Commando Archive
Thread: It starts here. Please read and SIGN
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WunShot
Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:08 am
#1
Firstandforemost,I would like to say I am not here to flame DEVs or complain about the many things that need fixing in this game.
Now that that's out of the way,I'd also like to sayGood Morning/Afternoon/Night (whatever time it is where you are)
Thankyou for taking a few minutes of your life to read this post that may very well be pointless and go nowhere at all.
I realize I am not a respected member of these forums, and in fact this is my first time posting here although i have lurked these boards since i started playing.
I have created this post in response to the following statement posted from a chat between TH and Rare_Hunter from this thread:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=201994
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Rare_Hunter: why cant we communicate like this on the forum? not trying to
be a smart you know what
Rare_Hunter: i mean, we have SO many ideas
TH: because there are no leaders that helpo maintain the discussion like in
the old days and it turns into a flamefest.
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be a smart you know what
Rare_Hunter: i mean, we have SO many ideas
TH: because there are no leaders that helpo maintain the discussion like in
the old days and it turns into a flamefest.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I havetwoquestions about TH's statement here:
1. Yes you do have leaders to help maintain discussion, Isn't that what correspondents are for? If not, then what are they for?
2. You have In Concept/In Developement/and In Live threads where we are supposed to give feedback on these subjects, however, we never get feedback from Devs in those threads. And there are only eight....EIGHT threads in the In Concept category only FOUR of them being revamp discussions with little feedback from the Devs.I really think we can come up with more than 4 things the community would like to give feedback on in this WHOLE game. Why not use these threads to your advantage instead of not at all?
I know the DEVS are busy, i know they have a lot of work to do and its hard for them to find time to post in the forums. Im also sure that they can only do what their bosses tell them, and not what we ask of them. But we really need some feedback ourselves. We WANT TO HELP THE DEVS. Not flame them, Im sure they do work hard (or else they wouldnt have their jobs)
What i propose is a petition to:
1. Start using the concept/dev/live boards to their fullest extent.
2. I also propose a VOTING system where we can vote on what we'd like to see happen in the game. Of course the options we vote on will be communicated to the DEVS by our corrospondents. This lets us have a say in what we'd like fixed and prevents flaming of the devs since we only have the choice to vote and not flame.
3. Also, i think we'd all like to stop being kept in the dark about what is going on. This is NOT the way to ensure customer satisfaction. Even our correspondents are left in the dark about many things.
4. Last but not least....we also need deadlines....REAL deadlines that can be kept. I understand that some deadlines are hard to keep, but you compensate for that by making your deadlines at a later date than you actually expect to be done. Everytime the devs say "soon" someone cancels a subscription. Thats not good for business at all.
Again, im not posting this to flame, im posting this to help. Not only help us as a community, but the devs too. I also realize im a nobody, and very few people here even know me. But together i think we can change things.
If you feel the same way, please Sign. And again, thankyou for your time.
Wun
P.S Yes i know this is not exactly the right place to post this, but there's no General SWG thread, and not only do i plan to post this here, but i plan to eventually post this in every profession thread. I just started this thread here because commando happens to be part of my template, and im very impressed with the commando community and Garvin as well. You are all good people, and open minded.
Hitokiri_kenshin
Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:26 am
#2
/sign
Bravo. I agree wholeheartedly. There have been so many "improvements" to this game that everyone has hated, and there are so manty professions have slipped by the wayside. Creature handler is a touchy one too because it used to be overpowerd and now it has no purpose. CHs can't even use their pets as tanks properly anymore because they can't hold agro like they used too. I figured that was the whole purpose of a CH was to tank. I guess I figured wrong especially with the new raid content such as the DWB and such. A CH there is more like comic relief than anything.
Besides I have given up hope for this game for PVP. It just desn't have the propper structure and is incredibly unrewarding.
Gunner_excel
Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:35 am
#3
/cheer- good post
So Garvin what is the relationship between correspondents and TH, maybe i should go read some of the other proffesion forums to see how how there correspondents are. I think you do a great job but maybe some of the others are ruining it for all the correspondents. On second thought i wont becasue i see someone say something stupid im going to start a flame and I dont think other proffessions other than that forums should really comment in a negitve way. Oh well /kowtow Garvin.
KardenTyrell
Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:38 pm
#6
TH: because there are no leaders that helpo maintain the discussion like in
the old days and it turns into a flamefest.
Before you comment on that instance, you would have to know how exactly it was in the "old days".
the old days and it turns into a flamefest.
Before you comment on that instance, you would have to know how exactly it was in the "old days".
Latenighter
Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:06 pm
#7
/sign
Well put. Especially deadlines.
Rien - Master Commando
Corbantis
Well put. Especially deadlines.
Rien - Master Commando
Corbantis
JavaHulk
Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:50 pm
#11
Here Here! Every point is absolutly correct, full voting on important patches, extream use of boards for insight into the game world by the devs, and actual reasonable estimates on timeframes by the devs (even if they say something like, at the latest, 3 months from now) atleast we'd have THAT to go by.
/sign
TennerRavenstar
Sun Sep 26, 2004 7:24 pm
#12
Very good post. IMHO, a better level of communication in this game could potentially go a long way to reduce the level of hostility between the players and the devs, as well as the fustration felt by a large part of the playerbase.
A couple of toughts on your specific points:
1. Yes you do have leaders to help maintain discussion, Isn't that what correspondents are for? If not, then what are they for?
Agreed. One thought however is the level and form of dicussion that can be resonably maintained in an open forum. When a developer posts its not uncommon for those posts to often gather 100+ replies within an hour or two, especially if its a 'hot' topic. It would not be realistic to expect the developers to keep an ongoing dialog with a 100+ people at once, I would be way to much work / effort.
As I see it, the overall most effective way of communicating between developers and players is for the developers to post in public, and use the correspondants to gather replies, feedback and oppinions. This is in essance what is happening now.. however... it is becomming SO rare for the developers to actually supply information on whats happening, what they are working on, what they think and what they plan on. A lot of people are left with the inpression that this is kept within the correspondants forums. Whether this is true, I've no idea.. probably to some extent.
What I would like to see is:
a) Dev's posting directly to the player base. Let us in the loop on whats happening and what is being considered.
b) Dev's to post on 'major issues' of the various professions. We know they read the forums and we know the correspondants keep them up to date on our issues. I would very much like to see them show up and post some input on some of the things players are talking about. It's silly that we still got issues existing, that are 6 months or more old.. and no one really kow if its a bug or working as intended. This would not require them to keep a dialog going directly, but would still let them provide and generate feedback on exsisting issues, ideas and so forth.
2. You have In Concept/In Developement/and In Live threads where we are supposed to give feedback on these subjects, however, we never get feedback from Devs in those threads. And there are only eight....EIGHT threads in the In Concept category only FOUR of them being revamp discussions with little feedback from the Devs. I really think we can come up with more than 4 things the community would like to give feedback on in this WHOLE game. Why not use these threads to your advantage instead of not at all?
a) Dev's posting directly to the player base. Let us in the loop on whats happening and what is being considered.
b) Dev's to post on 'major issues' of the various professions. We know they read the forums and we know the correspondants keep them up to date on our issues. I would very much like to see them show up and post some input on some of the things players are talking about. It's silly that we still got issues existing, that are 6 months or more old.. and no one really kow if its a bug or working as intended. This would not require them to keep a dialog going directly, but would still let them provide and generate feedback on exsisting issues, ideas and so forth.
2. You have In Concept/In Developement/and In Live threads where we are supposed to give feedback on these subjects, however, we never get feedback from Devs in those threads. And there are only eight....EIGHT threads in the In Concept category only FOUR of them being revamp discussions with little feedback from the Devs. I really think we can come up with more than 4 things the community would like to give feedback on in this WHOLE game. Why not use these threads to your advantage instead of not at all?
Overlapping with the above somewhat, I agree though, the 'in concept', 'in development' and 'in live' presents a great oppotunity for communication between players and developers, but its currently being neglected. Again, while its not fair to expect the developers to reply directly to alle (or even the bulk) of player posts there, what they could do is read over the replies and once in a while (once a week or so depending on whats happening in the discussion) post a summary / general reply / reply to the main ideas and issues being presented by the players.
I know the DEVS are busy, i know they have a lot of work to do and its hard for them to find time to post in the forums. Im also sure that they can only do what their bosses tell them, and not what we ask of them. But we really need some feedback ourselves. We WANT TO HELP THE DEVS. Not flame them, Im sure they do work hard (or else they wouldnt have their jobs)
What i propose is a petition to:
1. Start using the concept/dev/live boards to their fullest extent.
2. I also propose a VOTING system where we can vote on what we'd like to see happen in the game. Of course the options we vote on will be communicated to the DEVS by our corrospondents. This lets us have a say in what we'd like fixed and prevents flaming of the devs since we only have the choice to vote and not flame.
I know the DEVS are busy, i know they have a lot of work to do and its hard for them to find time to post in the forums. Im also sure that they can only do what their bosses tell them, and not what we ask of them. But we really need some feedback ourselves. We WANT TO HELP THE DEVS. Not flame them, Im sure they do work hard (or else they wouldnt have their jobs)
What i propose is a petition to:
1. Start using the concept/dev/live boards to their fullest extent.
2. I also propose a VOTING system where we can vote on what we'd like to see happen in the game. Of course the options we vote on will be communicated to the DEVS by our corrospondents. This lets us have a say in what we'd like fixed and prevents flaming of the devs since we only have the choice to vote and not flame.
I think this one is more problematic. While they could easily use a voting system more activly than they currently are (with the once in a while polls on the forum.. are they still doing those?), I'm not sure the devs could make the resaults public. In essance, if they instituded a voting system on the major issues, they would either have to act (more or less) in accordance with the resault of such a vote, or generate a whole lot of negativity towards them. I'm not sure the development of a game such as this can be run effectivly though a democatic system.
3. Also, i think we'd all like to stop being kept in the dark about what is going on. This is NOT the way to ensure customer satisfaction. Even our correspondents are left in the dark about many things.
3. Also, i think we'd all like to stop being kept in the dark about what is going on. This is NOT the way to ensure customer satisfaction. Even our correspondents are left in the dark about many things.
Agreed, we need a LOT more feedback from the deves. Nothing is as fustrating as being kept in the dark. It feeds people negativty and fustrations.
4. Last but not least....we also need deadlines....REAL deadlines that can be kept. I understand that some deadlines are hard to keep, but you compensate for that by making your deadlines at a later date than you actually expect to be done. Everytime the devs say "soon" someone cancels a subscription. Thats not good for business at all.
4. Last but not least....we also need deadlines....REAL deadlines that can be kept. I understand that some deadlines are hard to keep, but you compensate for that by making your deadlines at a later date than you actually expect to be done. Everytime the devs say "soon" someone cancels a subscription. Thats not good for business at all.
Disagree on this one. I think the problem here is not lack of deadlines, but the slow pace in which things are happening, combined with lack of feedback as to how things are moving along. Deadlines are nice, but I don't think adding set in stone deadlines would really improve things.
Very good post, I do wish I had more faith in some of these surgestions seeing the light of day. I'm more than a little sceptical though
Very good post, I do wish I had more faith in some of these surgestions seeing the light of day. I'm more than a little sceptical though
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