Community Relations Archive
Thread: Don't read this if you can't handle the truth
Page 1 of 2
Tarnor
Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:48 am
#1
There is a quote I recently heard that I think of when it comes to this travesty which has occurred to SWG and the majority of its veterans, including more recent players. "Once trust is broken, it's BROKEN". There are those who are indifferent to the waves of players permanently leaving the game, there are those who will be "sticking it out" to see firsthand what the completely new game will be like (a revamp is disingenuous at best). There are those that conveniently and superficially dismiss anyone who is appalled by the upcoming changes as "whiners", and even somehow insinuate that said individual who is highly upset for a myriad of legitimate reasons, somehow deserves to be punished for the profession(s) that they currently have mastered.
To those of you who wield such a desire to vilify others, consider that you yourself are a victim, that you yourself, have been wronged by Lucas Arts and SoE, and are being punished whether you realize or whether you feel you are or not. Lucas Arts/SoE characterized ALL of its customers within the category of MISTRUST. Mistrust knowing that if the plans to divulge their intentions before the release of ToOW that almost no one would have bought it, their little PR coup would have been a miserable failure. LA/SoE didn't trust you, the customer, enough to tell you about the NGE before the new expansion, so people are going to shrug it off and say to themselves "eh, oh well, I'll still trust LA/SoE to do the best they can, the game was buggy anyways, so I was lied to, people lie all the time, I'll get over it".
To quote Dy-Nod from my server Naritus: "It's like eating radioactive cereal, I know it's bad, but I'll go ahead and give it a try anyways". Where do you people draw the line and decide enough is enough? If you can't stand up for anything, you will fall for anything. And that, my reader, is a reprehensible shame. The true implications to the breach of trust that has been executed upon us will likely never leave much of an impression of significance upon the younger minds who care about little except the opportunity to soon be swinging a slick new lightsaber, funded by there fathers or mothers credit card, which will be the predominant, new population. Customers of SWG purchased ToOW based on their understanding of what that specific expansion offered. Just like when you buy any product, you purchase it because you know everything about it that you need to know, to convince yourself to open your wallet and pay for something. Instead everyone who bought ToOW unknowingly was pre-disposed to be defrauded by this abomination known as the "NGE". Kind of like Herpes, you don't want it, you didn't expect to get it, but now you've got the gift that keeps on giving.
In my years of playing MMORPG's; Everquest for over 5 years with a level 70 cleric with 796 AA points, to Shadowbane, a mostly PvP game far more unforgiving than SWG, I have never seen such blatant, shameless and egregious alienation and willful ex-communication of the very human beings who were literally the very reason the game had the funds to come to fruition and succeed for a time. Never have I felt so betrayed or been defrauded, and the same goes for my entire guild on Naritus, HALO [Hope Against Losing Odds] which is 99% disbanded and cancelled (over 50 accounts) as of today, including myself.
I gave SoE the benefit of the doubt far too long, it wasn't driven into me enough that all they want is money and absolutely nothing else matters to them. But SoE, being a very minor branch of Sony, is in effect part of the RIAA. Who has just been discovered worldwide for secretly deploying damaging malware (rootkits) on music CD's which installs (CD brings up an EULA--where have we seen those before?) without permission or knowledge which compromises a computer and will damage the operating system, all in stealth, just like the stealth nerf of Star Wars Galaxies.
There's plenty of class specific and economy related posts illustrating why the NGE is a monumentally ill-conceived piece of excrement, so I won't repeat those aspects of it. What I will say in closing however is this: BOYCOTT all Sony products for life, don't ever buy a Sony game, a Sony camera, Sony Mp3 player, Sony TV, CD by Sony music, ot any DVD or theatrical release of anything affiliated with them. Sony has proven themselves to be a wholly untrustworthy company who views all of its customers who do not bow down to its ABUSIVE EULA RIGHTS WAIVING CRAP and DRM [Digital RIghts Management] with contempt, and utter disrespect. Below is a link to the EFF who has investigated unconstitutional, unethical, and egregious use of EULA's. I don't do business with liars, while it is a small revenue lost for them, it is nonetheless, a lost revenue.
Strength in numbers -- the more that stand up for not tolerating being blindsighted and lied to by these unethical scumbags, and start to cancel/boycott, the more they will learn that their customers are their BOSS, not the other way around.
Permanent, Lifetime Cancelled accounts:
Ellisime Suldenesselar, Female Twi'lek, Officer of the guild HALO, Master Bounty Hunter/Master Pistoleer/4000 CM, Naritus Zenan, Male Wookie, Master Merchant, Master Artisan, Master Shipwright, Naritus
http://www.eff.org/wp/eula.php "Common EULA Terms That Harm Consumers There are countless terms written into EULAs that could potentially harm consumers, or that may be downright unlawful. Here we offer an overview of some of the most common of these terms, and include sample legal language to help consumers become more EULA-savvy."
http://www.grc.com/default.htm " Leo and I discuss details and consequences of Sony Corporation's alarming "Rootkit" DRM (digital rights management) copy protection scheme. This poorly written software unnecessarily employs rootkit technology (see episode #9) to hide itself from its users after installation. It can not be uninstalled easily, it can be easily misused for malicious purposes, and it has been implicated in many repeated BSOD "blue screen of death" PC crashes."
JimerLins
Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:49 am
#3
consider that you yourself are a victim, that you yourself, have been wronged by Lucas Arts and SoE, and are being punished whether you realize or whether you feel you are or not.
That statement is where I stopped reading.
Sorry, but you do NOT get to decide that sort of thing for anyone else. Who do you think you are? You're not entitled to determine *my* state of mind or my feelings about anything. I can't speak for anyone else, but the very idea that you insist you get to determine that I'm a victim of something is beyond the pale.
I haven't called anyone a whiner, but the very idea that even if I don't agree with you that I'm somehow a "victim" is asinine at best, and unmitigated arrogance at worst.
Sorry to see you go. But you probably would have done better to just leave quietly.
That statement is where I stopped reading.
Sorry, but you do NOT get to decide that sort of thing for anyone else. Who do you think you are? You're not entitled to determine *my* state of mind or my feelings about anything. I can't speak for anyone else, but the very idea that you insist you get to determine that I'm a victim of something is beyond the pale.
I haven't called anyone a whiner, but the very idea that even if I don't agree with you that I'm somehow a "victim" is asinine at best, and unmitigated arrogance at worst.
Sorry to see you go. But you probably would have done better to just leave quietly.
TK1210GT
Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:13 am
#4
I agree with you on all your points but one..you're pointing the finger at the wrong company.
LucasArts is the one pulling the strings. I hate to say it, but it's true. If anyone you should be boycotting it's them. Why? because SOE is just a contractor in this case...contracted to develop and run a game that LucasArts says how they want it done.
The manipulation is coming from LA and if you can't understand that then you really need to do some research. They say how high to jump and how far. SOE can't wipe their noses without asking LA for a Kleenex. Star Wars is one VERY CONTROLLED piece of property. SOE has to have everything okayed first.
Anyway,I never thought I'd be so pissed at LucasArts after all these years, but man they've got me reeling.
ComCypher
Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:14 am
#5
As disturbing as the changes in the NGE sound to me, that isn't even the main thing bothering me. It is, like you say, the blatant breach of trust with the consumer. Would it have been so difficult to have announced they were working on this from the start, and then asking the community for feedback on what they would and wouldn't like? I would like to give this NGE a chance despite the fact that I never wanted it, asked for it, or expected it, but it is made that much harder since SOE/Lucasarts has no respect for me as a customer.
How can we even know they won't do the same thing in the future, or after that, or after that...the whole thing is made even more ridiculous by the fact that people play games for entertainment; not to develop ulcers because they don't know if they are going to wake up the next morning and find outthat the thing that keeps thementertained has been changed by developers with A.D.D.
JustinKace
Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:38 am
#6
Tarnor, I could in no way, have said that any better myself. Thank you for your comments.
I too will be cancelling both my accounts before my next billing period. Wether I love the NGE or not. The blatant act of withholding the information regarding the NGE until after people bought ToOW is the only reason I need. I didn't even buy the expansion, but I refuse to give any more of my money and time to such a (to coin a popular current catch-phrase) morally bankrupt organisation.
To those who are continuing to play, and pay, it's your choice, but by making that choice you are choosing to support such unethical behaviour, wether you like to believe so or not.
I'll now go and play EVE Online. A game that treats it's players with respect.
AmarraL
Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:00 pm
#8
JustinKace wrote:Tarnor, I could in no way, have said that any better myself. Thank you for your comments.I too will be cancelling both my accounts before my next billing period. Wether I love the NGE or not. The blatant act of withholding the information regarding the NGE until after people bought ToOW is the only reason I need. I didn't even buy the expansion, but I refuse to give any more of my money and time to such a (to coin a popular current catch-phrase) morally bankrupt organisation.To those who are continuing to play, and pay, it's your choice, but by making that choice you are choosing to support such unethical behaviour, wether you like to believe so or not.I'll now go and play EVE Online. A game that treats it's players with respect.
Tarnor, excellent post. Though I can't say I agree with everything the mis-leading way they released the NGE and with the speed they obviously meticulously planned this, and that is where things have become disheartening for me.
/sign
RedlineJunkie
Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:08 pm
#9
I think LA is mostly to blame also. They probably don't want there to be two Star Wars MMORPGs due to "consumer confusion" or whatever the excuse is, so we will get to pay $15/month to beta test the PS3 version of the game. I bet Sony probably would have been willing to have PC SWG (as it exists today) and a separate PS3 SWG (call it SWG2, if you will). I think their hands were tied in this one...
TK1210GT wrote:
LucasArts is the one pulling the strings. I hate to say it, but it's true. If anyone you should be boycotting it's them. Why? because SOE is just a contractor in this case...contracted to develop and run a game that LucasArts says how they want it done.
The manipulation is coming from LA and if you can't understand that then you really need to do some research. They say how high to jump and how far. SOE can't wipe their noses without asking LA for a Kleenex. Star Wars is one VERY CONTROLLED piece of property. SOE has to have everything okayed first.
Lient
Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:50 am
#10
JimerLins wrote:
consider that you yourself are a victim, that you yourself, have been wronged by Lucas Arts and SoE, and are being punished whether you realize or whether you feel you are or not.
That statement is where I stopped reading.
Sorry, but you do NOT get to decide that sort of thing for anyone else. Who do you think you are? You're not entitled to determine *my* state of mind or my feelings about anything. I can't speak for anyone else, but the very idea that you insist you get to determine that I'm a victim of something is beyond the pale.
I haven't called anyone a whiner, but the very idea that even if I don't agree with you that I'm somehow a "victim" is asinine at best, and unmitigated arrogance at worst.
Sorry to see you go. But you probably would have done better to just leave quietly.
I think you misunderstand what Tarnor wrote! He wasn't trying to speak on your behalf, or tell you how you feel. He simply asks that you consider the possibility that you have been wronged.
Maybe you should go back and read the whole article.
Lient (sad and sigless)
Message Edited by Lient on 11-07-2005 05:51 PM
inlay
Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:21 am
#11
i couldent agree more with your post
infact ime glad i didnt purchus T.O.O.W
as i am being told my creature handeler job that ive come to love is going to be deleted with the change
i too will probly be leveing and would of had to demand a refund on T.O.O.W
WoenK
Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:11 pm
#12
hmmm...so this is the truth ?!
The truth is, you are quite lucky that you did not get ripped off elsewhere.
Only games I did not have this feeling were MUDs.
A Big "Hallo" btw to all others who also got kicked out E&B, felt ripped off in Neocron and had the feeling, that EVE was to expensive for what it offered...
The truth is, you are quite lucky that you did not get ripped off elsewhere.
Only games I did not have this feeling were MUDs.
A Big "Hallo" btw to all others who also got kicked out E&B, felt ripped off in Neocron and had the feeling, that EVE was to expensive for what it offered...
NarfBlinko
Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:53 pm
#13
JimerLins wrote:
consider that you yourself are a victim, that you yourself, have been wronged by Lucas Arts and SoE, and are being punished whether you realize or whether you feel you are or not.
That statement is where I stopped reading.
Sorry, but you do NOT get to decide that sort of thing for anyone else. Who do you think you are? You're not entitled to determine *my* state of mind or my feelings about anything. I can't speak for anyone else, but the very idea that you insist you get to determine that I'm a victim of something is beyond the pale.
I haven't called anyone a whiner, but the very idea that even if I don't agree with you that I'm somehow a "victim" is asinine at best, and unmitigated arrogance at worst.
Sorry to see you go. But you probably would have done better to just leave quietly.
Well, if you had read the very next sentence so that you had the whole thought in context, you wouldn't sound like such an idiot. The OP's point is that every single member of the pre-ToOW playerbase was a victim of LA/SOE's mistrust, because they delibrately held off telling everyone about the NGE until AFTER they had collected the money from all the preorders of ToOW.
Trying to make any sort of intelligent argument without reading the OP's full article just makes you another inept debater whose positions rest on nothing and therefore count for nothing.
Your post leads me to question your reading comprehension abilities.
Page 1 of 2