Commando Archive

Message Edited by Raptor2k1 on 09-18-2005 06:47 PM

"This plan should resolve the double-AE stacking issues (ie. flamethrower + AE attacks not working together)"

Second time I get reminded about this, keep forgetting to write it down somewhere!

Ok, I might as well post this here:

In regards to Issue #1 with our lack of damage output...between now and TOW, Blixtev is hoping to boost us up via our weapons.

AoE...is also tricky; an "intermitent problem" that stems from the coding side of dev-land.

And in regards to Issue #2 w/ the idea of implementing equal AoE to that of other AoE specials:

---

As for heavy weapons AoE, yes they are only meant to do a portion of their damage in the form of the AoE attack. Generally the tighter the range of the AoE the more we can pump up the % of AoE damage it does.

---

Now what does this mean? First...our PFT is intended to be really nasty in AoE, but our Acid Stream Launcher isn't because of the ranges. I might be reading too much into this, but Im thinking this is a hint of that some of our ideas for versitility that follows the original plan (tied into our weapons) is taking hold:

1) Short ranged weapons that have great AoE damage

2) Longer ranged weapons, that are single target - mainly because it would be bad form to have weak AoE on long ranged weapons, when we could have something better that is also more flexible

Now for this to fully work, I feel we need specials...or at least a way to somehow boost that of the single-target, longer ranged weapons as well as our shorter ranged AoE weapons. I have a good feeling, that since the devs are looking ways to boost us...this could be possibly be what they're referring to as we already have several longer ranged weapons that are single target. We just need:

Something to boost the damage (either built in armour breaks/exotic state effects or specials...Im praying for specials honestly, as that would be the best way for a simple and efficient damage dealing)

AoE fixed & weapons to be hashed out a bit better in regards to more advanced heavy weapons, as well as them sticting to the "short-range = Aoe", "long-range = single target"

Possibly some tweaking with damage values (shorter ranged/aoe might be a bit less in damage or the same now, while single target weapons get a damage boost)

Then that leaves grenades, and some of the minor problems that the profession is facing right now. I have high hopes for this...

Message Edited by StarNick on 09-18-2005 09:46 PM

Message Edited by StarNick on 09-18-2005 09:47 PM

I might add that with a skill setup like this (which is more or less self-sufficient), we'll be able to take up something like Ranger as a couonterpart (assuming the skill requirements get change from master scout, which they likely will) and become the ultimate in mixing it up on the battlefield.

As is, a commando + proposed revamp ranger would still suck simply because you'd have no specials, even with any ranger skill bonuses. This would rectify that without generating too much overlap with other professions. We would be the champions of AE states and would have respectable damage output for single-targets when we want to switch from putting down states to taking folks out. We'd lose the ability to lay on two states at once, but I think being able to make commando a viable stand-alone profession would more than validate this sacrifice.

Basically, our niche would be:

-Good at laying mass states (we can currently do)

-Hold our own in combat against anothercombat profession on an individual basis(as we should be able to). We wouldn't have any roots or snares, slows, etc of any sort and wouldn't have the best DPS 1-on-1 either, but it would be respectable. Ergo we don't overlap on other elite professions any more than most ofthe others do.

-High SAC to compensate for high potential to effect the battlefield

This would make us the battlfield shifter that we were always meant to be without gimping us in terms stand-alone skills. If any red-names happen to read this, I'd love to hear your feedback as to plausability of a mini-revamp along these lines.

Sorry, was editing and adding the above...read Its important!

Edit: And yes im tired...not thinking fully straight

Message Edited by StarNick on 09-18-2005 09:49 PM

Hmm, that could defaintely be interesting... though it still might mandate a bit of the ever-so-annoying swap you gun out every 5 seconds you want to apply a different special. That was honestly the biggest thing that drove me towards this sort of a revamp idea, as it's simply impratctical to have to swap guns every time you want to change from a blind state, to a fire DoT, to a KD, etc. It's simply tedious and over-complicated. It'd be a heck of a lot simpler for the user and the coder if they'd just change some of the innate states to specials IMO.

I agree, thats why I'm really hoping for damage specials so we can "make" our own combos - which will definately ease the weapon swapping.

It'd be a whole lot better than:

Swapping to a weapon that is AoE to tear up some enemies...then swapping to another to KD all those baddies but do pathetic damage, then switch to front-loaded long range to do heavier damage, and...and...

With weapon specials, we could preserve our damage and make tactical decisions on what type of heavy weapon could punch a hole through their armour and stick with it:

ie, You pick the PFT because you're cornered by 5 baddies and gotta take em out. Or, you whip out your long ranged single target rather than the PFT, because it has better elemental...and will nuke the tank/critter/n00b.

Thats honestly what I think the whole point of "weapon swapping" should be about. Certain weapons can punch a better hole through a tank while certain weapons can be better in suppressing enemy troops. It should be more of a decision on what can play which role, rather than what can KD or what can lay a DoT down. It'd be a shift from the itty bitty details to a much broader, and ultimately more manageable way to conduct destruction.

And thus...each weapon should be part of an AoE or front-loaded group, but each be unique as well rather than carbon copies. Ie the RL can KD, but does massive elemental damage...hence its more ideal against armoured targets plus its long-ranged single target. The PFT is more ideal for softer targets, and varied targets (lower elemental). The Acid weapons should be similar to the RL but in a spray form which does a bit less damage. Maybe break down our state effects into just three: DoT, KD, and an armourbreak (or blind) which would be inherently tied into AoE and/or front-loaded damage.

For us, a broader and more simplisitic way to dole out damage may actually prove more fruitful. We'd be able to assess what our target is, can do and then proceed from there by pulling out a weapon that can counter it (ie is it unarmoured? Is it slow? is it armoured? Is it a hostile that needs to be taken out instantly?)...*rather* than pull out a weapon to simply perform a state like an ordinary special. Im not at all sastified with this explanation, but I think you get the jist of it...

Heh, most likely elemental damage would need a revamp for that to even work, but one can dream can't they?

Edit:

I guess right now its a bit of "hot potatoe" in regards to our weapons...very erratic, and in the end you just get your hands burned. Instead of this we need it simple and streamlined...(im thinking of tacwraith's old thread of giving us more exotic state effects)

Message Edited by StarNick on 09-18-2005 10:05 PM

Something else we'll want to keep in mind that I've picked up in WoW... you want your profession to be highlyinteractive, and not having any specials is really counter-productive to that.

For example, Paladins in WoW are actually not all that bad, but all of their innate abilities are non-interactive or reactive skills, meaning half the time you just let auto-attack do it's thing. If commando doesn't get some greater form of innate interactive skills, I could see us easily going down that road... and I really don't want that to happen.

Message Edited by Raptor2k1 on 09-18-2005 07:13 PM

Very true, thats why I for one would want to see damage specials be the force that preserves our damage when firing off our weapons. With the problem of balance set aside, it would be fairly dull if *everything* was tied into our weapons. When you factor in balance, it has already been proven that giving us equal footing in damage via our weapons alone...proves to be overpowering or underpowering depending on if that damage is there in the first place.

I'd love to see our weapons have a personality of their own (the elemental damage and states), but its us who is producing the damage...

The devs are getting there, but unless if they kick it up a few more notches...we'll never get to that point where a massive Rocket launcher can bust a hole through a solid wall, or a flamethrower could torch an entire infantry squad at once.

Edit: And im just rambling...my point: There needs to be a balance, right now there ain't. Simple as that. Night raptor

Message Edited by StarNick on 09-18-2005 10:21 PM

Oh come on, I'm sure some of you other guys have some thoughts on this.

Hmm still looks like a focus around AOEs, which me hates. Good idea making them specials though. Also you forgot Grenades!

This is not easier for the Devs to do however. Your asking them to take the all the stuff out of weapons and then make them working specials? Sounds really tricky.

Not trying to bash you, I'm always happy to see bainstorms and such, I'm just a critic what can I say!

Anyways here is a Commando Revamp...



First let's Revamp Grenades.

As we know the C12 Grenade is the basic Grenade to which anyone can use. So here's how it will work. Anyone with Novice Marksman or Novice Brawler will be granted the ablity "Grenade Toss". Grenade Toss allows a person with a Grenade equipped to throw them at their enemies.
Grenades will no longer be consumables or come in stacks. They will be like any other weapon. So once you equip your type of Grenade you can then with "Grenade Toss" throw/fire at an enemy, so basically a lot like Ranged Shot or Melee Hit.

C12 Grenade [CL 1 Kinetic Damage AOE 5M]-This standard issue Grenade is common sight across the galaxy. It's simplistic and relative safe nature allows anyone to use such a Grenade. This Greande is useful for Damaging a small cluster of Enemies.



Novice Commando

The Commando begins their learning in the field of Heavy Weapons and Support Roles. A Commando at this level begins to learn the basics of explosives, and how to use any weapon for any given circumstance.

Launcher Pistol [CL 14 Kinetic Damage]-This small firearm is more deadly then it would seem. The Launcher Pistol rather then fire bolts, fires small explosive rounds at a target. Although not very lethal, the bombardment or explosives from this Pistol will eventually bring down anything.

C22 [CL 14 Energy Damage AOE 8M]-An improved version of the C12, this Grenade can only be used with some experience in explosives. Not only doing more Damage it has an expanded explosion radius making it more effective against multiple enemies.

"Focus Shot"-This attack allows a Commando to single out their target and unleash a considerable amount of Damage onto them.



Explosives I-IV (Grenadier)

Cyroban Grenade [CL 22 Cold Damage AOE 5M]-A unique weapon. When thrown this Grenade opens collecting all nearby moisture and freezing it, thus creating an extreme Cold Effect. Because of this the Grenade will more then likely snare all Enemies hit by the Grenade for 10 Seconds.

Glop Grenade [CL 30 Acid Damage AOE 8M]-This Grenade contains deadly Acid within and when it hits the target covers the area with Acid. This Weapon is considered hazzardous and rarely used, but by the most experienced Grenadiers.

Zick Bug Bomb [CL 30 Acid Damage AOE 10M]-A so called improved version of the Glop Grenade. This Grenade is even more deadly then the Glop has been sought after by both Imperial and Rebel forces for it's power.

"Improved Grenade Toss" [Explsoives III]-Allows a Commando to throw Grenades slightly faster with a more likely chance of doing Maximum Damage.

Imperial Detonator [CL 40 Kinetic Damage AOE 8M]-A standard issue grenade for Imperial Stormtroopers, it is quite useful in clearing out rooms full of potential enemies.

Thermal Detonator [CL 50 Energy Damage AOE 10M]-One of the most powerful weapons in the Galaxy the Thermal Detonator is feared by all. This Grenade is so powerful that it's blast will Knock Down even the most stout of Enemies.



Heavy Weapons I-IV [Heavy Infantry]

Rocket Launcher [CL 22 Kinetic Damage]-This is a powerful weapon capable of damaging armored targets quite well.

"Barrage" [Heavy Weapons I]-This ability allows a Commando to bring down such heavy firepower as to Knock any enemy down.

Heavy Partic Beam Cannon [CL 30 Energy Damage]-This Weapon fires and intense beam that will go through virtually anything.

"Improved Focus Shot" [Heavy Weapons III]-A Commando can even better bring about heavy Damage on to a target.

Lightning Beam Cannon [CL 40 Energy Damage]-This Cannon carries a large amount of energy which can be fired in Beam doing extensive electrical damage to anything.



Volatile Weapons I-IV [Shock Trooper]

Heavy Acid Rifle [CL 22 Acid Damage AOE 5M]-This is Rifle built to project large amounts of Acid onto Enemies. A feared weapon and deadly weapon it must be used with caution!

"Burn Shot" [Volatile Weapons II]-This ability allows a Commando to Blind and set Fire to a target using a Volatile Weapon.

Acid Streamer Launcher [CL 30 Acid Damage AOE 8M]-This weapon is an improved version of the Heavy Acid Rifle with a far greater range.

Flamethrower [CL 40 Heat Damage AOE 8M]-This is a long used weapon, specifically built for taking out infantry. The weapons holds special gases under high pressure, releasing them and igniting them, causing a cone of flame to jet out. The effect is a large area being sprayed with Fire, capable of Damaging a large number of enemies.



Equipment I-IV [Demolitionist]

"Bash"-This ability allows a Commando when in close enough range to bash their target with their weapon, more then likely Stunning them.

Underslug Carbine [CL 40 Energy Damage]-A powerful Carbine capable of un-leashing large amounts of blaster fire at Targets.

"Heavy Bash"-This ability allows a Commando when in close range to Bash their target with their weapon, more then likely Knocking them down.

E-Web Blaster [CL 50 Energy Damage]-This monted Blaster is extremely powerful, capable of doing Damage to that of any Weapon (Equal to CL 54 Weapons), however it takes a few seconds to deploy and un-deploy leaving the Commando vulnerable. Also when Deployed the Commando cannot move.

"Fury"-This ability allows a Commando greatly increased Accuracy (Melee and Ranged) and immunity to DoTs, for a short period of time.




Master Commando

Proton Grenade [CL 54 Heat Damage AOE 10M]-This experimetal weapon is of immense power. When it hits the Target it engulfs the enemy in a small fusion explosion. This Grenade is most deadly and can only be used by the best Grenadiers.

"Advance Grenade Toss"-This ability allows a Master Commando to throw grenades faster and with more Damage then anyone else.

Proton Rifle [CL 54 Energy Damage]-A Long Range Rifle with Heavy Firepower, it is considered one of the most powerful Weapons in the Galaxy.

Plasma Flamethrower [CL 54 Heat Damage AOE 10M]-An improved version of the Flamethrower capable of even more Damage over a greater area, the ultimate Weapon against mass numbers of enemies.

Advance Rocket Launcher [CL 54 Kinetic Damage]-An upgraded version of the Rocket Launcher, this Launcher can unleash devastating rockets on to a target.

"Advance Focus Shot"-This ability allows a Commando to bring a huge amount of Damage on to a target.

Mortar Cannon [Master Commando]-An Artillery piece used by the Empire and Rebellion these are weapons of great power. These Cannons can be built by getting the schematics from Imperial/ Rebel Officers. The Barrel and Shells are made by Master Weaponsmiths. The Armor and Stand are made by Master Armorsmiths. This completes the Cannon itself. However in order to fire it a Droid Engineer must build a Targeting Computer into the Cannon. Once complete an SF master Commando can fire the Cannon, it cannot be moved however. The Cannon can fire anywhere on the planet except within 120M radius of itself.

To fire the Cannon, the Commando simply types in the Coordinates desired and fires the Cannon. The Cannon will then launch a Shell that will explode at those Coordinates. The Shell has an AOE of 50M from the original landing coordinates and will Damage any Enemy SF Members or NPCs. Neutrals, On Leave, and Combatant Players cannot be harmed by the explsion (Just for Non-Grefing Measures). The Cannon can only be fired every 30 Seconds, and only 2 Artillery Cannons are allowed per a Faction to a Planet. Motar Cannons cannot be set up on Dangerous Planets like Dathomir, Endor, and Yavin 4. To Destroy a Cannon an SF Master Commando of the Opposite Faction must kill the Operator, and then Plant Explosives on the Cannon to destroy it.

Then I guess folks (Mostly Jedi) won't be sitting around Theed all the time...