Commando Archive
Thread: The weaponsmith's dilemma (grenades)
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JohnAdams
Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:47 am
#1
I wanted to post this earlier in the week, but work kept getting in the way. I'm actually glad now, because I have a little more information to go by. I am cross posting this on the Commando forum to get their feedback. Any comments would be appreciated.
About a month ago, I bought a second game so I could have a combat character. I wanted to be a Commando because it sounded like fun and I wanted to try out some of those weapons. After reading through the Commando forum, I learned that using grenades on lairs gives you more combat xp (a lot more). So I picked up some grenades that had been collecting dust on a vendor and tried them out. It was slow, but it worked like a champ. I started working on as many different grenades as I could to try them out. Along the way, I begin to entertain the idea of turning a lightly used vendor into a "Commando Shop" where I would sell grenades and heavy weapons. It seemed like a good idea.
Then I started the factory runs. Not to put too fine a point on this, but making grenades is a pain in the butt. Trying to coordinate which components go where and how many crates can be made with them is a nightmare. I can't see a good way to use the separate components without having to trash a schematic because I ran out of one component. I suppose I could make a separate Light war head for each type of grenade and so on, but then I'd have to buy 3 droids just to store all the schematics. ANd the factory runs themselves are very long... 2 of them today were over 20 hours long. And after that I'll be able to make another long run for 30 crates.
The problem for me is not how much it costs. I mine my own materials and a lot of this is second and third choice stuff that I'll probably never use otherwise. Time is a factor, but a lot of times these factories are idle anyway, so if they are set up before work it's really a good use for them. My problem is how to market them without either disappointed customers because they are out of stock or becoming a slave to grenade making to keep up with demand. Since I know firsthand how quickly you can use these things (a crate a night would be easy for me to burn. I'd guess 3 or 4 crates wouldn't really be that hard to use up). Since very few people make these, I'd guess demand could be pretty high.
So without charging an arm and a leg, what's a reasonable price for grenades? Which ones are the best to produce? Any other weaponsmiths do this kind of thing? If so, what kind of approach do you take? If they don't sell, I can live with that. But since empty vendors irritate me like nothing else, I really make an effort to keep mine stocked. I just don't want to advertise that I have all grenades in stock and have 2 or 3 guys clean me out and it ticks off everyone after that. Any suggestions?
JohnAdams
Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:53 am
#2
I wanted to post this earlier in the week, but work kept getting in the way. I'm actually glad now, because I have a little more information to go by. I am cross posting this on the Commando forum to get their feedback. Any comments would be appreciated.
About a month ago, I bought a second game so I could have a combat character. I wanted to be a Commando because it sounded like fun and I wanted to try out some of those weapons. After reading through the Commando forum, I learned that using grenades on lairs gives you more combat xp (a lot more). So I picked up some grenades that had been collecting dust on a vendor and tried them out. It was slow, but it worked like a champ. I started working on as many different grenades as I could to try them out. Along the way, I begin to entertain the idea of turning a lightly used vendor into a "Commando Shop" where I would sell grenades and heavy weapons. It seemed like a good idea.
Then I started the factory runs. Not to put too fine a point on this, but making grenades is a pain in the butt. Trying to coordinate which components go where and how many crates can be made with them is a nightmare. I can't see a good way to use the separate components without having to trash a schematic because I ran out of one component. I suppose I could make a separate Light war head for each type of grenade and so on, but then I'd have to buy 3 droids just to store all the schematics. ANd the factory runs themselves are very long... 2 of them today were over 20 hours long. And after that I'll be able to make another long run for 30 crates.
The problem for me is not how much it costs. I mine my own materials and a lot of this is second and third choice stuff that I'll probably never use otherwise. Time is a factor, but a lot of times these factories are idle anyway, so if they are set up before work it's really a good use for them. My problem is how to market them without either disappointed customers because they are out of stock or becoming a slave to grenade making to keep up with demand. Since I know firsthand how quickly you can use these things (a crate a night would be easy for me to burn. I'd guess 3 or 4 crates wouldn't really be that hard to use up). Since very few people make these, I'd guess demand could be pretty high.
So without charging an arm and a leg, what's a reasonable price for grenades? Which ones are the best to produce?I can't limit how many people would buy, so how can I discourage someone from buying 50 crates at a time? Understand that my biggest problem is how long these take to run in the factory. If you bought 30 crates, that would represent over a days work. If more than one person did this, you begin to see where my problem is.If they don't sell, I can live with that. But since empty vendors irritate me like nothing else, I really make an effort to keep mine stocked. I just don't want to advertise that I have all grenades in stock and have 2 or 3 guys clean me out and it ticks off everyone after that. Any suggestions?
DasAdin
Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:38 am
#3
First off, Ive been running a grenade shop for a month now. Let me tell you it is not easy. Getting commandos to see your shop, much less buy your grenades is quite a chore. My second day I sold 9 crates of grenades. Since then I have sold a few singles every few days, with a crate sale about once a week. And rememberyou are making weapons for a small precent of the player base. So dont expect to sell muchunless a lot of people know who you are.
Second, I generally make warhead mechs and fusing devices in batches of 21 crates. And grenades in batches of 20 crates. I will eventualy sell all types of grenades, but I only expect protons to sell very well, with C12 coming in behind that. When you sell your grenades make sure that you always have crates and singles on your vendor. Many people will want to come in and buy singles instead of 25 at a time.
As for pricing, its up to you. You should start out at about 1500 a single for the low cost grenades, and 3000 for the higher cost grenades. Play around with the price untill you feel you have it right. And obviously you shouldnt sellat a price thatwill loose money.
Dodece
Sun Jun 06, 2004 8:47 am
#4
He is right you are attacking a very small niche market, and you will not make alot of money doing it. Most commandos fail to understand that what goes into makeing some of their weapons is insane. Even if you use the best possible ingredients and make suppurb limited use weapons. You still will not fetch a great price. My best advise is to just carry these for variety sake. The profit margine is increadibly low on them.
My system is simple make a crate of 25 then break off five. Sell a crate of twenty and five singles. To be honest though 1500 for any grenade is just a waste of time. I sell my cs for 2k and my protons from 3 to 5 k depending on the quality.
Hellshot
Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:13 am
#5
OK, short and sweet
1) For pricing talk to other weaponsmiths on your server or poll or your galaxy forum
2) C-12 grenades will be far and away the most popular becuase anyone can use them. If you plan to make commando grenades, you might as well make proton grenades since anyone with the field tactics tree is probably going to be a master commando.
Bermag
Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:50 am
#6
C12 is always useful for selling to people to grind combat XP (usable by all). I used to make a lot of grenades before I was MWS (only niche market for non-masters) but don't do that much anynore. Of the commando grenades I usually only stock C22s since they are IMO best bang for the buck. I sell those for 16k / crate, C12s for 12k. I have some good steel (bit not the best) which I have large quantities of but has been replaced with better resources for other stuff.
Might start making some other grenades when I get the time. Thermal detonators is pretty nice BTW, AP2 and decent damage. And only require 3 components.
I have seen very few requests of grenades lately.
Brilyn
Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:21 am
#7
Ouch..... I always tend to assume that if people are gonna buy the grenades, then they'll only buy them if they're cheap.
I sell my C12's at 300/stack, C22 and Cryoban at 500/stack and Glop at 750. I don't discount the crates, so times 25 the previous for crate prices.
And I don't make many sales at all. Like, *ever*.
Conversly, if I see Acklay Venom going cheap, I'll pick it up just to make an obscene C22. AT-STs are vulnerable to Blast.... 
If I sold grenades regularly, I'd be tempted to up the price by a couple hundred credits per stack, but.... it really doesn't take much effort to make these.....
ElanMak
Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:02 am
#8
For me, the most common grenades sold are Imperial Detonators and C22's, followed closely by Cyoban's. Generally people just buy 1 or 2 crates. I don't sell many singles.
I price my grenades at:
500 each for C12 and C22,
750 each for cryo and glop,
1000 each for thermals and imperials, and
1500 for protons.
Case prices are based on individual price times 20 (so get 5 for free when buying a case). Math works out easy that way, so for C12 and C22, that 10K per crate. Cryo and Glop is 15K per crate. Thermal and Imperial is 20K per crate. Proton is 30K per crate.
My damage ratings on the grenades are as follows:
C12 Fragmentation Grenade209-873 2.8sec radius:5 chgs:5 wnd:16% rng:-11/4/-32 ham:68-58-15
C22 Fragmentation Grenade331-1524 3.6sec radius:7 chgs:5 wnd:15.9% rng:-8/8/-26 ham:95-95-21
CryoBan Grenade302-765 3.5sec radius:5 chgs:5 wnd:15.7% rng:-6/7/-38 ham:49-118-21
Glop Grenade340-1425 4.4sec radius:2 chgs:5 wnd:13.6% rng:-10/5/-39 ham:124-52-22
Imperial Detonator985-2045 3.4sec radius:4 chgs:5 wnd:22.5% rng:-11/5/-40 ham:156-155-67
Thermal Detonator835-1765 3.6sec radius:7 chgs:5 wnd:21.5% rng:-15/0/-34 ham:99-99-50
Proton Grenade1531-3120 5.3sec radius:5 chgs:5 wnd:24.1% rng:-11/5/-40 ham:135-161-124
C22 Fragmentation Grenade331-1524 3.6sec radius:7 chgs:5 wnd:15.9% rng:-8/8/-26 ham:95-95-21
CryoBan Grenade302-765 3.5sec radius:5 chgs:5 wnd:15.7% rng:-6/7/-38 ham:49-118-21
Glop Grenade340-1425 4.4sec radius:2 chgs:5 wnd:13.6% rng:-10/5/-39 ham:124-52-22
Imperial Detonator985-2045 3.4sec radius:4 chgs:5 wnd:22.5% rng:-11/5/-40 ham:156-155-67
Thermal Detonator835-1765 3.6sec radius:7 chgs:5 wnd:21.5% rng:-15/0/-34 ham:99-99-50
Proton Grenade1531-3120 5.3sec radius:5 chgs:5 wnd:24.1% rng:-11/5/-40 ham:135-161-124
SolarusArc
Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:32 am
#9
Sort of off topic but I just made 10 Rocket Launchers (they of course required 50 proton grenades) and let me tell you, it was a complete pain the butt. I placed them on a special Heavy Weapon's Vendor and it's been 2 weeks now and no sales. Advertised them and everything. I remember a time when commandos seemed to want RL's. Has the GCW or lack of interest in it killed the Heavy Weapons market?
DasAdin
Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:59 am
#10
The day beforre I put up my vendor I talked witha commando about pricing. My initial prices are based on what he told me. He also told me he loves using rocket launchers. Every commando I have talked to likes rocket launchers. It might be the fact that because the require so much time and effort to build with all those subcomponets the end price is just too much to handle.
If some grenades didnt require subcomponents, and things like protons require 4 subcomponets and all that time, then the price could go down, we could make more, people would be willing to use more at the lower price. And finaly grenades would be a worth the time weapon.
TheIronYuppie
Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:01 pm
#11
Protons and THermals would be the only Commando grenade to focus on, as THermals are the next best thing to RL's.
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