Commando Archive
Thread: My vision for the commando profession
Page 1 of 1
Stuktongue
Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:38 pm
#1
Hello, everyone. Okay, this is a really long post so if you're not into that, please skip. If you're still with me, then let me say this is also my first post EVER on a board EVER, so please be gentle.
That said, I've been playing SWG for about 3 1/2 weeks now trying different characters to figure out how I wanted to play the game. I've finally decided I want to be a commando. I'm pretty sure if I can't go commando, I will cancel my subscription.
I've read through this thread, plus others, to get the gist of the problems with the commando profession. I've formed an opinion of what the commando profession could/should be, in my humble opinion at least. I offer it here for what it's worth. This thread may be ignored, so a developer/CSR may never see it, but if you want to repost any portion somewhere more useful, please do.
I believe the commando can play two roles in SWG: an overt role and a covert role. Note that I don't mean how the commando is declared so much as I mean the nature of the activities performed in each role.
The "Overt" Role
================
Not counting PvE, I believe bounty hunters are tuned for one-on-one PvP combat. In contrast, I believe commandos should be tuned for (a) one-on-many, and (b) anti-vehicle/structure PvP combat. I have developed a lot of frustration reading the various boards re: PvP and seeing people's focus on one-on-one combat, like that's what it's all about. I think a much richer, cooler vision of SWG combat involves a densely populated battlefield with hundreds (yes, hundreds) of riflemen, carbineers, pistoleers, melee fighters, and commandos duking it out, for the most part led by squad leaders in tight units. The riflemen would provide long-range sniping/suppression fire; the carbineers would be the first-wave assault folks; the melee fighters and pistoleers would go in and finish off stragglers in close-in combat, etc.
In this vision, the commandos would be the firepower experts. As any student of modern warfare knows, firepower was the key development in the 20th century that totally changed the rules of warfare (before that, marksmanship was prioritized). The ability to project high-volume, high-destruction fire down field to the enemy is key. The commando would be responsible for the most brilliant displays of this (not just graphically, btw). To do this, they would play three parts.
First, some would provide fire support from the rear wielding heavy weapons like gun emplacements (particle/energy weapons) along the lines of what you remember from the Hoth battle in "The Empire Strikes Back". Remember those dish-looking guns in the rear that would fire relatively infrequently but presumably doing significant damage? They were taken out dramatically by AT-ATs, but you get the idea. These weapons would do HUGE amounts of AOE damage, and moderate anti-vehicular damage, albeit with relatively long cycle times. They would primarily be used as anti-vehicle weapons, but could be used anti-personnel a la artillery. Note that the large firepower being projected would not necessarily have to be pinpoint accurate (think machine gun), but it would be devastating nonetheless.
The commando's second part to play would be more of a mid-range part. The acid rifle is a rifle, although specialized to do acid damage. Most armor is probably not tuned to protect much against acid damage, so commando's providing fire support using this specialized weapon would be able to take down key individual targets at range in support of advancing carbineers, etc. They wouldn't have the accuracy, mind shot, or remote DB capabilities of the rifleman, but would play this special role.
The third part to play would be closer-in still, i.e, at carbine range and closer. The flamethrower would be useful here, and its focus on heat damage, again, would inflict damage that not everyone will be able to defense against. I think 20m range is reasonable here. Again, though, this part should be viewed as combat support rather than taking away from the carbineers, etc. Continuing, grenades would be relevant here, including the fragmentation, cryoban, and thermal detonator types doing blast, cold, and heat damage, respectively. I think all combat classes should be able to throw grenades, but the commandos should be particularly adept in terms of accuracy, range, and speed. A skilled commando should be capable of unleashing two or three grenades in close succession, following up with carbine and/or launcher pistol fire to bring unearthly amounts of firepower to bear on close-in targets.
The "Covert" Role
=================
The role for covert commandos would be structure destruction and small-scale engagements in PvP. For structure destruction, I think Imperial detonators and proton grenades might be used, though maybe they could see combat use, too. Also, the launcher pistol, remade into a carbine-like weapon, could be used to add to the fray, particularly on smaller structures like harvesters, etc. Large houses, factories, PA halls (hehe) might require multiple commandos unleashing a large number of munitions on the target, but you get the idea.
Also, mine laying should be a commando job. This could be anti-personnel (a la claymore) or anti-vehicular. Lots of potential here, I think.
Weapons Usage Summary
=====================
Launcher pistol: Should be converted to a carbine-like weapon dealing significant HW damage at medium range. Suitable for anti-personnel AOE attacks and destruction of small structures (harvesters, etc.).
Heavy Acid Rifle: Suitable for medium-range acid attacks against armored targets, both vehicular and personnel. Not an AOE weapon, but focused on individual targets.
Particle beam weapon: An emplacement that the commando controls to target larger, slower moving, heavily armored targets such as AT-STs, AT-ATs, etc.
Flamethrower: 20m-range weapon for close-in fire support and "cleaning up".
Grenades: Throwable by all combat classes, but especially deadly in the hands of a commando. See "Training", next.
Mines: Anti-vehicular and anti-personnel.
Training
========
The tactics branch of commando could further develop unarmed combat to offer the covert commando the ability to do serious one-on-one damage to another character (PvE or one-on-one PvP) a la the Teras Kasi artist, but without the additional balance and meditative techniques the TKA has. In other words, the commando could do the Steven Seagal thing minus the beads. In unarmed combat, the TKA could still defeat the commando by virtue of his additional mental and balance conditioning, but beyond that, the commando could defeat pretty much anyone else in unarmed combat, including a master brawler.
Beyond this, the commando would be certified to wield a commando knife. Although using such a knife would not be unarmed combat in the most strict sense, he would be as deadly with the commando knife as a 1H melee specialist would be. However, the commando knife would be the only 1H weapon the commando could wield without additional training in the 1H brawler path.
So tactics would develop unarmed and knife abilities. They would also develop thrown weapon abilities, including grenades, but also including throwing the commando knife. The result of the thrown weapon training would make the commando the specialist in grenade usage, at least twice as accurate and fast as a non-commando.
Acid rifle, flamethrower, and particle beam would each have completely distinct paths through the commando tree, each resulting in greater accuracy, range, and speed. The master title would cap all of these abilities off nicely, as you'd expect.
Finally, not to take anything away from the Squad Leaders, the tactics path would provide certain skills/ability mods useful to the commando. Retreating would not be one of them, but volley fire and group aiming, as well as group morale would seem good. The commandos would probably not group with non-commandos that much, but would definitely be able to benefit from elite commando squad groupings that are very task-specific.
Finally, the tactics path would allow the commando to develop munitions add-ins for the weaponsmith to use in making better-quality grenades. I know some people say they don't want commandos crafting anything, but I know I'd dig this feature. And it's not out of line relative to, say, the bio-engineer providing tissues for use in tailored items. The bottom line here is that commandos are experts in munitions usage and should be able to tweak them somehow. If not by crafting add-ins, then maybe by "slicing" munitions a la the smuggler. (The smuggler would then only do non-munition weapons.)
Weapons Availability
====================
On the subject of weapons availability, higher-level weapons should require more resources, with a few being somewhat rarer, though no rarer than those required for, say, a T21 rifle, for instance. The thing is, the quantity of resources for the best weapons should be such that the cost is quite high. That would prevent the awesomely powerful weapons from being brought to bear in routine situations. Nonetheless, if you can afford them, you can have access to them; they wouldn't be artificially rare.
Summary
=======
There are probably many more things that could be detailed out, but I don't want to lose absolutely everyone with an even longer post. These are just my thoughts. Maybe someone will like them.
Good luck to us all. Thanks for reading.
That said, I've been playing SWG for about 3 1/2 weeks now trying different characters to figure out how I wanted to play the game. I've finally decided I want to be a commando. I'm pretty sure if I can't go commando, I will cancel my subscription.
I've read through this thread, plus others, to get the gist of the problems with the commando profession. I've formed an opinion of what the commando profession could/should be, in my humble opinion at least. I offer it here for what it's worth. This thread may be ignored, so a developer/CSR may never see it, but if you want to repost any portion somewhere more useful, please do.
I believe the commando can play two roles in SWG: an overt role and a covert role. Note that I don't mean how the commando is declared so much as I mean the nature of the activities performed in each role.
The "Overt" Role
================
Not counting PvE, I believe bounty hunters are tuned for one-on-one PvP combat. In contrast, I believe commandos should be tuned for (a) one-on-many, and (b) anti-vehicle/structure PvP combat. I have developed a lot of frustration reading the various boards re: PvP and seeing people's focus on one-on-one combat, like that's what it's all about. I think a much richer, cooler vision of SWG combat involves a densely populated battlefield with hundreds (yes, hundreds) of riflemen, carbineers, pistoleers, melee fighters, and commandos duking it out, for the most part led by squad leaders in tight units. The riflemen would provide long-range sniping/suppression fire; the carbineers would be the first-wave assault folks; the melee fighters and pistoleers would go in and finish off stragglers in close-in combat, etc.
In this vision, the commandos would be the firepower experts. As any student of modern warfare knows, firepower was the key development in the 20th century that totally changed the rules of warfare (before that, marksmanship was prioritized). The ability to project high-volume, high-destruction fire down field to the enemy is key. The commando would be responsible for the most brilliant displays of this (not just graphically, btw). To do this, they would play three parts.
First, some would provide fire support from the rear wielding heavy weapons like gun emplacements (particle/energy weapons) along the lines of what you remember from the Hoth battle in "The Empire Strikes Back". Remember those dish-looking guns in the rear that would fire relatively infrequently but presumably doing significant damage? They were taken out dramatically by AT-ATs, but you get the idea. These weapons would do HUGE amounts of AOE damage, and moderate anti-vehicular damage, albeit with relatively long cycle times. They would primarily be used as anti-vehicle weapons, but could be used anti-personnel a la artillery. Note that the large firepower being projected would not necessarily have to be pinpoint accurate (think machine gun), but it would be devastating nonetheless.
The commando's second part to play would be more of a mid-range part. The acid rifle is a rifle, although specialized to do acid damage. Most armor is probably not tuned to protect much against acid damage, so commando's providing fire support using this specialized weapon would be able to take down key individual targets at range in support of advancing carbineers, etc. They wouldn't have the accuracy, mind shot, or remote DB capabilities of the rifleman, but would play this special role.
The third part to play would be closer-in still, i.e, at carbine range and closer. The flamethrower would be useful here, and its focus on heat damage, again, would inflict damage that not everyone will be able to defense against. I think 20m range is reasonable here. Again, though, this part should be viewed as combat support rather than taking away from the carbineers, etc. Continuing, grenades would be relevant here, including the fragmentation, cryoban, and thermal detonator types doing blast, cold, and heat damage, respectively. I think all combat classes should be able to throw grenades, but the commandos should be particularly adept in terms of accuracy, range, and speed. A skilled commando should be capable of unleashing two or three grenades in close succession, following up with carbine and/or launcher pistol fire to bring unearthly amounts of firepower to bear on close-in targets.
The "Covert" Role
=================
The role for covert commandos would be structure destruction and small-scale engagements in PvP. For structure destruction, I think Imperial detonators and proton grenades might be used, though maybe they could see combat use, too. Also, the launcher pistol, remade into a carbine-like weapon, could be used to add to the fray, particularly on smaller structures like harvesters, etc. Large houses, factories, PA halls (hehe) might require multiple commandos unleashing a large number of munitions on the target, but you get the idea.
Also, mine laying should be a commando job. This could be anti-personnel (a la claymore) or anti-vehicular. Lots of potential here, I think.
Weapons Usage Summary
=====================
Launcher pistol: Should be converted to a carbine-like weapon dealing significant HW damage at medium range. Suitable for anti-personnel AOE attacks and destruction of small structures (harvesters, etc.).
Heavy Acid Rifle: Suitable for medium-range acid attacks against armored targets, both vehicular and personnel. Not an AOE weapon, but focused on individual targets.
Particle beam weapon: An emplacement that the commando controls to target larger, slower moving, heavily armored targets such as AT-STs, AT-ATs, etc.
Flamethrower: 20m-range weapon for close-in fire support and "cleaning up".
Grenades: Throwable by all combat classes, but especially deadly in the hands of a commando. See "Training", next.
Mines: Anti-vehicular and anti-personnel.
Training
========
The tactics branch of commando could further develop unarmed combat to offer the covert commando the ability to do serious one-on-one damage to another character (PvE or one-on-one PvP) a la the Teras Kasi artist, but without the additional balance and meditative techniques the TKA has. In other words, the commando could do the Steven Seagal thing minus the beads. In unarmed combat, the TKA could still defeat the commando by virtue of his additional mental and balance conditioning, but beyond that, the commando could defeat pretty much anyone else in unarmed combat, including a master brawler.
Beyond this, the commando would be certified to wield a commando knife. Although using such a knife would not be unarmed combat in the most strict sense, he would be as deadly with the commando knife as a 1H melee specialist would be. However, the commando knife would be the only 1H weapon the commando could wield without additional training in the 1H brawler path.
So tactics would develop unarmed and knife abilities. They would also develop thrown weapon abilities, including grenades, but also including throwing the commando knife. The result of the thrown weapon training would make the commando the specialist in grenade usage, at least twice as accurate and fast as a non-commando.
Acid rifle, flamethrower, and particle beam would each have completely distinct paths through the commando tree, each resulting in greater accuracy, range, and speed. The master title would cap all of these abilities off nicely, as you'd expect.
Finally, not to take anything away from the Squad Leaders, the tactics path would provide certain skills/ability mods useful to the commando. Retreating would not be one of them, but volley fire and group aiming, as well as group morale would seem good. The commandos would probably not group with non-commandos that much, but would definitely be able to benefit from elite commando squad groupings that are very task-specific.
Finally, the tactics path would allow the commando to develop munitions add-ins for the weaponsmith to use in making better-quality grenades. I know some people say they don't want commandos crafting anything, but I know I'd dig this feature. And it's not out of line relative to, say, the bio-engineer providing tissues for use in tailored items. The bottom line here is that commandos are experts in munitions usage and should be able to tweak them somehow. If not by crafting add-ins, then maybe by "slicing" munitions a la the smuggler. (The smuggler would then only do non-munition weapons.)
Weapons Availability
====================
On the subject of weapons availability, higher-level weapons should require more resources, with a few being somewhat rarer, though no rarer than those required for, say, a T21 rifle, for instance. The thing is, the quantity of resources for the best weapons should be such that the cost is quite high. That would prevent the awesomely powerful weapons from being brought to bear in routine situations. Nonetheless, if you can afford them, you can have access to them; they wouldn't be artificially rare.
Summary
=======
There are probably many more things that could be detailed out, but I don't want to lose absolutely everyone with an even longer post. These are just my thoughts. Maybe someone will like them.
Good luck to us all. Thanks for reading.
Stuktongue
Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:46 pm
#2
Oh, yeah....
'Weaps' Havoc
Commando Hopeful
Mos Entha, Tatooine (Flurry)
'Weaps' Havoc
Commando Hopeful
Mos Entha, Tatooine (Flurry)
Stuktongue
Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:26 am
#3
Okay, I'll bump this just once because I'm interested to know if anyone sees things as I do ... or if I am dead wrong in my views.
Take it easy.
'Weaps' Havoc; Mos Entha, Tatooine (Flurry)
CommanDOH
Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:05 am
#4
The ideas are not bad, But then anything is better than what we have now... and ultimately a lot of us have very different ideas about what our class should be. But a commando should be a master of stealth and 1 on 1 combat.
Did any of you read about the army special forces guys who caught a bunch of supporters of Saddam trying to sneak into Iraq to help? The special forceswere outnumbered and killed all of the guys at hand to hand combat with fixed bayonets. this would lead me to believe a commando IS a 1 on 1 pvp specialist. as a green beret is a commando, and that was obviously that sort of situation...
Hey, thats not a badidea, bayonets for commandos to put on ranged weapons 
although ti would look stupid on an acid rifle... thing looks like one of the tubes you hold schematics in.
Stuktongue
Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:44 am
#5
Thanks for your reply.
The U.S. Special Forces is an interesting example. As I understand it, their primary role is working with indigenous forces developing guerilla fighting operations. I think the classical notion of the commando derives more from the British Commandoes of World War II, whose legacy probably most lives on today in the SAS. I believe their role is counter-terrorism, rescue, and small unit strikes, a la the U.S. Navy Seals (although probably not with the focus on sea operations).
Anyway, I support the one-on-one PvP via unarmed (and with commando knife), so I'm glad to see you like that, too. I agree that there are many people with different ideas as to the role of the commando. Since I believe the devs have not answered the player community's questions re: what they think that role is, I offered up my views to try to seed that thought process. Hopefully, more folks will contribute their ideas and, collectively, we might build an ops concept that the devs could use as a road map for the class.
'Weaps' Havoc; Mos Entha, Tatooine (Flurry)
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