Community Relations Archive
Thread: It was raised before Publish 20 went live, yet another major bug goes live.
Adval
Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:33 am
#79
Happens to me alot too. Gets annoying when you write a long post and then go to HTML editor to link like 5 addresses and then "Incorrect HTML, fixing" and you need to redo it all again...
Oracle74 wrote:
It's not just dev posts.. nearly every time I reply and quote, I have to submit twice. It "fixes" it for me the first time and then it works the second.
Actually happened with this post too... It seems to add an empty line just over the quote when it "fixes" the HTML.
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan
Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:12 am
#80
Tiggs wrote:
ImageAccess wrote:
And btw, stop using the funked up html styles...for gods sake it would be nice to quote you on occastion tiggs...
I am not sure why you are having trouble. I am hitting reply and quote post just like everyone else does.
Sometimes when I use the quote button, instead of it going into the textarea, instead it reloads the page and puts the stuff I wanted to quote at the top of the page center alignment. I refresh the page and usually that clears it up. It happens rarely, but just frequently enough to be annoying.
Gelo2
Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:14 am
#81
Yes, the html post has some bugs.
I can create a brand new message and switch to edit as HTML and try and post and 90% is gives me some error the first time about invalid flags.
Then it removes them for me and I have to hit post again.
This is irratating, but hardly a huge problem.
CyberFett
Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:15 am
#82
Tiggs wrote:
We agree with your wants. We are going to be focusing on smaller/cleaner publishes because quality means much more then quantity.
Ecnirp wrote:
The Experimentationbug (experimentations not updating until the item is crafted)was raised days ago, bugged on the TC and posted on the TC bug threads - yet its gone live, and to all crafters it seems.
Why did another majorly bugged publish go live?
It seems each major bug\bugs brought by each new publishis raised before it goes live and yet it still gets pushed out.
This is not what the player base wants.
Please....
1) Focus on fixing all the existing major bugs before any more publishes go out.
2) Please please, don't push out publishes you know have major bugs - do you think we really mind waiting a few days for a bug to get fixed before a publish goes live?
/sign
Not directed at you Tiggs, I know you are just doing your job.
We have heard this statement so many times before.
The Quanity is not the issue. It is the Quality that is. You can put out a smaller publish and if you do not fix the bugs before it goes to live it is not any different.
The issue is not fixing the bugs and pushing it out to live. Not the size of the publishes.
Gelo2
Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:53 am
#83
Tiggs wrote:
Ekymer wrote:
appently no one ever reads the bug threads, not on TC nor on Live. Fanfest has shown several times that no bugs get forwarded to the DEVs.
Every day the Live, TC and Correspondent bug threads are entered into a excel spreadsheet. They are then sent on to QA to be reproduced and assigned a bug number. From there they are then prioritized and filtered out to the Leads. Members of the Dev team will not know all bugs that are happening. They are assigned bugs from their Lead and those are what they work on. So your statement is semi true, Devs are not shown all the bugs that are entered however, they are told about bugs that impact them.
So, what I gather from the bug and the info above is.
The bug was recieved, It was put into excel spreadsheet. But some "lead" someplace didn't think it warranted to be fixed before the live push or the time of a developer to fix.
Sounds like the "leads" are where the issues area, in both meanings.
BioEngine
Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:26 pm
#84
Adhesive mesh not having an effect was raised before several publishes, and has been broken for 3 months.
Are Ranger / Scout roots too powerful?
ImageAccess
Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:53 pm
#85
Yet when most people believe its better suited to a tuesday tip, we feel you're insulting us badly. Most look forward to the friday feature for information. A simple search would garner the information you've posted in the past 3 weeks. Don't play symantics with us on this one. That was poor "credited" information.
Tiggs wrote:
There are many people who did not know about those guides which is why they are featured and will continue to be featured. People invested time to gather the information and create those documents. Give them credit where credit is due please.
There is no written rule on what a Friday feature has to be. Just because it isn't informative to you, doesn't mean it isn't informative to someone else.
Hell, when one of the original authors of one of the guides comes on and says hes not insulted and understands why people are pissed, that should say something. Yes/No?
ImageAccess
Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:54 pm
#86
And btw, stop using the funked up html styles...for gods sake it would be nice to quote you on occastion tiggs...
neutrineaux
Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:03 pm
#87
Tiggs wrote:
ImageAccess wrote:
Yet when most people believe its better suited to a tuesday tip, we feel you're insulting us badly. Most look forward to the friday feature for information. A simple search would garner the information you've posted in the past 3 weeks. Don't play symantics with us on this one. That was poor "credited" information.
Tiggs wrote:
There are many people who did not know about those guides which is why they are featured and will continue to be featured. People invested time to gather the information and create those documents. Give them credit where credit is due please.
There is no written rule on what a Friday feature has to be. Just because it isn't informative to you, doesn't mean it isn't informative to someone else.
Hell, when one of the original authors of one of the guides comes on and says hes not insulted and understands why people are pissed, that should say something. Yes/No?
As you yourself stated, most look forward to the friday feature for information. By posting advanced guides we supplied information that some players may not have known about. Just because it wasn't exactly what you were looking for doesn't mean it was bad for everyone.
not intended as a criticism, but rather a heads up: ithink you are missing the big picture here.
if you read the thread following the architect guide friday feature, you will see that the complaint is not with the guide itself, but rather with the fact that this was old info, and is the type of info that is easily accessible by visiting the profession board of your choice. it is not even dev-level info, but a player written guide.
we feel cheated when player written guides that are old and somewhat out of date are offered up as if they were some new and exciting insight into the game, especially in the friday feature, where we look forward to an insider's viewpoint. this player-written architect's guide was well over a year old, and some of the links in it no longer even work.
what the community would like is insight into what is going on, what is planned, etc. astomech stats. glimpses of new goodies headed our way. an insight into how decisions are made, the processes used, etc., in working on the game. we hope to get a better handle on what is going on, in part so that we can support the effort, even when the product is a bit shaky at the moment.
if you just post a link to a player written guide which is stickied on the appropriate forum, it just looks like a cop-out, or even worse, "oops! friday feature is due... hmmm... copy link, paste link, viola!" i doubt this is the sort of impression you want to project.
Lotussutol
Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:11 pm
#88
Tiggs wrote:
ImageAccess wrote:
And btw, stop using the funked up html styles...for gods sake it would be nice to quote you on occastion tiggs...
I am not sure why you are having trouble. I am hitting reply and quote post just like everyone else does.
yeah well when we reply to youwith a quote99% of the time we get an error...I would guess because you guys and gals have more rights on the forums...
Felisconcolori
Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:25 pm
#89
Tiggs wrote:
Ekymer wrote:
appently no one ever reads the bug threads, not on TC nor on Live. Fanfest has shown several times that no bugs get forwarded to the DEVs.
Every day the Live, TC and Correspondent bug threads are entered into a excel spreadsheet. They are then sent on to QA to be reproduced and assigned a bug number. From there they are then prioritized and filtered out to the Leads. Members of the Dev team will not know all bugs that are happening. They are assigned bugs from their Lead and those are what they work on. So your statement is semi true, Devs are not shown all the bugs that are entered however, they are told about bugs that impact them.
See? I don't know if anyone else caught this, but the true root of the problems can be summed up in just two words... Excel Spreadsheet.
Now, I don't want to say that this is an uncommon or even necessarily "wrong" practice, but MS Excel is not an efficient bug tracking system at all, and while individuals are efficient, staffs can have problems. IE, manager A says this is Manager B's bug, and Manager B says it's Dev A under Lead A who is assigned currently to Manager A's team... it goes around for a few days before hopefully GreenMarine steps in with his shiney stick of justice and whaps some sense into his upper management.
If I could assume to make a suggestion, how about using something like Perforce, Bugzilla, or whatever would nicely integrate with your source code control systems to initially enter a bug report, culled from the consensus of "Post threads with umpteen million responses saying '"ME TOO!'", and with those reported from the /bug tool. From there, it could be evaluated by an individual or small team to determine what effect it will have on gameplay... IE, it breaks the program or causes a lot of distress, is very noticeable...
Some things (like the ui_object_objectname showing up in radar or tooltips) are relatively minor annoyances... crafting not working well I would prioritize just under "causes the servers to spontaneously combust"
I don't think SOE does this intentionally, and Tiggs, I don't think it's you or even TH. I think that just a little more thought at the upper levels needs to be focused on your development process. Because, honestly, even a small 50-person software development house is far beyond the point where Excel spreadsheets work as an efficient bug control and reporting tool. And Sony is MUCH larger than that... somewhere, there's got to be some software tool with available licenses that you can use.
I'd even go so far as to say I'll throw an extra $20 of my own money into setting up bugzilla for you.
Thanks a lot, Tiggs, for sharing the process with us. It's a lot better than some companies saying "We listen. Really, we do."
Tiggs
Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:47 pm
#90
You missed my response to the original post:
Felisconcolori wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
Ekymer wrote:
appently no one ever reads the bug threads, not on TC nor on Live. Fanfest has shown several times that no bugs get forwarded to the DEVs.
Every day the Live, TC and Correspondent bug threads are entered into a excel spreadsheet. They are then sent on to QA to be reproduced and assigned a bug number. From there they are then prioritized and filtered out to the Leads. Members of the Dev team will not know all bugs that are happening. They are assigned bugs from their Lead and those are what they work on. So your statement is semi true, Devs are not shown all the bugs that are entered however, they are told about bugs that impact them.
See? I don't know if anyone else caught this, but the true root of the problems can be summed up in just two words... Excel Spreadsheet.
Now, I don't want to say that this is an uncommon or even necessarily "wrong" practice, but MS Excel is not an efficient bug tracking system at all, and while individuals are efficient, staffs can have problems. IE, manager A says this is Manager B's bug, and Manager B says it's Dev A under Lead A who is assigned currently to Manager A's team... it goes around for a few days before hopefully GreenMarine steps in with his shiney stick of justice and whaps some sense into his upper management.
If I could assume to make a suggestion, how about using something like Perforce, Bugzilla, or whatever would nicely integrate with your source code control systems to initially enter a bug report, culled from the consensus of "Post threads with umpteen million responses saying '"ME TOO!'", and with those reported from the /bug tool. From there, it could be evaluated by an individual or small team to determine what effect it will have on gameplay... IE, it breaks the program or causes a lot of distress, is very noticeable...
Some things (like the ui_object_objectname showing up in radar or tooltips) are relatively minor annoyances... crafting not working well I would prioritize just under "causes the servers to spontaneously combust"
I don't think SOE does this intentionally, and Tiggs, I don't think it's you or even TH. I think that just a little more thought at the upper levels needs to be focused on your development process. Because, honestly, even a small 50-person software development house is far beyond the point where Excel spreadsheets work as an efficient bug control and reporting tool. And Sony is MUCH larger than that... somewhere, there's got to be some software tool with available licenses that you can use.
I'd even go so far as to say I'll throw an extra $20 of my own money into setting up bugzilla for you.
Thanks a lot, Tiggs, for sharing the process with us. It's a lot better than some companies saying "We listen. Really, we do."
The excel spread sheet is used to get QA the bug information. They then enter the bugs into bug tracking software.
ArkonPhoenix
Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:21 am
#91
Tiggs, the reason you can post HTML and Pictures into the Forums is because you are allowed to. We are not allowed this privilageand makes it tough to quote the anyone on the DEV team. We also get errors such as Invalid format and you cannot post style html (very brief of what the actual error says). Just FYI.
Tiggs wrote:
ImageAccess wrote:
And btw, stop using the funked up html styles...for gods sake it would be nice to quote you on occastion tiggs...
I am not sure why you are having trouble. I am hitting reply and quote post just like everyone else does.