Galaxies tries to throw in "work" instead of "fun" or "leisure activity".
Please enlighten me.
ThunderHeart Writes:
Correct. That was one and there were others. You could store pets right before they died and also do things like get into a duel with someone and then whip out a pet and other "suprise!" poke-pet maneuvers.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=159021&highlight
ThunderHeart Writes:
When you call a pet, there will be a delay until it comes out.
When you store a pet, there will be a delay before it dissappears.
This is to prevent a myriad of combat griefing. Basically it is so people can't be surprised in duels, PvP and other situations where a "surprise pet" can create unfair "poke-type" attacks.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=155151&highlight=poke#M155151
ThunderHeart Writes:
Sorry, thats a no go.
In movies, everything is laid out and staged, but in the real world, people do what people do. They don't listen to some director whowants a good camera shot in order to tell a good story,people do what they want to do to have fun.
If you were around on Test Center during the publish, you would have seen what happens when we left it that way - - on TC players could just leave vehicles out...and they did. That ability is justone of those game design items where imagination and reality just don't mix.
There were hundreds and hundreds of vehicles cluttering starports, cities and all sorts of locations where players go to hang out. Players would leave their vehicle, go do something and in minutes, the player traffic of hundreds left behind more vehicles than any videocard could render.
Then the frame rate chugs.
Having all players leave vehicles out all the time is simply not going to happen because it will pollute the game world with vehicles sitting around chewing up frame rate and interfering with gameplay. Its a great idea in practice, but not one that works in reality.
As far as the poke-pets thing goes with combat. I read a lot of posts that said that and gave that feedback to the devs and we've added a 30 second delay before you pull something out to prevent combat grief and exploits.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=csystems&message.id=2443&highlight=poke#M2443
OK, should I go on?
Please say no cause reading ThunderHeart's "wisdom" is making my IQ drop 
Message Edited by SomeUser on 03-04-2004 04:55 AM
Vezek Nice roundup Some.
I just wish TH would try playing a CH so he can see it first hand instead of "I read a lot of posts that said..." which he passes on to the Dev's as gospel...5 mins as a CH and I think he'd realise howwrong thesecommentsare when applied to a CH (especially CH that took it to have protection while out harvesting, sampling or other crafter type profession).
I can, however, see that vehicles (and vehicle only) should have a 15 second call time pre-battle. Imagine a Commando flame DoTting you and riding off on a Swoop till you crisp down a bit, then coming back to finish it off. the same thing doesn't apply to mounts as they slow down during combat (which is one of the reasons no one uses them).
This is not a TH rant, he works his butt off and I honestly believe he is trying to improve things, I just don't think he always get's the full info on an issue and I don't think he's tried the "new improved" CH version himself, especially in PvP.
SomeUser wrote:
ThunderHeart Writes:
Correct. That was one and there were others. You could store pets right before they died and also do things like get into a duel with someone and then whip out a pet and other "suprise!" poke-pet maneuvers.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=159021&highlight
ThunderHeart Writes:
When you call a pet, there will be a delay until it comes out.
When you store a pet, there will be a delay before it dissappears.
This is to prevent a myriad of combat griefing. Basically it is so people can't be surprised in duels, PvP and other situations where a "surprise pet" can create unfair "poke-type" attacks.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=155151&highlight=poke#M155151
ThunderHeart Writes:
Sorry, thats a no go.
In movies, everything is laid out and staged, but in the real world, people do what people do. They don't listen to some director whowants a good camera shot in order to tell a good story,people do what they want to do to have fun.
If you were around on Test Center during the publish, you would have seen what happens when we left it that way - - on TC players could just leave vehicles out...and they did. That ability is justone of those game design items where imagination and reality just don't mix.
There were hundreds and hundreds of vehicles cluttering starports, cities and all sorts of locations where players go to hang out. Players would leave their vehicle, go do something and in minutes, the player traffic of hundreds left behind more vehicles than any videocard could render.
Then the frame rate chugs.
Having all players leave vehicles out all the time is simply not going to happen because it will pollute the game world with vehicles sitting around chewing up frame rate and interfering with gameplay. Its a great idea in practice, but not one that works in reality.
As far as the poke-pets thing goes with combat. I read a lot of posts that said that and gave that feedback to the devs and we've added a 30 second delay before you pull something out to prevent combat grief and exploits.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=csystems&message.id=2443&highlight=poke#M2443
OK, should I go on?
Please say no cause reading ThunderHeart's "wisdom" is making my IQ drop
Message Edited by SomeUser on 03-04-2004 04:55 AM
meroc wrote:
Nice roundup Some.
I just wish TH would try playing a CH so he can see it first hand instead of "I read a lot of posts that said..." which he passes on to the Dev's as gospel...5 mins as a CH and I think he'd realise howwrong thesecommentsare when applied to a CH (especially CH that took it to have protection while out harvesting, sampling or other crafter type profession).
I can, however, see that vehicles (and vehicle only) should have a 15 second call time pre-battle. Imagine a Commando flame DoTting you and riding off on a Swoop till you crisp down a bit, then coming back to finish it off. the same thing doesn't apply to mounts as they slow down during combat (which is one of the reasons no one uses them).
This is not a TH rant, he works his butt off and I honestly believe he is trying to improve things, I just don't think he always get's the full info on an issue and I don't think he's tried the "new improved" CH version himself, especially in PvP.
I agree with you 110%. There is no use for a timer, other then maybe combat, for pets. Vehicles YES, pets no.
TH, while you are being much more diplomatic then I would be, has obviously never played the CH profession beyond beta and, and you said, passes info on to the devs like it is gospel... The things he says obviously are comments from newbie ranters and whinners who likely got own by some CH back in the day when CH was actually PvPable.
The bottom line is this:
- There is no timer on pet calling in town (other then combat).
- Town is were most PvP battle happen (atleast on my server of Bria)
Ihave yet to see MCH use some "poke" exploit that makes them PvP gods.
Some user,
WOW what a great post, it proves how out of touchTH is with the ch profession. It also further proves that his reasoning behind the timer is flawed, and it reflects ch of the past, not the "new" nerfed, Err I mean the Balanced CH, that can no longer do any of these sneak attacks. But the real funny thing is how a person can go around in noob clothes with a cdef and the title novice scout and hit a macro and equip all his armor and flamethrower at will with no restriction. is this not a "sneak" attack?
And another point, TH himself stated that only 15% of the players PVP, so why do they keep balancing the game for the minority? hmmmm.
It never ceases to amaze me that new postersbring up basically the same arguments about the timers that those of us who have been posting about this for some time have said.
Well, that's not true. It's because we have facts and logic on our side, and TH is posting out of what is all too obviously ignorance.
Message Edited by SioBabble on 03-04-2004 06:51 AM
It is just a testiment to how out of touch TH and the Dev team are with the CH profession... As you pointed out, new and old users alike all see the EXACT same thing.
SioBabble wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me that new postersbring up basically the same arguments about the timers that those of us who have been posting about this for some time have said.
Well, that's not true. It's because we have facts and logic on our side, and TH is posting out of what is all too obviously ignorance.
Message Edited by SioBabble on 03-04-2004 06:51 AM
Castigula,
And another point, TH himself stated that only 15% of the players PVP, so why do they keep balancing the game for the minority? hmmmm.
I gotta chime in here and agree that TH is grasping at straws for a good reason for this timer.
More like the vehicle/pet calling code is the same, so it would require extra work for devs to give vehicles a call timer and not pets. Thus, TH is told to come up with a good sounding reason why both get it, and try to make the community believe in it.
I'd say you hit the nail right on the head with your analysis of TH's reasoning. We all admit that a call timer on a vehicle makes sense, but not pets.
However, for some reason the Devs chose not to admit that putting vehicles and pets on seperate timers would be too much hassle. Instead they try to come up with some flawed reasoning why it should apply.
When will the Devs realize that we as gamers can see what is truth and what is dog-doo. The reasoning TH gave may have been true at one time, but certainly not now.
Galahede wrote:
Plus... if we get aggro'd, we can't call out the pet. We have to run for our lives until we're safe, then wait 15 seconds to pull out the pet. I still don't get it. If I had a valid explanation (and there could be one), I would like to know what it is.
Something has been nagging at me, and I am hoping that someone who has tried this out on test can clarify for me.
At first glance, I thought the combat delay was the same old same old that we have always had.... but I have seen it posted as (now) "30 second delay after you end combat". This sounds like something different, than our normal "can't store for 60 seconds after the pet ends combat".
Is this a totally new timer? (the combat one, I know the timer to call is totally new).
If it is based on the player being in combat, then the scenerio by Glahede would have him run for his life to break agro... then wait the (now) 30 seconds after he broke agro, and then the (now) 15 seconds waiting on the pet to appear. Which is 45 seconds, still less than our 60 seconds to store a pet after it was in combat....
But is that 60 second pet battle timer being replaced or is it still there? Meaning if he had out his one big pet, gained agro, ran until he could break agro for both him and his pet... Does he then need to wait the 60 seconds to store the pet after its agro broke (in the meantime his personal 30 seconds goes by also), store the pet and then wait the 15 seconds for the new one to appear? This comes to 75 seconds total.
Anyway, I hope I am just reading too much into it, at first glance I thought I understood it, but now I am just not sure.
Correct. That was one and there were others. You could store pets right before they died and also do things like get into a duel with someone and then whip out a pet and other "suprise!" poke-pet maneuvers.
On test right now they have halved both timers. The 60 second timer AFTER combat to store a pet is now 30 seconds. The 30 seconds to CALL (or BEFORE combat) a pet is now 15 seconds. This is still on TEST CENTER only. These are both without a camp being necessary. With a camp the timer for calling is removed, as it is now.
So, yes if it goes to live as it's now being tested it would be faster to "reload" with a new pet than is currently possible. It would still be nice if the 15 second timer for calling was done away with or reduced though, but as was mentioned earlier since the vehicles are treated as "pets" (heck, everything is treated as a pet: droids, vehicles, faction pets, BE pets, wild pets) its something we may have to live with.
Since they are leaving camps as they are though, its not too bad of a compromise. WAY better than the proposed 60/30 timer! Now if they could just leave vehicles on the 15 second timer and get pets down to 0 seconds to call (as they currently are in Cities now) we'd all be happy!