Commando Archive
Thread: what exactly is the problem?
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Swyreal
Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:50 am
#1
Okay maybe I am missing something, there is great possibility in that.. but I am currently 3/4/40 commando (should be master today or tomorrow since i get to play ALL DAY).. however I don't exactly see where all this complaining is coming from... How exactly are we being nerfed to a point of not being usable?? Lets go over the points that your all making.. and then lets see..
a) Dots no longer stack: Umm K.. i never knew they did before so i never stacked em.. i'm still pretty dang deadly with my flame thrower.
b) Flameout will make it harder to hit: Umm K.. Pixie Dust gives more life points, Muon gold gives em more mind and faster regeneration.. making it harder for riflemen to melt away their minds.. whats the problem?
c) Fire Extinguishers: Okay this one is almost hilarious in my books.. just the thought of it.. I mean did they even have "Extinguishers" back then eh? okay this one ya'll got a point on.. but other then jumping in a pool of water.. how are YOU going to get the flame off when an opposing factions commando eats you with flame? 
d) Lastly AT-ST more damage: personally i think all imp pets suck. why you ask.. because they cost way to much for so little they do.. granted I'm only recent in the PvP .. but remember back in the day when you could use them on "missions" regular ones? yea.. nerfed.. I personally think this idea sucks for rebels to.. but if your going into PvP you should have your forces with you, cause you know the other side is going to.
Anyway, unless I am missing something i really don't think they are breaking commandos at all.. they are not gonna be power horses granted.. but broken? nahh.. I'm gonna master this profession and love it as much as I already do
DeusManus
Sun Jan 25, 2004 8:30 am
#2
if you have ever used 2 flame specials, youve stacked flame dots. wether you knew it or not, you did.
dont compare flameout to moun. ever. rilfemen do massive damage atleast 5 times faster than us. in one shot your moun is gone. where as it would take about 8 seconds for out dot to take effect (assuming either they counter or we dont hit the health bar....if we hit at all). see the problem? and pixie atleast has negative effects.a buffed tka would take us down before the dot did any damage anyway.
we still pretty much own pve, just not as much without stacking dots. but the flameout is a slap in the face. commando is next to useless in pvp. now, we are even less effective.
TranquilityTHX
Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:04 am
#3
I don't think they are 'ruining' us but they certainly aren't improving us. What gripes meis that there is so much broken about our profession, and other professions too, that get no attention. THESE ARE KEY ELEMENTS OF THE GAME!!! Yet they don't get fixed. That's why I'm mad.
Halmet
Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:22 pm
#4
TranquilityTHX wrote:
I don't think they are 'ruining' us but they certainly aren't improving us. What gripes meis that there is so much broken about our profession, and other professions too, that get no attention. THESE ARE KEY ELEMENTS OF THE GAME!!! Yet they don't get fixed. That's why I'm mad.
This is an interesting thought. With all the time they spend Nerfing the crap out of everything methinks that time could have been better spent acutally FIXING!!! yes, fixing...a novel concept and idea, all the broken professions. Maybe at least one of them would have been revamped by now. Course not, gotta spend that valuable time with "in house discussions" brainstorming retarted ideas like the fire extinguisher, and nerfing anything else that might be working in a broken professions.
Swyreal
Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:46 am
#5
Well you say if i've ever used two then i've stacked.. well again i will repeat myself "I have NEVER stacked" .. I flamesingle2 or flamecone2 (flamecone3 today once i get the app to get my master).. and then just regular shot them.. no specials.. so voila.. never doubled up on specials.. never stacked.. still kick the crap out of everything I do on missions on dantooine, dathomir and endor.
okay don't compare them you say? and why not? don't you think riflemen could say the same thing? I mean come on, its not all that bad.. and its definately NOT breaking us.
I am as of today going to finally be a master commando, I take it into PvP, I take her into missions, I take her into big group hunts, and personally with or without these changes I dont think the commando will be broken, their are MANY changes that could be made to "fix" them.. like give us a reason to use the other weapons we are certified for... ever since novice commando all i have ever used is my flame thrower... why use anything else? but we are far from broken, and these changes won't break us either..
If you worried about the delay in the special taking effect.. psst.. get a faster less power doing weapon.. problem solved
Anyway I don't intend to start a flame contest.. Fire! Fire! Burn! Burn! unless its like that (my war cry for my flame thrower lol)
Tal-N
Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:01 am
#6
Master rifleman causes around 3000 points of damage every 2 seconds from headshot2 ect.., a master commando causes around 9000 points every 4 seconds using their specials or a rocketlauncher. So don't start preaching about commando's being weak compared to riflemen.A decent suit of composite, some buffs and spice mean that neither a commando nor a rifleman is going to have one shot kills in PvP, the only reason a commando would lose in that situations is cause they need to be close to use the flamer or stationary to hit with the rocketlauncher. Plus we don't have nearly as much ranged defence as riflemen but that is countered by the fact we hit hard and most things don't tend to get back up after the first shot. In the end though for an extended one on one fight a rifleman is better suited because of long range DOTs, thats just the way their profession works. A commando isn't supposed to work well in that situation by design.
tacwraith
Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:42 am
#8
TALN, rifle=ap3&ap1, flamer=ap0.
the damage shown in your combat chat is not the damage applied on target.
a flame dot will tick for around 2k damage per tick. flamer initial damage will be almost always the 9k reported-50% (AR1) minus whatever heat resists on target. against composite players i usually torch them for 9k damage in chat bar, but see a 600 damage (pvp damage reduction)indicator floating over their heads (in pve creatures with AR1 float a 4500 damage indicator)
so no, its 4500 damage initial + 4000 (2 ticks that go off during the flamer cooldown timer)= 8500. per 10 seconds. Rifleman = 3k damage per 2 seconds. that 10/2 X3 =15k damage if we use the pve damage indicators.
rifleman or pistoleer or carbineer in pvp do outdamage over time the commando by a nice margin.
garvin
Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:15 am
#9
Thank you Tac...You stated it perfectly...maybe Tal-N will finally wake up to this fact...we've been trying to tell him that for awhile...He still clings to the idea that we outdamage other professions so massively...Maybe he'll start to understand...
Tal-N
Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:20 pm
#10
What does AP have to do with anything when it's possible to stick someone with a flame special and then run around a corner so you can't even be shot at. I'd call that a valuable trade off especially since all you need is one hit to send the enemy to the grave, not to mention they cannot heal the burn easily while everyone is capable of popping a stim which heals 400 points of damage when they take novice medic. What the flamethrower loses in armor pericing it makes up with for tactical usage. The fact is that the burns cause around the same amount of damage that a masterrifleman can cause without you even being in harms way.
Also take into consideration thatenergy protection on armor is just as common as heat protection, if a rifleman hitssomeone in afantastic composite suit with 75% to everythingfor 3000 points of damaging using a T21 then they actually cause 750 points of base damage in PvP, then the AP bonus brings that to 1125, then apply the energy resistance and it comes to around 281 points of damage. If you assume that the commando starts 64m away then it takes around 6 seconds to close to a decent range, the rifleman fires once every 1 second at the extreme most meaning they'll cause 1686 points of damage assuming they hit each and every time which they won't. Someone with buffs will be able to survive that easily and even have time to pop a decent stim to recover some of that.
The commando closes to range, pulls out a flamesingle2 for around 9000 points of damage. The rifleman has a suit like yours which soaks up 75% of that meaning the actual PvP damage is 562 damage. During the 6 second recovery the commando can be running away (burst running if you want) so that the rifleman has a harder target, the first burn hits and thats another 2000 points of damage done which bypasses the armor. That means the rifleman after just one hit has suffered 2562 points of damage, so they pop a stim, one tick later they're dead as the next 2000 points of burn hits. Assuming the commando manages to get out of the line of sight or maximum range within the space of 2 ticks the rifleman is dead, even if they do incap the commando they'll die from the next tick.
Now the fire extinguiser will probably be on the same timer as your typical stim so unless they take a delay to use a fire extinguisger rather than finishing off the commando as they run they're as good as dead. So what you'll find is that the second you put a burn on someone they really have no choice but to take time to put the fire out, during the delay the commando can quite easily get another shot off.
Thus the commando given the right situation still comes out on top even with the introduction of the fire extinguisher. Plus the commando has access to almost every gun in the game, i know for a fact the lazer carbine is very tasty in PvP so just use that to finish them off if you want. It's all about smart fighting remember, not raw power.
tacwraith
Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:51 pm
#11
using your same logic, a rifleman can put a mind bleed on you and run away and stay outside of your weapons range until you are near death, pop into 64m and knock you out. and only those with novice medic+first aid can do this, and it takes several first aid applications to make it go away (in which they stop and get hit by more damage per second than a commando can, from longer range, in a specific ham bar).
a carbineer can kd you and thats the end of the game. pistoleer can either kd you from melee range (if they jump you) or kite you beyond 16m.
now, look at my numbers again. I INCLUDED the dot damage in it. elite ranged class still outdamages it by twice. Remove the dot damage (flamespecial hit, target player uses fire ext.).
I DO agree with you that the problem IS the dot being a one-shot kill weapon. But unless SOE plans to practically triple the flamethrower initial damage, there is nothing that 'makes up' for the loss of the fire dot damage, and it does need to be tripled because of the timer and because of AP0.
Swyreal
Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:35 pm
#12
Okay I made a mistake lmao, its flame cone 1 that i was using, flame cone 2 that i got at master, darn my writing messages when i just crawl out of bed lmao.. it was a blunder on my part, but still.. its not all that bad
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