CUEmu - Thread Posts

Daker-Naritus

Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:49 pm

Ok, so I spent the past week (including the long Labor Day weekend) getting reacquainted with the new combat system, and playing with my /respec command.

My intial impressions: I really like the combat upgrade. I have enjoyed it thusfar, and I think the devs did an overall good job. I like the new icons, the cross-class specials, and the stackability. I think class balance has been greatly improved, and the con system works outstandingly now. I also love the new HAM bar.

After screwing around with the system for 30+ hours, I have only one question:

Why the HELL would anyone choose commando?

Seriously! Has anyone seen the movie "Twins?" Scientists genetically engineer 2 twins, and the Governator (Arnold) gets all the good traits and Danny DeVito gets all the leftover crap?

My friends, WE are Danny DeVito...

Where do I even start:

(1) DPS not that much better than other classes - Sure commando pure damage is a little better on most weapons. However, in the pure TH tradition, it appears that the devs are STILL ignoring DPS and delay timers. Bumping a weapons' damage up several notches and increasing the delay timer does nothing....why is this so hard to comprehend? I thought we were supposed to be a 5 in damage...since when does 5=3?

We need a DPS boost....fast.

(2) Our AOE...are you KIDDING me - Ok...ignore for a second that AOE is currently broken on ALMOST EVERY SINGLE weapon we have (and the fact that it appears it has been that way for 6+ months)...

What good is our AOE?

Has anyone ever run into a group of Storm Troopers (or any other NPC with guns for that matter) and tried to keep them in a 6m radius of each other? Obviously the developers haven't. It's like freaking cat herding...NPCs scatter in every direction upon attack.

The result of this change is that (1) commandos' initial shot aggros the intended mobs PLUS every other mob in a 6 mile radius, and (2) if they are NPCs or creatures with ranged attacks, those mobs then scatter in every direction so you can never use AOE on them again. You get WAY to many mobs shooting/attacking you from the start, and likely can't use your AOE to attack them because of the AOE radius.

Again...this assumes that the AOE even works (which I guess is too much to ask).

AOE needs some sort of ON/OFF button so we can control aggro better. Maybe ALL our heavy weapons should be single-mob attacks, but the devs could give us a buff that makes heavy weapons (not regular weapons) AOE for 10 minutes. At least then we could turn it on and off as needed.

(3) State Effects - What's with this "might" stick crap? Either our weapon has a state effect, or it doesn't. I spent a couple of hours playing with different classes abilities and templates...each of the other classes was able to blind, stun, dizzy, etc. almost EVERY SINGLE TIME I tried it (at least 90%). Why can't we? If our weapons are our "specials," why do our specials have to suck so bad compared to other classes?

What good is blind if you have to shoot the mob until it gets down to 10% health to get the effect to stick (thereby eliminating the benefit of the effect).

Worst case scenerio, our weapons need to be sticking their state effects 75% of the time. I can accept that I may have to shoot twice to get an effect to stick...more than that is just stupid.

Additionally, there are only 6 or so state effects so our weapons' effects overlap all over the place. Why to we need multiple weapons that all do the same thing?

(4) Weapon switching - I realize that it appears the purpose of the commando profession appears to be to provide some strong (yeah right) weapons that other classes can pick up and use with their ranged templates. I'm fine with that.

HOWEVER, for fuller commando templates the effect of our 15 different weapons, most with their own little niche/effect, is ridiculous. Battle becomes a constant weapon switching extragavanza, during which you are (a) concentrating on whether the desired effect icon appears under the mob's HAM bar, and (b) concentrating on quickly switching weapons between effects because no weapon does everything you need.

How much fun is a battle if you never get to look down at it?

The problem with states/weapon switching is a joint problem that needs to stop / be changed. Why not just split commando weapons into 2 classes:

(a) General Heavy Weapons - Have ONE group of effects for ALL heavy weapons that I will call "Blast Radius" for the purposes of this thread. Every mob that is hit by a commando heavy weapon is within the "Blast Radius" and has a 25% chance of being blinded, stunned, dizzyed, knocked down, fired, armor breaked, etc. (a separate 25% dice roll for each one). No matter what weapon a commando uses, there is a chance that multiple, or no, effects will be applied.

This would allow commando to use ONE weapon per encounter (chosen by damage type and DPS) but have the opportunity to apply several state effects through multiple shots on the mob. After 4-5 shots, chances are the mob will be effected by multiple states. This is the same effect as the current system WITHOUT all the annoying weapon switching.

(b) Grenades - Each has a 90% - 95% chance of causing ONE (and only one) state effect. A commando's option when they want to be sure a certain effects gets applied. Gives grenades an actual purpose, without pure redundancy with other weapons.

(5) Also, I have one other issue I wanted to inquire about, as I haven't seen the answer elsewhere: PLEASE tell me that FS ranged skills are now working with commando weapons. These were broke for the last 3-4 months I played, and weren't fixed for the 3-4 months after that (as I trolled the boards just for that issue). I assume they are fixed, and I didn't see any mention of them in the issue threads. If not, that is completely unexcusable.

Sum - To me....what the devs did to commando beyond comprehension. Even if AOE is fixed, the commando class sucks and doesn't even begin to be a worthwhile class (even with stacked abilities from other classes). Feel free to comment and disagree if you like, but I doubt there will be many dissenters..... (NOTE: I said WORTHWHILE...not viable. I'm sure commandos can kill things...my point is that there are tons of other classes that can do it better and more efficiently, thereby making it silly to choose commando)

In the meantime, I am seriously considering /respec'ing to BH instead of commando. I am a die-hard commando fan, but this is too much...

Help me out here! Is there something I am missing?

Raptor2k1

Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:19 pm

#2

That's pretty much what we've all been saying since CU beta.

Ironically, the AE thing actually plays out quite well in crowd control though. Smuggler/Commando templates can generate a lot of natural (PvP) hate fast when you do a concussion shot that simultaneously knocks everyone down...

I'm still not sure what direction I'm going to take my SS character that I recently started playing (finally), but I'm not sure if I'll go commando, or make my own "commando" template from the others. I really want to throw Master rifleman in it for the new stealth abilities (dropping off radar owns), but at the same time, it seems I'd be much better off taking carbines and manybe some smuggler to complement it (or maybe even BH) vs commando.

Though the thought of an invisible man area KD'ing folks from 80m out is rather tempting...

Kyeran Halkyon

Master Gunfighter and Demolitionist of the Old Republic Navy
SWG Commando Forum

Kesslan

Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:01 am

#3

While it's not quite true with all grenades. There ARE some. When made Post CU for dot that you can actulaly get over a 90 percent stic rate on the dot (Glop grenades for blind for example.) And the otehrs you can get up pretty high save for cryobans which stillt end to be horrifically low chances of sticking (yet oddly i've never noticed it FAIL to stick a dot)

The problem is the massive delays on the grenades. Your better off just picking up those specials from another proff and just using them witha gun for the most part. The glop for blind and the cryoban dual snares (Attack slowdown and movement speed) Seem to be the only ones worth using even. The other dots dont last terribly long or do much even when crafted post cu going all into the dot (Like thermals still do reallycrappy worthless firedamage in the 40 point range kinda thing)

Maybe... some day we'll get our revision. I mean they did one release just for CH pretty much, anodhter for smuggler (Ok yeah so they cant smuggle but the new slice system was well recieved, and their GOOD in combat to boot), and now their doing squad leader.

Seems to me all that's left for major revisions is Ranger and Commando.

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Daker-Naritus

Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:45 am

#4

Kesslan wrote:

Seems to me all that's left for major revisions is Ranger and Commando.

Oh, we can still get some major ignore-age after that.

I have seen plenty of crafter threads saying "ok, you fixed combat, now fix us!"

Also, sooner or later, they will need to fix the FRS and do, yet another, jedi revamp.

Heh, it always pisses me off that they want to limit the number of jedi (and institute a major xp nerf, in part,to help curb jedi progression), but they dedicate multiple revamps to jedi and fill every promotional video with lightsabers. Jedi are supposed to be the exception to the rule, but the devs keep posting them on the forefront.

Anyhoo...I guess my point is that I'm sure the devs probably feel that commandois "working as intended," as stupid as that is, and doubt we will be gettingthe revamp we need anytime soon. The devs have been promising a Smuggler Revamp for over a year, and are just finally starting the initial stages of making it happen. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if we stay broken for at least another year (after all...they have Obi Wan and 2 other expansions to throw out in that period of time... *frown*)

Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 09-07-2005 07:47 AM

nbd9k

Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:06 am

#5

Daker-Naritus wrote:

Kesslan wrote:

Seems to me all that's left for major revisions is Ranger and Commando.

Oh, we can still get some major ignore-age after that.

I have seen plenty of crafter threads saying "ok, you fixed combat, now fix us!"

Also, sooner or later, they will need to fix the FRS and do, yet another, jedi revamp.

Heh, it always pisses me off that they want to limit the number of jedi (and institute a major xp nerf, in part,to help curb jedi progression), but they dedicate multiple revamps to jedi and fill every promotional video with lightsabers. Jedi are supposed to be the exception to the rule, but the devs keep posting them on the forefront.

Anyhoo...I guess my point is that I'm sure the devs probably feel that commandois "working as intended," as stupid as that is, and doubt we will be gettingthe revamp we need anytime soon. The devs have been promising a Smuggler Revamp for over a year, and are just finally starting the initial stages of making it happen. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if we stay broken for at least another year (after all...they have Obi Wan and 2 other expansions to throw out in that period of time... *frown*)

Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 09-07-2005 07:47 AM

They DONT want to limit the number of jedi. Jedi related professions are now the most played professions in the game, and theyve consistantly made it easier for players to access their jedi powers.

I think that they changed the age group focus of the game towards 10-14 year olds who saw the new movies and want to run around with lightsabers. the timeline has been thrown out the window with no sign of repair, and now they're kind of herding everyone towards jedi as the ultimate profession. With the revamp in place, most of the upper level content is close to impossible without at least a few jedi in the group.

I feel bad for us as commandos, but i really feel bad for the crafting professions. even entertainers got a leg up in the past couple of patches, and there are fewer and fewer serious crafters left in the game. pretty soon the only good weapons will be the loot drops.

I know the devs really do work to keep this game on track, but they answer to capitalism before they answer to the players, and when the word comes down that they have to drop what theyre doing and focus on an unwanted expansion, they do it. Im surprised more of them havent quit. It would insult my integrity to keep working a job with those conditions.

StarNick

Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:45 pm

#6

From what it seems to be, yep. My FS ranged speed stacks like how it should, and raised the DPS on my HW's when I first got 'em post-CU.

--Stern Synex-- --Master Commando-- --IDI Forces----Proud Commando of 42 Months-- --Last Commando Correspondent--
We fear no enemy...we are the few, the proud, and the brave. We are, Commando!
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TK-132

Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:19 pm

#7

Um yep.

*Lights the Campfire listening to the Crickets*

Major Bluko Oll

Imperial High Command

Master Commando

Black Epsilon Ace

"Many things are said, but few are true."

Daker-Naritus

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:30 am

#8

Daker-Naritus wrote:

(5) Also, I have one other issue I wanted to inquire about, as I haven't seen the answer elsewhere: PLEASE tell me that FS ranged skills are now working with commando weapons. These were broke for the last 3-4 months I played, and weren't fixed for the 3-4 months after that (as I trolled the boards just for that issue). I assume they are fixed, and I didn't see any mention of them in the issue threads. If not, that is completely unexcusable.

Do we have an answer to this?

Commando Archive

Thread: So, help me out here....