Commando Archive
Thread: Commando bad in PvP?
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Tyrst
Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:13 pm
#1
I beat someone today in an all out duel. I only usedthe skills available as a Commando. My opponent was a M Rifleman/TKM/4440 Fencer. I had a full suit of stun armor on and my helm was only 66% base. If anyone is interested in my strategies let me know and I will post it. I just thought I would offer some hope to some of the commandos out there.
StarNick
Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:27 pm
#2
May I ask your defenses? Plus if your opponent was armoured?
If you're solely a Master Commando and thats it, then..thats quite a feet...if you used another profession's defense set..then its not entirely using only commando skills....
SioBabble
Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:37 pm
#3
If I'm buffed, and my opponent is not, and is unarmored, and I can get in a single flame2 hit, they're gone.
If not, well, it was nice knowing you.
Lots of ifs, and the ifs are stacked in the commando's favor.
StarNick
Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:20 pm
#5
Not to flame...but still wanting to know more Info:
Since you have fencer, you took that up (im presuming) mainly for defenses....you cant say that you used solely commando skills in this case
Also, by having Pistol Tech iv (which I use HEAVILY)...I also presume you use your LP....I can own people in PvP using my LP...but only cuz I use fanshot/Stopping shot
And I still ask if your opponent was armoured or not (big thing when using the Flamer usually)
Not to flame also..but if you really want to say we're good in PvP...try being solely a Master Commando...I was one for 8 months, and It alone can barely stand on its feet (suure ppl will say, just get TKA defenses...but again, if we are nearly double the SP of a TKM...and we have lousy AP/low DPS...why even go our route?...What if I wanted to be a Commando and a Crafter? Commando would be the single most horrible thing to pick up....meanwhile as a crafter I can pick up TKM and be pretty good in combat, AND have left over SP...)
Tyrst
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:05 pm
#6
I used only the flame thrower and heavy weapons. Both of us were fully buffed and armored. I guess technically you are correct I did use the defenses from pistoleer and fencer.
I am sorry if I gave the impression that I was good in PvP. My rank still hasn't been above 1200 since taking commando. I was just happy that I beat some of the most powerful classes in the game. CM is the only one I would run from. Commando is the most challenging professions I have played in PvP to date. Because of this I have to use my mind alot more than any other profession. Carbineer is an extremely difficult profession to PvP with because it has so many tools to use. Commando however has very few tools and requires alot of thought on how you PvP instead of what specials you use. As a commando I can not afford to be caught in the open since all but 1 of my "ranged" specials force me to stop moving for a brief second. It is, however, the most fun profession I have played in both PvP and PvE. I get the best of both worlds and I love it.
SkinRudenko
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:07 pm
#7
Well, someone that is solely a Fencer would have a hard time in PvP also.
The main problems I have while holding a flamethrower in PvP are a CM's poison and kiting. I have a template similar to Teer's, and Mriflemen or Mfencers aren't able to take me down solo unless they carry some ub3r weapons.
Iposted a guide of what I do in PvP. I tried to keep it condensed... hope it helps:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=commando&message.id=64885
SkinRudenko
Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:04 am
#8
Very good info. It's hard and expensive, but Commando can be PvPed with.
4. If you have any dizzy/kd or dizzy/lunge attacks, Intimidate makes it much much easier to apply a dizzy state and force the enemy onhis back.
6. If you're working alone, buildings are very useful. Even trees and rocks in the middle of no where can protect you from enemy fire. A trick I like to use when I'm on the run is using the Medicenter elevators in your big NPC cities. Once your enemy follows you to the third floor, hurry down to the first floor and burst run away.
However, if you're working with a squad vs. squad, open spaces can be more favorable. The way CM's area poisons work, even if you can't see them you'll still get poisoned if you're within the area. Then, too many obsticals can make it difficult for your doctor to find/heal you. When being kited, pillars and buildings can often get in the way of your flame specials, which will delay you even though you don't even fire them (is this a bug?). And if you struggle with lag (I'm running on an old system)open areas are easier to render and tend to lag less for me.
8. Yes, all 4 will stack on your target, but I'm not sure if the devs want it that way so shhhh. 
I'm impressed with your tactics after only a week. What is the speed on your flamethrower and on average, how many flamesingle2's will you miss out of five if your target is kiting you? I've never had much knowledge in the crafting of a flamethrower, just what loot can go in them.
Colonel Skin Rudenko of Naritus
Imperial Military Police
White Cell Squadron
Nuke67
Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:11 am
#10
There was a really good posting on the GCW forum about the SWG combat system and how it's basically like a Fantasy RPG type combat system, in Fantasy RPG's Melee professions rule, ranged professions are the archers and crossbow type, they are good for support but stink in close combat, archers would fire at charging enemy from behind melee classes because they were not equipped for close combat,swordsmen,pikemen etc were the close combat professions.
SOE bascially copied this combat system to SWG becaues I think it's what they knew, even though in Star Wars it makes little sense, guys with swords and war hammers arent going to defeat soldiers with blasters and flamethrowers if you look at it logically, but since SOE basically had a RPG knowledge from Everquest they copied the combat system from that, why melee professions can dominate pretty much ranged professions once they get close, also the fact that guys carrying around war hammers, battle axes and swords makes little or no sense ina Star Wars game, least to me, I have played many Star Wars games and I don't remember guys with swords cutting swath's through stormtroopers, Light Sabers yes, war hammers and battle axes no.
Star Wars: Battlefront from the videos is more Star Wars type warfare, not a guy toting a sword, war hammer or battle axein sight, it was all blasters as Star Wars should be, I had the figures when I was a kid, 99% came with blasters, and when we played Star Wars we used guns pretending them to be blasters, not plastic axes, that might fit more Conan than Star Wars.
I play this game as a fantasy RPG with guns, basically think EverQuest the future, because apart from Star Wars type stuff the game has little Star Wars feel, I had more feeling of Star Wars when me and friends played with our figures as kids than I get from the the game itself, Commando's and other gun professions would logically dominate any metal blade profession, so it does seem weird Commando's themselves do so bad at PVP in this game, but seeing how basically they are more compared to a HeavyArcher in this fantasy type combat system, it is understandable.
Tyrst
Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:21 pm
#11
Excellent post btw. My tactics are simple and they start with the basics.
1. The most important aspect of PvP is not the damage of your weapon or the speed of your weapon it is your accuracy with your weapon. DPS doesn't mean a thing if you can't hit what you are aiming at. Bearing this in mind I have all my PvP flame throwers experimented on for accuracy first. Once the IR range reaches 0 I have the rest of the points put into Damage. I then get them sliced until I get a nice speed slice. With this kind of flamethower even when someone is kiting me my accuracy is still bearable. No I know most of the commandos out there are saying "We fight at point blank, ideal range doesn't do us much good". All I have to say is the only person that you will fight at point blank that will stay at point blank is an idiot. These are great for sticking a nice flame dot. The template of the guy I fought was Rifleman/TKM/4440 Fencer. The ranged and melee defenses are maxed on that template and I was still able to reliably hit him when he was kiting me.
2. If someone is wearing a PSG I will switch over to my HAR. I destroy PSGs with this weapon. People get tired of paying 50k for a PSG after every couple of shots and stop equipping them. I follow the same rules with the HARs that I do with FTs. Thebiggest difference is the killer ideal range which translates into more hits in PvP without having to worry about PSGs.
3. The next item on my list is Citrus Snow Cake. I don't know if I am using the best but mine adds +40 to my accuracy for about 20 minutes. I have a looping macro that ensures I am always on it in PvP. See the above reasons on why this is so important.
4. Intimidate every opponent and keep them intimidated. This should be everyones opening move when they are in range, however, I have yet to meet a commando on my server that uses it. I like to think of us as melee fighters with less range, which of funny when you really think about it because every brawler profession can lunge you from 21m away and we can't flame someone from further than 15m.
5. Synthsteak is my next food of choice in PvP. Against a fencer or rifleman with intimidate on them I do more DPS than they do. They can not outdamage me unless they also intimidate and use synthsteak. 43% is what I am using for 30 attacks. Thats 30 seconds of survival time if I am being hit every second. I take this as soon as I start getting buffed up. My stomach will be partially empty by the time I am ready to find trouble.
6. I use buildings to my advantage. I hide behind them until the range professions get close enough for me to charge. We all know pistoleer pretty much sucks for damage. Carbineer doesn't mean much to me with my template.Rifleman can hardly hit me when I am 15m or less away from them. If they don't want to come to me I either leave or pop out long enough to use a RL or HPBC, depending on the distance. I will run into buildings when the going gets tough, go ahead and follow me flame cone is my friend.
7. I am always buffed, including mind. I am always triple stacked on brandy. I have a brandy macro that times it all for me, so I regen pretty quickly. My mind is always 3k+ in PvP. How many riflemen can take you down when they are doing 100 or so damage per second to your mind? With intimidate, synthsteak, mindbuffs and brandy it will take them forever.
8. Always stack burns. I am not sure if this still works but I do it anyway. I slap a flamesingle2 and a flamecone2 on everyone I meet. It seems to help, but if it doesn't please let me know. I would rather not waste a special on something that doesn't help me.
9. Make them play your game. I make my opponents come to me. I know if I play thier game I will die. If a rifleman gets me in the open I am as good as dead. I use my heavy weapons to draw them in. Nobody likes takinga hit from a RL or HPBC in the face. The disciplined ones will stay away, the young ones charge in and meet a wall of flame as they do. I go into buildings, hide behind walls and use every bit of cover I can to make them close the gap. Once they do I set them on fire and they either run away burning or they stay to fight.
Take all of my steps with a grain of salt. I have only been playing a commando for about 1 week but I developed all of these strategies from months of PvPing. I have used almost every profession in the game in PvP and this is what I have found to be the common deniminator between all of them. I hope somebody reads this and finds something useful.
StarNick
Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:40 pm
#12
Excellent above posts, and yes you guys are right that it is possible..but its more expensive/thought inducing than other professions...if I may however just wanna comment once more 
"Well, someone that is solely a Fencer would have a hard time in PvP also."
Granted, but Fencer doesnt take 169 SP =P, a Master Commando alone should -at least- be enough fora Fencer....and more...
CE_SoLiD
Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:48 pm
#13
Back when BH was the flavor of the month and we had very few TKA (Yes.. before the swoops, etc) I could easily beat a composite armored BH as a Shock Trooper. Though they didn't use buffs back then, just composite and it wasn't as good (but there was 80% stuff.. just rare).
A fully buffed guy with composite asks me to kill him. He wants to clone, come covert. So I do--or try to. He wouldn't take off the armor because he couldn't get it back on after. So I had to sit there for 5 mins shooting him with my flamethrower, doing almost nothing. I even tried the LP. Commando's these days suck in PVP because we can't deal the damage if they have buffs and armor. If I fight a TKA and he knocks me down, it's over.
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