Community Relations Archive
Thread: SOE you just did it for EQ2, where's our extra character slots ?
Jenden wrote:
As far as multiple slots per server goes, the reason this works in other games but not SWG is that we've got a player based economy. This allows people that want to set up a business to be Droid engineers, or Weaponsmiths, Armorsmiths, etc. Add in multiple character slots and all of a sudden everyone is picking up some of these crafting professions just so they don't have to track down/pay another character to make their equipment. It already happens some now with people buying multiple accounts, but the number is limited since most people aren't willing to fork over extra cash just so they don't have to go visit someone's shop.
"used to have,"tell that to us Docs who just had our crafting/profession businesses destroyed arbitrarily by a game revamp. So much for player-based economy, its integrity was just thrown in the dumpster. If I keep my remaining accounts, I sure won't be investing my time and effort into crafting ever again, can't trust that SOE won't come along and make it all worthless a day later again. Have to live "here today, gone tomorrow" now with SOE, cause they've just destroyed the trust that we can count on our hard, hard, hard, prolongued work being worth something in the end, rather than ended in worth.
Amazing to see you continue to promote the SOE SWG song in lieu of the utter destruction that is going on around us. Unbury thy head.
DancingRhodian wrote:
Jenden wrote:
As far as multiple slots per server goes, the reason this works in other games but not SWG is that we've got a player based economy. This allows people that want to set up a business to be Droid engineers, or Weaponsmiths, Armorsmiths, etc. Add in multiple character slots and all of a sudden everyone is picking up some of these crafting professions just so they don't have to track down/pay another character to make their equipment. It already happens some now with people buying multiple accounts, but the number is limited since most people aren't willing to fork over extra cash just so they don't have to go visit someone's shop.
"used to have,"tell that to us Docs who just had our crafting/profession businesses destroyed arbitrarily by a game revamp. So much for player-based economy, its integrity was just thrown in the dumpster. If I keep my remaining accounts, I sure won't be investing my time and effort into crafting ever again, can't trust that SOE won't come along and make it all worthless a day later again. Have to live "here today, gone tomorrow" now with SOE, cause they've just destroyed the trust that we can count on our hard, hard, hard, prolongued work being worth something in the end, rather than ended in worth.
Amazing to see you continue to promote the SOE SWG song in lieu of the utter destruction that is going on around us. Unbury thy head.
SOE's All New SWG Revamp Minions
Jenden wrote:
It already happens some now with people buying multiple accounts, but the number is limited since most people aren't willing to fork over extra cash just so they don't have to go visit someone's shop.
DancingRhodian wrote:
Jenden wrote:
As far as multiple slots per server goes, the reason this works in other games but not SWG is that we've got a player based economy. This allows people that want to set up a business to be Droid engineers, or Weaponsmiths, Armorsmiths, etc. Add in multiple character slots and all of a sudden everyone is picking up some of these crafting professions just so they don't have to track down/pay another character to make their equipment. It already happens some now with people buying multiple accounts, but the number is limited since most people aren't willing to fork over extra cash just so they don't have to go visit someone's shop."used to have," tell that to us Docs who just had our crafting/profession businesses destroyed arbitrarily by a game revamp. So much for player-based economy, its integrity was just thrown in the dumpster. If I keep my remaining accounts, I sure won't be investing my time and effort into crafting ever again, can't trust that SOE won't come along and make it all worthless a day later again. Have to live "here today, gone tomorrow" now with SOE, cause they've just destroyed the trust that we can count on our hard, hard, hard, prolongued work being worth something in the end, rather than ended in worth.
Amazing to see you continue to promote the SOE SWG song in lieu of the utter destruction that is going on around us. Unbury thy head.
Where have I ever said I was happy with the direction SOE was taking the crafting professions?
As far as the doctor changes... while I definately don't aggree with the changes they actually bring things a bit more in line with a true player based economy. Doctors were turned into doctors instead of a hybrid doctor/pharmacist, and the job of crafting those meds was given to another profession that was already a crafting system. No where does it violate the idea that everything in the game should be provided by players, and yet at the same time it reinforces that players should be dependent on other players. For those that were more interested and making and selling meds, they could take up BE, for those that had no interest in making the meds, they could take up doc.
Again, not saying I agree with them, just showing that there is some justification.
Jenden wrote:
DancingRhodian wrote:
Jenden wrote:
As far as multiple slots per server goes, the reason this works in other games but not SWG is that we've got a player based economy. This allows people that want to set up a business to be Droid engineers, or Weaponsmiths, Armorsmiths, etc. Add in multiple character slots and all of a sudden everyone is picking up some of these crafting professions just so they don't have to track down/pay another character to make their equipment. It already happens some now with people buying multiple accounts, but the number is limited since most people aren't willing to fork over extra cash just so they don't have to go visit someone's shop."used to have," tell that to us Docs who just had our crafting/profession businesses destroyed arbitrarily by a game revamp. So much for player-based economy, its integrity was just thrown in the dumpster. If I keep my remaining accounts, I sure won't be investing my time and effort into crafting ever again, can't trust that SOE won't come along and make it all worthless a day later again. Have to live "here today, gone tomorrow" now with SOE, cause they've just destroyed the trust that we can count on our hard, hard, hard, prolongued work being worth something in the end, rather than ended in worth.
Amazing to see you continue to promote the SOE SWG song in lieu of the utter destruction that is going on around us. Unbury thy head.
Where have I ever said I was happy with the direction SOE was taking the crafting professions?
As far as the doctor changes... while I definately don't aggree with the changes they actually bring things a bit more in line with a true player based economy. Doctors were turned into doctors instead of a hybrid doctor/pharmacist, and the job of crafting those meds was given to another profession that was already a crafting system. No where does it violate the idea that everything in the game should be provided by players, and yet at the same time it reinforces that players should be dependent on other players. For those that were more interested and making and selling meds, they could take up BE, for those that had no interest in making the meds, they could take up doc.
Again, not saying I agree with them, just showing that there is some justification.
I salute your honesty, sir.
Too bad the Devs won't be so forthcoming.
Well, they shall come clean, or the Dark Side shall consume them.
Jenden wrote:
As far as multiple slots per server goes, the reason this works in other games but not SWG is that we've got a player based economy. This allows people that want to set up a business to be Droid engineers, or Weaponsmiths, Armorsmiths, etc. Add in multiple character slots and all of a sudden everyone is picking up some of these crafting professions just so they don't have to track down/pay another character to make their equipment. It already happens some now with people buying multiple accounts, but the number is limited since most people aren't willing to fork over extra cash just so they don't have to go visit someone's shop.
There is some truth in what you say, but only to a point. What about guilds? What about other MMORPG's with player-based economies like EQ2 (yes I know EQ2 has a lot of npc-vendor shops, but all the good stuff is made by players)?
You’re using a "slippery slope" scenario to argue that if SOE gave us the ability to play multiple characters on the same server the economy would collapse. Your logic, to put it mildly, is flawed. I'm not trying to flame or insult you, just prove that your argument is unreasonable by the logical use of basic laws of economics (primarily the law of supply and demand).
You're argument is based on the assumption that the majority of players, once given this ability, would create crafting professions for the sole purpose of making their own armor, weapons, food, etc...
Rebuttal 1: Although it is probably tempting to most players, not all players see the time it takes to grind through crafting professions as a worthwhile investment. Not to mention the credits required to do so.
Rebuttal 2: Additionally, your argument implies that the only reason that more people don't have more accounts is that they cannot financially afford them. This cannot be the only reason due to the sheer number of people who play Star Wars Galaxies. Time and effort spent on additional characters, either on another server, or on the same server using another account is a huge investment. In addition, there is the inconvenience of multiple login names & passwords, keeping track of multiple CD keys for each account can be seen as not worth the effort. And, of course, there are the people who are casual gamers and just don't care or play enough to need multiple accounts.
Rebuttal 3: All crafting professions rely on a variety of resources that are spread throughout the galaxy. It highly improbable for a single person, even with multiple characters, to set up enough harvesters to get every possible resource they needed due to the sheer amount of time, energy, credits, and money it would cost to do so. Only the most extreme of power players would be able to accomplish this, and thus the number of people who have this ability would be small. The cost is shifted in terms of dollars to that of time. The inherit improbability of such a scenario and the amount of time needed to set up such an operation would keep the amount of people who did so to a minimum.
Rebuttal 4 (Another perspective of Rebuttal 3): This influx of crafting professions (if there are a whole lot) they would need to buy the resources from other players. In terms of the credits needed to buy resources, the player would have to sell his or her finished goods in order to turn a profit, or spend real-world money in illegally buying credits online (note, the purchase of credits online could result, at the very least in the banning of your account, don't do it.).
Even if the number of crafters increases a whole bunch, the laws of supply and demand would keep the economy healthy. The economy wouldn’t collapse; it would shift to accommodate the influx of new crafters by the laws of supply and demand. The supply of refined goods such as food, guns, armor, etc increases, so the demand for raw materials increases. Even if the economy were to become flooded with weapons and armor (as if it isn't already) it would increase competition amongst vendors to provide better products at lower prices (the signs of a healthy economy, that is if you're a capitalist).
Again, I am not trying to flame or insult you, just to prove that your arguments are incorrect.
RighteousDeath wrote:
Jenden wrote:
As far as multiple slots per server goes, the reason this works in other games but not SWG is that we've got a player based economy. This allows people that want to set up a business to be Droid engineers, or Weaponsmiths, Armorsmiths, etc. Add in multiple character slots and all of a sudden everyone is picking up some of these crafting professions just so they don't have to track down/pay another character to make their equipment. It already happens some now with people buying multiple accounts, but the number is limited since most people aren't willing to fork over extra cash just so they don't have to go visit someone's shop.There is some truth in what you say, but only to a point. What about guilds? What about other MMORPG's with player-based economies like EQ2 (yes I know EQ2 has a lot of npc-vendor shops, but all the good stuff is made by players)?
You’re using a "slippery slope" scenario to argue that if SOE gave us the ability to play multiple characters on the same server the economy would collapse. Your logic, to put it mildly, is flawed. I'm not trying to flame or insult you, just prove that your argument is unreasonable by the logical use of basic laws of economics (primarily the law of supply and demand).
You're argument is based on the assumption that the majority of players, once given this ability, would create crafting professions for the sole purpose of making their own armor, weapons, food, etc...
Rebuttal 1: Although it is probably tempting to most players, not all players see the time it takes to grind through crafting professions as a worthwhile investment. Not to mention the credits required to do so.
As far as time investment, most crafting professions take 1-2 days to master if you have the resources, which is a one time investment. As for the credit cost of the resources, you can always find places (at least on my server) selling for 1cpu (or less if you find a good deal), so for most crafting professions you're looking at under a million credits (which isn't all that big of a sum of money for a lot of players and is, again, a one time investment)Rebuttal 2: Additionally, your argument implies that the only reason that more people don't have more accounts is that they cannot financially afford them. This cannot be the only reason due to the sheer number of people who play Star Wars Galaxies. Time and effort spent on additional characters, either on another server, or on the same server using another account is a huge investment. In addition, there is the inconvenience of multiple login names & passwords, keeping track of multiple CD keys for each account can be seen as not worth the effort. And, of course, there are the people who are casual gamers and just don't care or play enough to need multiple accounts.
I believe that the main reason isn't so much that they can't afford another account, its that it isn't worth spending the real life money for the convenience. However, if they didn't have to spend that extra money, then its purely a convenience factor. Instead of a question of why should I pay extra per month to make this myself, its why wouldn't I make this myself since its not costing me anything.Rebuttal 3: All crafting professions rely on a variety of resources that are spread throughout the galaxy. It highly improbable for a single person, even with multiple characters, to set up enough harvesters to get every possible resource they needed due to the sheer amount of time, energy, credits, and money it would cost to do so. Only the most extreme of power players would be able to accomplish this, and thus the number of people who have this ability would be small. The cost is shifted in terms of dollars to that of time. The inherit improbability of such a scenario and the amount of time needed to set up such an operation would keep the amount of people who did so to a minimum.
Until someone buys a stack of 100k resources of each type they need, which for many crafting professions would last them (since they're just making gear for themselves and maybe a friend or two) a very long time. Most weapons use under 1k resources total, most dorids use under 1k resources total, I can't remember the exact numbers on armor but its similar. These things aren't exactly huge resource sinks.Rebuttal 4 (Another perspective of Rebuttal 3): This influx of crafting professions (if there are a whole lot) they would need to buy the resources from other players. In terms of the credits needed to buy resources, the player would have to sell his or her finished goods in order to turn a profit, or spend real-world money in illegally buying credits online (note, the purchase of credits online could result, at the very least in the banning of your account, don't do it.).
There are a number of ways they could make money aside from selling their goods. Selling one quality loot drop would fund their crafter for life, running regular missions would easily sustain them. Plus you factor in that they're saving money since they're not buying their gear from ther people at often 100x the cost they pay now in resources... and they make up the difference from the grind pretty quick.Even if the number of crafters increases a whole bunch, the laws of supply and demand would keep the economy healthy. The economy wouldn’t collapse; it would shift to accommodate the influx of new crafters by the laws of supply and demand. The supply of refined goods such as food, guns, armor, etc increases, so the demand for raw materials increases. Even if the economy were to become flooded with weapons and armor (as if it isn't already) it would increase competition amongst vendors to provide better products at lower prices (the signs of a healthy economy, that is if you're a capitalist).
Again, I am not trying to flame or insult you, just to prove that your arguments are incorrect.
You're running under the assumption that these people are looking to sell their goods. The end result is that demand goes down, supply stays the same (or maybe goes up since a couple people will undoubtedly offload some extra stuff they made thinking they can make a quick credit), and the economy suffers.
In my experience many players will do anything and everything they can to be independent (or nearly independent) of other players, even to the point where it takes up more of their time.
You lose credibility when you don't acknowledge the other's point of view or points. I see someone with a narrow view and perspective, and my first reaction is to dismiss it. Forcing myself to push deeper, I still only see a narrow view. There is no black and white here, no cut and dried, so step down off the pulpit.
Jenden wrote:
RighteousDeath wrote:
Jenden wrote:
As far as multiple slots per server goes, the reason this works in other games but not SWG is that we've got a player based economy. This allows people that want to set up a business to be Droid engineers, or Weaponsmiths, Armorsmiths, etc. Add in multiple character slots and all of a sudden everyone is picking up some of these crafting professions just so they don't have to track down/pay another character to make their equipment. It already happens some now with people buying multiple accounts, but the number is limited since most people aren't willing to fork over extra cash just so they don't have to go visit someone's shop.
There is some truth in what you say, but only to a point. What about guilds? What about other MMORPG's with player-based economies like EQ2 (yes I know EQ2 has a lot of npc-vendor shops, but all the good stuff is made by players)?
You’re using a "slippery slope" scenario to argue that if SOE gave us the ability to play multiple characters on the same server the economy would collapse. Your logic, to put it mildly, is flawed. I'm not trying to flame or insult you, just prove that your argument is unreasonable by the logical use of basic laws of economics (primarily the law of supply and demand).
You're argument is based on the assumption that the majority of players, once given this ability, would create crafting professions for the sole purpose of making their own armor, weapons, food, etc...
Rebuttal 1: Although it is probably tempting to most players, not all players see the time it takes to grind through crafting professions as a worthwhile investment. Not to mention the credits required to do so.
As far as time investment, most crafting professions take 1-2 days to master if you have the resources, which is a one time investment. As for the credit cost of the resources, you can always find places (at least on my server) selling for 1cpu (or less if you find a good deal), so for most crafting professions you're looking at under a million credits (which isn't all that big of a sum of money for a lot of players and is, again, a one time investment)
Rebuttal 2: Additionally, your argument implies that the only reason that more people don't have more accounts is that they cannot financially afford them. This cannot be the only reason due to the sheer number of people who play Star Wars Galaxies. Time and effort spent on additional characters, either on another server, or on the same server using another account is a huge investment. In addition, there is the inconvenience of multiple login names & passwords, keeping track of multiple CD keys for each account can be seen as not worth the effort. And, of course, there are the people who are casual gamers and just don't care or play enough to need multiple accounts.
I believe that the main reason isn't so much that they can't afford another account, its that it isn't worth spending the real life money for the convenience. However, if they didn't have to spend that extra money, then its purely a convenience factor. Instead of a question of why should I pay extra per month to make this myself, its why wouldn't I make this myself since its not costing me anything.
Rebuttal 3: All crafting professions rely on a variety of resources that are spread throughout the galaxy. It highly improbable for a single person, even with multiple characters, to set up enough harvesters to get every possible resource they needed due to the sheer amount of time, energy, credits, and money it would cost to do so. Only the most extreme of power players would be able to accomplish this, and thus the number of people who have this ability would be small. The cost is shifted in terms of dollars to that of time. The inherit improbability of such a scenario and the amount of time needed to set up such an operation would keep the amount of people who did so to a minimum.
Until someone buys a stack of 100k resources of each type they need, which for many crafting professions would last them (since they're just making gear for themselves and maybe a friend or two) a very long time. Most weapons use under 1k resources total, most dorids use under 1k resources total, I can't remember the exact numbers on armor but its similar. These things aren't exactly huge resource sinks.
Rebuttal 4 (Another perspective of Rebuttal 3): This influx of crafting professions (if there are a whole lot) they would need to buy the resources from other players. In terms of the credits needed to buy resources, the player would have to sell his or her finished goods in order to turn a profit, or spend real-world money in illegally buying credits online (note, the purchase of credits online could result, at the very least in the banning of your account, don't do it.).
There are a number of ways they could make money aside from selling their goods. Selling one quality loot drop would fund their crafter for life, running regular missions would easily sustain them. Plus you factor in that they're saving money since they're not buying their gear from ther people at often 100x the cost they pay now in resources... and they make up the difference from the grind pretty quick.
Even if the number of crafters increases a whole bunch, the laws of supply and demand would keep the economy healthy. The economy wouldn’t collapse; it would shift to accommodate the influx of new crafters by the laws of supply and demand. The supply of refined goods such as food, guns, armor, etc increases, so the demand for raw materials increases. Even if the economy were to become flooded with weapons and armor (as if it isn't already) it would increase competition amongst vendors to provide better products at lower prices (the signs of a healthy economy, that is if you're a capitalist).
Again, I am not trying to flame or insult you, just to prove that your arguments are incorrect.
You're running under the assumption that these people are looking to sell their goods. The end result is that demand goes down, supply stays the same (or maybe goes up since a couple people will undoubtedly offload some extra stuff they made thinking they can make a quick credit), and the economy suffers.
In my experience many players will do anything and everything they can to be independent (or nearly independent) of other players, even to the point where it takes up more of their time.
But the main reason for not doing this is that EQ2 allows you to craft and adventure with one character. So a lot of people don't take advantage of the extra slots. Thus, they are offered for free (low demand = low cost). But SWG basically forces you to choose to be a good crafter/merchant or an effective combat profession. So there is a high demand there for extra slots to do both sets. Of course, now they're not going to offer them to us, so that we'll purchase another monthly account and add more profit to the company. It's a smart economic move. If we were allowed to have seperate "crafting" and "combat" skill points, there would be far fewer accounts especially since we can alter our characters mid-game. Also, EQ1 had multiple slots and they would have recieved immense heat from the community if they didn't allow more than one toon per server. Since SWG is/was a completely new type of MMO, they could afford to make new decisions (like only one character slot).