Commando Archive

After playing Commando for awhile, I decided to become a Master rather than dabble with the Flame 4 tree, I dropped Pistoleer, Smuggler and some CH to facilitate this move. Now I have a good grasp of the Commando profession and would recommend the following changes:

1. Merge the Heavy Acid Rifle and Flame Thrower Tree's. Both tree's perform the exact same function for two different weapons and the HAR tree is currently broken.

2. Add a new forth tree 'Heavy Weapon Special Abilities'

Intermediate -Accuracy while Prone +10, Defense vs Stun +10, Special Move - Heavy Weapon Melee Defense 1. This special is essentially a 'Butt Stroke' with the Stock of either the HAR or FT, where the weapon is raised over your shoulder and the stock is then smashed into the nose/face of the target.

Time 2, Damage 2, Cost .5/.75/.5 Has a chance to Blind, Stun and/or Dizzy the target.

Advanced - Accuracy while Kneeling +10, Defense vs Blind +10

Expert - Accuracy while Standing +10, Defense vs Dizzy +10, Special Move -Heavy Weapon Melee Defense 2. This special is essentially a 'Butt Stroke' with the Stock of either the HAR or FT, where the weapons stock is swung up under the jaw of the target.

Time 2, Damage 4, Cost .75/1.25/.75 Has a chance to Knockdown and Stun/Dizzy the target.

Master - Accuracy while moving +10, Defense vs Posture Change +10, Defense vs Knockdown +10.

3. Add the Launcher Pistol to the Heavy Weapon Support tree giving the same bonuses as the Pistol markmanship tree at each level. These bonuses would only apply to the launcher pistol and no other Pistol type weapons. Add Body Shot 3 to Heavy Weapon Support IV for the Launcher Pistol or at Master Commando.

4. Weapon Changes - Add DoT to the Acid Rifle. Have water remove it just like FT DoT. Change the graphics for the Launcher pistol or 'Lag' pistol as most call it, to something less FPS intesive.

Change the DoT for HAR and FT to adjust for Armor and Resistances. Leave the damage at its current level. Have it scale from 10% to 100%. If a MoB has 100% resist to Acid and/or Heat it will still take 10% of the damage as a minimum.

If the Mob or player has armor that is 60% Heat/Acid resistant as an example, 60% of the damage is absorbed by the armor and 40% by the player/Mob HAM. The 60% is actually deducted from the Armor's Durabilty, the armor is destroyed once it hit's 0.

If they have no Armor or a vulnerability to Acid/heat they take 100% of the damage.

Allow the DoT to continue to 'DB'

These are my thoughts, this is not a package so all or part of an idea could be used.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Flames?

Good ideas. I had the same idea to merge the Flamethrower and HAR trees, for the same reasons.

The main point of an acid rifle should be to eat through critical armor points, just like it says in the Heavy Acid Rifle IV box. So either durability damage or temporary lowering of AP/resistances, along with a special kind of Chemical Burn,would make the Acid Rifle a viable - if not necessary - part of a commando's arsenal. Finally.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on merging the Acid Rifle and Flame trees. I believe that when Acid Rifle is fixed, it will be another uber weapon and skill-set just like the Flamethrower. Heat and Acid are two of the most popular types of vunerability with things in this game.

I do agree that it would be cool to see some special moves added to the Lag Pistol.

Other than that, I think getting rid of the 2.5x Melee damage modifier and adding the Ranged Midigation will make the Commando profression one helluva profession.

I would be inclined to agree with you if the HAR tree wasn't a carbon copy of the Flame Tree. Albeit a broken one. If you think about it, the Commando does'nt have very much content. Hardly any at all.

We have four tree's specializing in four weapon types. Two trees have no specials and very few modifiers and two trees are carbon copys with the same specials.

The damage output is great, but playing a Commando is probably the least challenging of all the combat professions.

The biggest choice is 'Do I use Flame Single 2 or Flame Cone 2?'

If they fix the HAR, it will be 'What resist islower on the target heat or acid?' Then Goto the original question.

Also, by using only one weapon type you can get xp for all tree's. How are you supposed to get any good with a rocket launcher or a HAR if all you ever used was a FT?

Then you get into the 'Why do we need unarmed 4? Debate'

And what about the launcher pistol and grenades? The only time I see people using grenades is to get combat xp and the LP just to be a nuisance and bring people's FPS to 0.

I agree losing the 2.5 multiplier and getting ranged mitigation will be a step in the right direction but we need content and diversity with specials and modifiers,otherwise people will get bored and go back to dabbling with the Flame tree when they realize having the rest is a waste of points.

Thoughts?

If you read TH's recent post concerning combat in SWG:http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=14605

It shouldbe rather apparent by nowthat any discussion concerning the Commando class and the possible redistribution, migration, or merging of weapon branches is premature. The fact of the matter is we are going to see significant changes to combat in general. Since we do not know for certain what changes are coming for us as commandos specifically we should be prepared for a new "focusing" of our career path.

There will be new weapons, new skills, new certificates. This seems to be the implication of TH's post. This being the case we can expect to see the HAR either fixed or replaced. We can expect to see the FT dot modified. We can expect to see the Commando role more narrowly defined and the LP and Hvy weapons possibly redesigned as well.

Who knows?

Last I heard even the battlegrounds are being taken offline with the Vehicle publish until combat and classes are redefined.

The one thing that has been stated repeatedly by the devsis that the branches will NOT be merged. There is no point to merging weapons that will be either fixed or replaced.

Don't forget about fixing the discipline titles!!

I don't know how a flame thrower user gets the name Grenadeer... that would indicate use of grenades... or how an acid rifle user gets the title Ordinance Manufacturer... that's just wierd. Yeh i know, it's left over from when commandos manufactured munitions... but still... but then... Carbineer is still spelt wrong... so I guess this wont get fixed any time soon either...

/sigh

A bit off topic, but carabineer is a correct spelling for that word.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Its not the common one, but it is valid.

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Belce2 wrote:

A bit off topic, but carabineer is a correct spelling for that word.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Its not the common one, but it is valid.

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Carbineer is the most commonly (correctly spelt) usage. Carabineer is the correct spelling, less used. I prefer Carabineer, but everyone wonders what I'm talking about when I spell it that way.

The issue however, is that at master, it is spelt Carbinier. Now that is incorrect no matter where you look. Carabinier is another correct spelling, but even less used. The main issue is consistency. At apprentice and novice it's Carbineer (was Carabineer, but they changed it). Don't know why they couldn't fix the master title at the same time.

first:

it is intensely hard to fire a large heavy weapon while prone.... newer versions of smaller weaponry liek the LAW and whatnot are easier.....but the size and composition of rocket launchers in SWG ar elarger....i would have to say this would be hard to do and shouldnt provide any type of a bonus.

secondly:

armor is bad enough with the double decay it has now. WHat you suggest with the "armor absoption" etc would GREATLY increase armro falling apart and totally demolish what little is left of PvP. No one would EVER PvP if commando DoT's destroyed armor that fast.

Commandos arent supposed to be armor-destroying, economy ruining troops.

I read TH's post. Atleast we know they believe the system is not working as intended or invisioned.

It's never premature to discuss the shortcomings or future of a profession. In fact,now is the best time to provide ideas and feedback about any changes, proposed or otherwise.

The scope of TH's post istremendous, as is the time frame to implement it. I like the way he invisions the system to work, but let's face it, most complex game systems don't work as intended.

Also,his post did not address any profession in particular meaning their modifying the entire subsystem and not any specific professions at this point. Although, some of the items he mentioned will impact some professions more than others.

Which brings me back to my initial post. These are the changes I would like to see specifically with the Commando profession to coincide with the changes to the combat system.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't think anyone would try to fire a heavy weapons such asRocket Launchers or Canonswhile prone, although prone is the most stable of all shooting positions followed by kneeling, standing being the most unstable.

The problem is the back blast area. If you fire a RL LAW, AT4 or RPG while prone, your most likely going to set your utilities on fire or at the least shrink wrap (melt) them to your skin.

But do the Particle, Acid, Lightning Cannons, LP, FT, HAR or Grenades have this limitation? I know the latter four do not and SWG really didnt give enough information about the first three. Although I agree, you should not fire the Rocket Launcher while prone, but you could for atleast four (LP, FT, HAR, Grenades) of the weapon types and maybe up to seven (+ Particle, Acid, Lightning Cannons).

'Practice makes perfect', The more you do anything the better your going to become at it. It doesnt make sense for a 'Master' to be just as bad as a 'Novice' because the idea of execution is perceived as difficult.

In our case firing Heavy weapons. So I think the bonuses are well deserved for the amount of skill points expended.

Secondly, It makes sense for armor to absorb damage and decay in the process. Then it needs repaired or replaced. Thats what its there for. Thats why Armor was invented. Some things damage Armor more readily than others. Heavy weapons were specifically designed to destroy armor. Your not going to take on a tank with a M-16, your going to use a AT4 or something heavier. InSWG terms, your not going to take on an AT-ST with a scout blaster?

On a different note:

Decay is an Intended Game Mechanic that is not working as invisioned. More drastic measures of Decay were implemented because items were not designed to last forever and some items weren't decaying at all.

The problems with PvP and the economy go beyond Item Decay and SWG is working to correct it. Thats why they are redesigning many systems.

Commando's are supposed to be armor destroying troops, thats why we have the Big Guns

Message Edited by Mister_Heavy on 12-15-2003 05:09 PM

I agree with you.

I'dlove for the HAR to become a unique weapon with its own specials rather than a carbon copy of the FT. I think it should also be capable of usingrifle specials since it is a 'rifle' just as the LP uses pistol specials.

I would envision it as 'Acid tipped ordinance' designed for Armor Piercing.

I would make it a ranged weapon.

I would give it AP2, no DoT.

I would give it different specials other than AS1, AS2, AC1, AC2.

Something similar to 'Fireknockdown or Chargeshot2' from Carbineer, Stopping shot from pistoleer and headshot3 from rifleman.

thoughts?