Commando Archive

Thread: My thoughts on what we commandos should truly be...

Ryubushi
Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:25 am
#1


Okay, everyone seems to have their own ideas on how to fix the commando profession to make it what it truly needs to be. I think it's time for me to add my thread, with my ideas on what the commando should be, in full. Be warned, this well be rather lengthy...


First off, we need to change the requirements to even be a commando.


Master Marksman, Unarmed 1- 4, and exploration 1- 4. It's only natural that commandos should be able to navigate tough terrain, so we include exploration in with our pre-requisites. The combat xp requirement goes up to 50k rather than 40k, just to make the road a little tougher. Being a commando is not for those who wish to dabble with all the pretty weapons, and hopefully this will discourage some of those dabblers. If further discouragement is needed, we can make hunting 1 - 4 a prerequisite as well, or engineering 1 - 4 as some others have suggested.


Next, we're changing the commando skill tree. And I mean big changes.


1. The group currently known as Field Tactics will retain that name, but will be stripped of what it currently means. No grenades in field tactics. Sorry. Field tactics now grants minor hunting bonuses, and wilderness survival mods to commandos, as well as a new skill, stealth. Stealth is for sentient animals what mask scent is against animals. Another new skill will be field modifications, which will be discussed later on.


Why wilderness survival? Well, it's really more like field survival, and this is the field tactics tree, after all. A commando needs to be able to survive in the field on his own for extended periods of time, much like a scout. Advancing through this section will be earned via field survival xp points.


2. The tree currently known as heavy support weapons will become Heavy Support/Anti-Vehicle Weapons. The weapons in the group will stay the same, as will the skill mods. The only real major change will be a new breed of rocket launcher that can be equipped with various types of ammo to fit the occasion. Blast, stun, acid, energy, heat, you name it. This ammo will come in packs of 30, and can be loaded into the launcher at will. This makes the rocket launcher a reusable weapon, and thusly makes it more viable in the field. Advancement in this tree comes from heavy weapons xp points.


3. The tree for the flame-throwing specialization is getting replaced with Anti-Personnel Weapons. This will include the flamethrower, the launcher pistol, the T-21 (yes, I say we need access to the T-21), and a new weapon, the heavy repeating blaster (a machine gun with AP3). Advancement through this tree is based off combat xp.


4. The tree known as Heavy Acid Rifle goes bye-bye. The acid rifle, if we even keep it, goes to the Anti-Personnel tree. So, what becomes of this final tree? Easy.


Explosives.


I’m talking grenades, mines, and bombs. This tree will teach commandos how to build bombs, disarm enemy bombs and mines, place his own bombs, and make his aim with a grenade deadly.


At novice through Explosives 4, materials needed to make small explosives are rather easily found in the wild and then assembled Mcgyver-style (bones, hide, meat, and crushed rocks mixed with water, for example, could be a small bomb due to a chemical reaction or whatnot). Master commandos will be able to make larger, more powerful bombs made from chemicals bought from smugglers, artisans, and chefs (though a weaponsmith-made bomb will be more powerful still). This tree will include a grenade launcher certification, because no self-respecting commando should be without a grenade launcher. Advancement through this tree is based off Explosives xp.



So, now that you have an idea what I think the skill tree should look like, now we can go into mods and certifications.


Novice Commando - Commando camp kit (schematic), Certification for launcher pistol with AP1, flame thrower, C22 grenades, rocket launcher, vibro-knuckler, combat knife, and T-21. Skill mods: +10 flamethrower, +10 thrown weapons, +20 rocket launcher, unarmed +5.


Field Tactics 1 - 4 - Stealth skill granted, mods for Stealth skill, minor hunting mods (creature knowledge), ability to build camps closer and closer to lairs, field modification skill and mods for it (+5 per advancement, no more).


Anti-Vehicle Weapons 1 - 4 - Certifications for heavy particle beam cannon, heavy acid stream launcher, heavy lightning cannon, and T-21AW (modification of T-21, to be discussed later). Skill mods for all heavy weapons.


Anti-Personnel Weapons 1 - 4 - Certification for heavy repeating blaster and beam rifle. Skill mods for launcher pistol, T-21, flamethrower, beam rifle, and HRB. Special attacks for launcher pistol, T-21, flamethrower, beam rifle, and HRB.


Explosives 1 - 4 - Certifications for glop grenades, cryoban grenades, Imperial detonators, thermal detonators, grenade launcher, and small mines/bombs. Grants bomb/mine disarming skill. Grants schematics to build small bombs and weak grenades. Grants skills for using all explosive weaponry.


Master Commando - Certifications for E-Web heavy repeater, proton grenades, large bombs, and AP3 launcher pistol. Final skill mods for all skills and weapons.






***Valcyn - Lt. Colonel Ryubushi [ONE] of the Empire (the Tank Maniac); Career Master Commando, Master Carbineer, and extremely Anti-NGE.
***Eclipse - Ryushidosha, freelancer; Scaley Master Carbineer, ranger, merc for hire, and general sociopath...that despises the NGE.
***StarSider - Ja'ahn Woo [PYRO] of the Alliance - The Galaxy's first Jawa commando/carbineer...who also hates the NGE.

People like me...because I force them to...with violence!

Ryubushi
Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:26 am
#2


Now, to talk about new weapons and skills...


Field Modification skill - This skill lets a commando take apart his weapon and work on it. He can choose to either give it a temporary power-up, or to permanently increase the weapon’s condition and lifespan. No other power-ups can be added to said weapon until the modification wears off. This skill requires use of a weapon modification kit, which a commando cannot make. These will need to be purchased from artisans, and each kit is good for 5 to 10 uses. A field modified weapon may not be sliced until after the modification wears off.


Stealth skill - Like I said earlier, it’s a version of mask scent that works against NPC characters.


Commando Camp Kit - Like a scouts camp kit, but with a military flare. Sandbags or piled rocks to give a minor wall around camp, with a razor wire encircling the encampment. Each camp kit is made to blend in with the current surroundings (Example: On Tatooine, the tent may loom like a giant rock, or a sand dune). Master commandos can plant up to four mines around their camp to protect them and their party as they heal. They may even set up the E-Web inside the camp perimeter. The Commando kit will also help keep aggressive NPC lesser thugs (meatlumps, Jawas, etc) away, though the more aggressive of thugs (Tusken Raider and Lord Nyax nutballs) will still attack. Commando camp kits can, as one moves up the field tactics tree, be set up closer and closer to lairs. At master commando, you may establish your camp right beside a lair, but don't be surprised if the rancor living in said lair eats you for dinner.


T-21AW - The T-21 is the only weapon that a commando may use his weapon modification kit on to turn it into a new animal altogether. The T-21AW (Anti-Walker) rifle is a Star Wars Commando version of an anti-tank rifle. It’s very, very powerful, but it has a very slow rate of fire. I’m thinking 525 - 1150 energy damage, AP3, with no less than 10 seconds between shots, preferably 12 seconds.


HRB - The heavy repeating blaster, my favorite of the new toys I’m suggesting. This baby is so powerful, it has to run off a backpack generator, with a power cable running to the blaster itself. The blaster is large, much like a mini-gun. It’s AP3, energy damage, with a damage range of 300 - 750 max. This weapon has a very high rate of fire, but it runs down on energy fast. When the energy is depleted, it will take the backpack generator no less than 10 seconds to power up for another burst. This weapon takes a small but steady drain on the user’s health bar, and can be fired in quick quarter-second bursts, or a large 3 second burst that will chew anything in it’s path to bits. After the 3 second burst, however, the weapon needs to recharge. Use that special at your own risk. If you miss, for 10 seconds, you are vulnerable. Because of it’s size, this weapon prohibits use of burst-run while equipped, and will even slow down your normal running speed. Again, use the special at your own risk.


Grenade Launcher - This has a minimum firing range of 32 meters, and a max of about 70. It can launch any grenade the user is certified for, and can launch them twice as fast as the user can throw them. If it takes 10 seconds to throw a cryoban grenade, it will take 5 seconds to shoot one.


E-Web - This is a large and very powerful blaster. It’s too large to carry by hand, so it has to be mounted on a tripod, giving you a 180 degree field of fire. If something gets behind you, you have to either abandon the E-Web controls to fight it, or pick the E-Web up, and turn it around. While using this weapon, you cannot run at all, or even walk. Dodging an attack on you is severely hampered. You are, essentially, a sitting duck, a wide open target...almost. The E-Web is a bigger, badder version of our friend, the HRB. AP3, 1000 - 3200 max energy damage. Like the HRB, it fires very fast. The E-Web can fire a full 15 second burst, and mow down anything in it’s field of fire. After 15 seconds, the generator it’s attached to (yes, you will be required to buy a generator from an artisan, and recharge it regularly) will have to power back up for another burst. This will take 15 seconds, just like the length of the burst. However, while it is recharging, you and the E-Web are both targets (the E-Web will have a number of hit points, and once depleted, the weapon is blown up, forcing you to buy a new one). It’s advised that you have someone with you to provide cover when you employ this weapon, both for this reason, and setting it up. As far as setting it up, you will determine, via overhead view, which way you want your weapon to face, showing you what will be within your field of fire from each possible position.


Now, I am prepared for us commandos to make a few concessions in order to get to this point...


Launcher pistols with AP2 will be available to master pistoleers, along with de-nerfed FWG5s with AP3.


Master riflemen can have access to the T-21AW, and novice riflemen can get access to the HAR (not that they'd really want it, I'm sure).


Bounty hunters will get access to the grenade launcher, and certifications for C22 grenades, cryoban grenades, glop grenades, and thermal detonators.






***Valcyn - Lt. Colonel Ryubushi [ONE] of the Empire (the Tank Maniac); Career Master Commando, Master Carbineer, and extremely Anti-NGE.
***Eclipse - Ryushidosha, freelancer; Scaley Master Carbineer, ranger, merc for hire, and general sociopath...that despises the NGE.
***StarSider - Ja'ahn Woo [PYRO] of the Alliance - The Galaxy's first Jawa commando/carbineer...who also hates the NGE.

People like me...because I force them to...with violence!

Ryubushi
Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:28 am
#3


Now, a few notes...


The commando camp kit will require units of metal, which means either the commando will have to pick up the novice artisan skill to find his own, or he will need to purchase metal from an artisan.


Artisans at Engineering 4 will be able to make power generators for E-Webs, although the best generators will be made by master weaponsmiths.


Artisans will be able to make the weapon modification kit.


The names for having level 4 in any skill needs to be changed...


Field Tactics 4 = Field commander


Anti-Vehicle Weapons 4 = Artilleryman


Anti-Personnel Weapons 4 = Soldier


Explosives 4 - Demolitionist



Well, there, I’m done...for now. Feel free to flame away if you wish, or add suggestions that I may have overlooked.


Devs, please at least consider what I’ve been saying, what we’ve all been saying; we have been nerfed entirely too much, and it’s time to fix that problem.


Ryubushi out.






***Valcyn - Lt. Colonel Ryubushi [ONE] of the Empire (the Tank Maniac); Career Master Commando, Master Carbineer, and extremely Anti-NGE.
***Eclipse - Ryushidosha, freelancer; Scaley Master Carbineer, ranger, merc for hire, and general sociopath...that despises the NGE.
***StarSider - Ja'ahn Woo [PYRO] of the Alliance - The Galaxy's first Jawa commando/carbineer...who also hates the NGE.

People like me...because I force them to...with violence!

TechnoHic
Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:45 am
#4

I would say that you are right to want more pre-reqs for commando to detur dablers and to make us on par with BHs then give both BHs and commando both mitigations and both would then be waht they are suposed to be but the problem is it is too far into the game to change pre-reqs. Picture you are master commando one day then the next you arent even qualified. Wouldnt that nerf you for a bit? At leasat untill you coud get the other skills. Then when you get back there would you stil have all the skills you earned befor losing it? That is way to much coding and way to many upset people to call it fair.


Dont get me wrong, I wish we were harder to get to so anyone ever complaining about us would be unjust without doubt. And I'd support this idea much more than just dropping unarmed or trading it for another pre-req since it would make us more super elite, but the reality check says it wont happen and Id hate now that I am just 50k combat XP away from master, losing it all to go for skills that you've mentioned that all of em I have had and dropped on my path to commando anyway. I've played with a little of everything except entertainer befor deciding I wanted to be commando.




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Elder Commando
Carnage' - Master Munitions Trader
Nobunoga Oda - Bounty Hunter >
Ryubushi
Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:50 am
#5

I'd say exisiting commandos would retain their skills and commando title, just not be able to use them until they have met the new pre-requisites. That should be easy enough to code into the game, as compared to other things. They will not have to start over at novice command, or anything of the sort; all they'll need to do is buy the new weapons.





***Valcyn - Lt. Colonel Ryubushi [ONE] of the Empire (the Tank Maniac); Career Master Commando, Master Carbineer, and extremely Anti-NGE.
***Eclipse - Ryushidosha, freelancer; Scaley Master Carbineer, ranger, merc for hire, and general sociopath...that despises the NGE.
***StarSider - Ja'ahn Woo [PYRO] of the Alliance - The Galaxy's first Jawa commando/carbineer...who also hates the NGE.

People like me...because I force them to...with violence!

TechnoHic
Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:59 am
#6

Ahh but you see, I am in school for CNS and with it I have taken a few programming and datbase classes. Even the smallest changes could be very, very long and tedious in coding. Not to mention them having to update all the characters in there database and even harder, have to take those particular ones and add a field just to mark the ones that already have commando, and where they are at in the profession.


Nothing is super easy when you are talking about programming and at least 250,000 diferent accounts in the database. I dont know how they are organized but with people changing professions around all the time it would be real hard to pinpoint. I'm assuming they cant pinpoint exactly where you are at in the profession since when they did that nice little feature that told what professions were most taken, they could only track by what novice skills were learned by paying an NPC and not if they are actualy being used.




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Elder Commando
Carnage' - Master Munitions Trader
Nobunoga Oda - Bounty Hunter >
TechnoHic
Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:33 am
#7

Almost forgot. I most definately agree with what you feel commando should be as far as skill trees with anti-artilery and anti-personel.



CARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGE
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Elder Commando
Carnage' - Master Munitions Trader
Nobunoga Oda - Bounty Hunter >
hairstyler
Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:49 am
#8

I like some of ur ideas especially the E-web, in my opinion i think the pre-quiste should be set at master brawler and master marksman so that they have less points to dabble around with since they are so **edit** powerful cause its annoying seeing master commado,tka,ch they should be like bh cause when u master bh u have almost no points left the same should be for commando



Cifo Dark-Light
Black KnIghts

doin something
kubelwagen
Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:35 am
#9

good idea ryubushi
garvin
Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:57 am
#10

You have some good ideas, but you also seem to be navigating the commando profession more towards what I see the Ranger Class as (terraign negotiation, camping, hunting, etc).


Think about it this way...We carry the biggest, heaviest weapons...we have the biggest boom sticks...therefore, we should have the worst Terraign Negotiation, carrying those big weapons up hill can be a serious back pain...lol...To combat this, we have mounts...and soon player vehicles...


I understand the idea of discouraging dabblers (not sure I agree since we are all technically dabblers some where) but adding more requirements means we as commando's have less pts to put elsewhere...Personally I have no scouting skills...gave it up when Mounts became available...And I haven't missed them one bit. This allowed me to Master TKA (ok...I'm almost there...)


I have also kicked around the idea of Anti-Vehicle capabilites in our tree's in past posts...It's a strong idea, but something I'd like to see added around the time that War Machines are added (if ever) like AT-AT's or Player Vehicles that have weapons attached...It's something I personally put on the back burner until we get the other fixes we desperately need first...I say we improve what we have before we look at creating anything new.


Again, thanks for a great post...




Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

Ryubushi
Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:36 pm
#11

Well, there seem to be more idea threads popping up on what we want for the profession, or what we want the profession to be. Rather than post my thoughts in each one of these new threads, I've dug up this old one, and I'm giving it a /bump.





***Valcyn - Lt. Colonel Ryubushi [ONE] of the Empire (the Tank Maniac); Career Master Commando, Master Carbineer, and extremely Anti-NGE.
***Eclipse - Ryushidosha, freelancer; Scaley Master Carbineer, ranger, merc for hire, and general sociopath...that despises the NGE.
***StarSider - Ja'ahn Woo [PYRO] of the Alliance - The Galaxy's first Jawa commando/carbineer...who also hates the NGE.

People like me...because I force them to...with violence!

Ster
Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:50 pm
#12

I would have to say that you are on track as to what we need to be for the most part. Nice job.



Ster Nemor... The last of the Mononokians
Master Commando
Master TKA
Pistoleer 0030
CyberFett
Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:05 pm
#13






Ryubushi wrote:

Okay, everyone seems to have their own ideas on how to fix the commando profession to make it what it truly needs to be. I think it's time for me to add my thread, with my ideas on what the commando should be, in full. Be warned, this well be rather lengthy...


First off, we need to change the requirements to even be a commando.


Master Marksman, Unarmed 1- 4, and exploration 1- 4. It's only natural that commandos should be able to navigate tough terrain, so we include exploration in with our pre-requisites. The combat xp requirement goes up to 50k rather than 40k, just to make the road a little tougher. Being a commando is not for those who wish to dabble with all the pretty weapons, and hopefully this will discourage some of those dabblers. If further discouragement is needed, we can make hunting 1 - 4 a prerequisite as well, or engineering 1 - 4 as some others have suggested.


Next, we're changing the commando skill tree. And I mean big changes.


1. The group currently known as Field Tactics will retain that name, but will be stripped of what it currently means. No grenades in field tactics. Sorry. Field tactics now grants minor hunting bonuses, and wilderness survival mods to commandos, as well as a new skill, stealth. Stealth is for sentient animals what mask scent is against animals. Another new skill will be field modifications, which will be discussed later on.


Why wilderness survival? Well, it's really more like field survival, and this is the field tactics tree, after all. A commando needs to be able to survive in the field on his own for extended periods of time, much like a scout. Advancing through this section will be earned via field survival xp points.


2. The tree currently known as heavy support weapons will become Heavy Support/Anti-Vehicle Weapons. The weapons in the group will stay the same, as will the skill mods. The only real major change will be a new breed of rocket launcher that can be equipped with various types of ammo to fit the occasion. Blast, stun, acid, energy, heat, you name it. This ammo will come in packs of 30, and can be loaded into the launcher at will. This makes the rocket launcher a reusable weapon, and thusly makes it more viable in the field. Advancement in this tree comes from heavy weapons xp points.


3. The tree for the flame-throwing specialization is getting replaced with Anti-Personnel Weapons. This will include the flamethrower, the launcher pistol, the T-21 (yes, I say we need access to the T-21), and a new weapon, the heavy repeating blaster (a machine gun with AP3). Advancement through this tree is based off combat xp.


4. The tree known as Heavy Acid Rifle goes bye-bye. The acid rifle, if we even keep it, goes to the Anti-Personnel tree. So, what becomes of this final tree? Easy.


Explosives.


I’m talking grenades, mines, and bombs. This tree will teach commandos how to build bombs, disarm enemy bombs and mines, place his own bombs, and make his aim with a grenade deadly.


At novice through Explosives 4, materials needed to make small explosives are rather easily found in the wild and then assembled Mcgyver-style (bones, hide, meat, and crushed rocks mixed with water, for example, could be a small bomb due to a chemical reaction or whatnot). Master commandos will be able to make larger, more powerful bombs made from chemicals bought from smugglers, artisans, and chefs (though a weaponsmith-made bomb will be more powerful still). This tree will include a grenade launcher certification, because no self-respecting commando should be without a grenade launcher. Advancement through this tree is based off Explosives xp.



So, now that you have an idea what I think the skill tree should look like, now we can go into mods and certifications.


Novice Commando - Commando camp kit (schematic), Certification for launcher pistol with AP1, flame thrower, C22 grenades, rocket launcher, vibro-knuckler, combat knife, and T-21. Skill mods: +10 flamethrower, +10 thrown weapons, +20 rocket launcher, unarmed +5.


Field Tactics 1 - 4 - Stealth skill granted, mods for Stealth skill, minor hunting mods (creature knowledge), ability to build camps closer and closer to lairs, field modification skill and mods for it (+5 per advancement, no more).


Anti-Vehicle Weapons 1 - 4 - Certifications for heavy particle beam cannon, heavy acid stream launcher, heavy lightning cannon, and T-21AW (modification of T-21, to be discussed later). Skill mods for all heavy weapons.


Anti-Personnel Weapons 1 - 4 - Certification for heavy repeating blaster and beam rifle. Skill mods for launcher pistol, T-21, flamethrower, beam rifle, and HRB. Special attacks for launcher pistol, T-21, flamethrower, beam rifle, and HRB.


Explosives 1 - 4 - Certifications for glop grenades, cryoban grenades, Imperial detonators, thermal detonators, grenade launcher, and small mines/bombs. Grants bomb/mine disarming skill. Grants schematics to build small bombs and weak grenades. Grants skills for using all explosive weaponry.


Master Commando - Certifications for E-Web heavy repeater, proton grenades, large bombs, and AP3 launcher pistol. Final skill mods for all skills and weapons.







I like all your ideas. I also feel the Commando should be pretty self suficent. I think of a Commando in SWG like the Army Special Forces or the Navy Seals in the real world.


The only thing I would add is some sort of medical skills in the Field Tactics tree.


Also agree with the other Post. Prequisites should be either Master Marksman and Master Brawler or Master Marksman Unarmed, 4/0/0/0 Scout 4/0/0/4, Artisan 4/0/0/0





General Vultan Blackstar

<DwV> Dark Warriors of Valor
Commanding Officer
Imperial Counter-Terrorist Unit
Imperial Headquarters (IHQ), Naboo
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