Commando Archive
Thread: From SWGCommando: The Next Commando Weapon (as the community desires)
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Ryubushi
Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:12 am
#1
Would you rather the next Commando Weapon be:
A Melee Weapon with Melee Specials 3%
A Ranged Weapon with Ranged Specials 71%
A Heavy Ranged Weapon with Melee Ranged Specials 25%
Votes : 52
Current Leader : A Ranged Weapon with Ranged Specials
Close Date : January 3, 2005, 1:00 pm
This poll was yanked from our beloved SWGCommando site.
Now, while I whole-heartedly agree with the majority of people who desire a ranged weapon with ranged specials, I'm not understanding why other people are voting for heavy with melee range and melee with melee range.
Now, a ranged weapon with ranged specials, I think, should have been with commando from the start. Every commando needs an assault weapon of some sort (British commandos in WWII preferred the good ol' American "Tommy Gun"). A ranged weapon will enable us to be viable in PvP, since we won't need to worry about closing in to 16 meters or less (something about the Master Commando tag seems to compel people to stay at least 20 meters from us for some odd reason). Being able to "reach out and touch" them would be hella handy.
But, why did some of you vote for heavy with melee range, and melee with melee range? Those two I just don't really get at all (and few things bother me more than not knowing something).
Granted, heavy weapons are awesome and powerful, but the short-range is a severe drawback (I don't like having to close to 16 meters to attack fencers/swordsmen/TKMs/Master Brawlers).
As for a melee weapon with melee specials... Well, I gotta admit; I have a deep-rooted love for hitting people with objects, be they sharp or blunt.
It's fun, and usually pretty funny.
Every commando needs a combat knife, yes, and they need to be well-versed in using it, but it should be a last-resort weapon.
I guess the bottom line I'm getting at is that I'm curious as to which of you voted for what, and why you voted for it (especially the heavy and melee weapons).
So, fess up or...I'll do something not nice.
Yeah, that's it, something not nice.
Start talking!
Message Edited by Ryubushi on 12-02-2004 01:12 AM
Message Edited by Ryubushi on 12-09-2004 10:18 PM
Warmaker01
Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:35 am
#2
A ranged weapon w/ ranged specials is far more flexible than either choice.
Heavy Weapon w/ Melee Ranged Specials? We already have that... the Flamethrower, and maybe the HAR if they fix that.
Melee Weapon w/ Melee Specials? This makes us even more inflexible. It forces Commando, a ranged profession, to close in at close ranges for these melee specials and/or the Flamethrower. Again, the Flamethrower is our close ranged weapon. And again, the HAR too, if that gets tweaked.
"If they can be fooled, they can be killed."
Calix
Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:56 am
#3
Maybe there should be a Ranged Weapon w/ Melee Attack... like a rifle butt attack that will make them dizzy and drop a position?
I'm new at the Commando profession, and I'm quite enjoying it... this would be something I would like to see. 
Silberado
Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:25 am
#4
I voted for a Ranged Weapon with Ranged Specials.
It is what we're missing but i dont think it is the answer to our weapons need. We need 3 different ranges for our weapons. Melee range we already have, so make us a mid-ranged weapon and turn the HAR into a true rifle. When they expanded the Melee range to our range they took away our advantage and made them uber.
garvin
Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:49 am
#5
We have all the potential of range, but none of the abilities to make use of it...
Let me ask you all this (and this is not a CU hint), why get another ranged weapon if we could take what we already have, alter it, alter our specials available, and MAKE them do what we want them to do? If our ranged weapons did what we WANTED them to do, what hole would that leave in a profession that who has a MELEE pre-req?
We are a Hybrid profession built from ALL combat pre-reqs...we are both Melee and Ranged (more ranged of course), and it's always been my feeling that our Offense and Defense should reflect that...I've always wanted to see especially our melee defenses boosted, better "ranged" attacks, and some incorporation of a Melee weapon with melee specials...That's why I personally voted for a Melee weapon to be our next weapon...
Many people say they want the Beam Rifle cert...but why couldn't the HAR BECOME like the Beam Rifle? We all know we want it revamped or replaced...Many of us want some type of new Heavy Weapon, well, for those following the .tre file posts, there have been some heavy sounding weapon graphics added over the last few publishes that, who knows, we might be able to snatch up...Personally I'm drooling over the idea of trying to get the "Underslung Carbine" (we have Heavy Weapons, we have a Weapon that could be a Heavy Rifle and we have a Heavy Pistol...there is one Heavy type of weapon missing...A Carbine)...If we had a Carbine, there is only one weapon missing that would compliment ALL of our Pre-Reqs...A Melee weapon...
Now...about my thoughts on a Melee Weapon that would fit Commandos...well, it might seem obvious what I have in mind, but you might be surprised...There are some big changes coming with the CU, and my ideas for our weapons, our specials available, etc are based on much of the info I can't share...but I can tell you, if we got theMelee Weapon I have in mind it would open some major doors to us and make us proficient in any Melee dirction we wanted to go...
So...If we could get our HAR converted into an actual HeavyRifle, Keep our FT, Keep our LP, and get a Heavy Carbine would you be open to the idea of adding some sort of Melee weapon to the Commando Profession? I know one of the biggest concerns that would impact the decission here would be what's currently going on with our LP (it's a pistol and we have no pistol skill mods or specials beyond marksman)...would a Melee or Carbine weapon be any different?The answer is yes...There are changes coming in the CU that will deal with our issues with weapons like the LP...
Thoughts?
PS...No...The Underslung Carbine is not currently the weapon that is scheduled to be added to Commandos via the CU...it's just on my wish list currently...Did want to get some false hopes up in that direction...But maybe if I keep pestering the Programmers they'll consider it...The fact that we require ALL of Marksman means we have some justification for the addition of a Heavy Carbine...
Latenighter
Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:49 am
#6
garvin wrote:We have all the potential of range, but none of the abilities to make use of it...Let me ask you all this (and this is not a CU hint), why get another ranged weapon if we could take what we already have, alter it, alter our specials available, and MAKE them do what we want them to do? If our ranged weapons did what we WANTED them to do, what hole would that leave in a profession that who has a MELEE pre-req?We are a Hybrid profession built from ALL combat pre-reqs...we are both Melee and Ranged (more ranged of course), and it's always been my feeling that our Offense and Defense should reflect that...I've always wanted to see especially our melee defenses boosted, better "ranged" attacks, and some incorporation of a Melee weapon with melee specials...That's why I personally voted for a Melee weapon to be our next weapon...Many people say they want the Beam Rifle cert...but why couldn't the HAR BECOME like the Beam Rifle? We all know we want it revamped or replaced...Many of us want some type of new Heavy Weapon, well, for those following the .tre file posts, there have been some heavy sounding weapon graphics added over the last few publishes that, who knows, we might be able to snatch up...Personally I'm drooling over the idea of trying to get the "Underslung Carbine" (we have Heavy Weapons, we have a Weapon that could be a Heavy Rifle and we have a Heavy Pistol...there is one Heavy type of weapon missing...A Carbine)...If we had a Carbine, there is only one weapon missing that would compliment ALL of our Pre-Reqs...A Melee weapon...Now...about my thoughts on a Melee Weapon that would fit Commandos...well, it might seem obvious what I have in mind, but you might be surprised...There are some big changes coming with the CU, and my ideas for our weapons, our specials available, etc are based on much of the info I can't share...but I can tell you, if we got the Melee Weapon I have in mind it would open some major doors to us and make us proficient in any Melee dirction we wanted to go...So...If we could get our HAR converted into an actual Heavy Rifle, Keep our FT, Keep our LP, and get a Heavy Carbine would you be open to the idea of adding some sort of Melee weapon to the Commando Profession? I know one of the biggest concerns that would impact the decission here would be what's currently going on with our LP (it's a pistol and we have no pistol skill mods or specials beyond marksman)...would a Melee or Carbine weapon be any different? The answer is yes...There are changes coming in the CU that will deal with our issues with weapons like the LP...Thoughts?PS...No...The Underslung Carbine is not currently the weapon that is scheduled to be added to Commandos via the CU...it's just on my wish list currently...Did want to get some false hopes up in that direction...But maybe if I keep pestering the Programmers they'll consider it...The fact that we require ALL of Marksman means we have some justification for the addition of a Heavy Carbine...
Ok Garvin. Great posting. A few thoughts, tying into the idea that Pre-Reqs actually need to mean something:
1. Beam rifle---give it cert at Master Marksman. Commandoes and BH get it that way, and so does anyone else that wants to invest the skill points.
2. Melee Weapon---sounds good and in keeping with image of commando. We just need specials and speed/accuracy improvements to use whatever it is effectively. Bayonet anyone?
3. HAR---fixing it? What a NOVEL idea! /sarcasm off. If we can use it LIKE a rifle (range) and get some sort of ranged specials and speed/accuracy with it, that would make our rifle pre-req meaningful.
4. Underslung Carbine---did you say "some justification"??? How about TOTAL justification! We have a pistol, we have a Rifle (if #3 happens that is), we have our flames, but we have NO carbine. We need it to make the pre-req make sense. With some ranged specials of course.
The overall result would be we have close range (mystery melee weapon), short range (Launcher pistol), mid range (underslung Carbine), long range (Fixed Rifle-like HAR), and non-consumable heavy weapon (Flamer). Combine that with Special Heavy Weapons (RL/HPBC/HLC) and working grenades that won't kill US faster than our enemies. We will actually SOUND like a profession worthy of 169 skill point investment.
We would be the master weapons USERS in the game, using all of them skillfully, but not as well as a SPECIALIST in one particular weapon (TKM, Pistoleer, Carbineer, Riflemen). If we want to be better in those categories, we can go spend our Skill Points to become better in those areas (250 point Commandos).
Our specialist category is in things that go BOOM, like Grenades, Flamethrowers, and Special Heavy Weapons. We will be the best in the game at using THOSE weapons. And putting in an E-web for Commandos and Squad Leaders with complementary usage benefits would be icing on the cake for our weapons specialization.
Is it even realistic to hope for this Garvin? It's a great vision, but if it get's the patented SOETyrant "fuggedaboudit" right from the start, then maybe we shouldn't be dreaming along these lines.
garvin
Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:13 am
#7
Latenighter wrote:
The overall result would be we have close range (mystery melee weapon), short range (Launcher pistol), mid range (underslung Carbine), long range (Fixed Rifle-like HAR), and non-consumable heavy weapon (Flamer). Combine that with Special Heavy Weapons (RL/HPBC/HLC) and working grenades that won't kill US faster than our enemies. We will actually SOUND like a profession worthy of 169 skill point investment.
We would be the master weapons USERS in the game, using all of them skillfully, but not as well as a SPECIALIST in one particular weapon (TKM, Pistoleer, Carbineer, Riflemen). If we want to be better in those categories, we can go spend our Skill Points to become better in those areas (250 point Commandos).
Our specialist category is in things that go BOOM, like Grenades, Flamethrowers, and Special Heavy Weapons. We will be the best in the game at using THOSE weapons. And putting in an E-web for Commandos and Squad Leaders with complementary usage benefits would be icing on the cake for our weapons specialization.
Is it even realistic to hope for this Garvin? It's a great vision, but if it get's the patented SOETyrant "fuggedaboudit" right from the start, then maybe we shouldn't be dreaming along these lines.
EXACTLY My thinking...it covers all our bases of being "Heavy Weapon Specialists"...
I've been asking Santa Tyrant to put an Underslung Carbine under the XMas tree for us for awhile...so far no word back, but I guess that's better then hearing "Ho Ho No!"...
The additions of a Carbine and Melee weapon just MAKE SENSE to me...it compliments all our pre-reqs...everything else we need can be found at home either via alterations, replacements or total revamps (the HAR)...As for specials and mods for any and all...don't worry about that...we are covered...
Cpl_Fisher
Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:31 am
#8
garvin wrote:
We have all the potential of range, but none of the abilities to make use of it...
Let me ask you all this (and this is not a CU hint), why get another ranged weapon if we could take what we already have, alter it, alter our specials available, and MAKE them do what we want them to do? If our ranged weapons did what we WANTED them to do, what hole would that leave in a profession that who has a MELEE pre-req?
We are a Hybrid profession built from ALL combat pre-reqs...we are both Melee and Ranged (more ranged of course), and it's always been my feeling that our Offense and Defense should reflect that...I've always wanted to see especially our melee defenses boosted, better "ranged" attacks, and some incorporation of a Melee weapon with melee specials...That's why I personally voted for a Melee weapon to be our next weapon...
Many people say they want the Beam Rifle cert...but why couldn't the HAR BECOME like the Beam Rifle? We all know we want it revamped or replaced...Many of us want some type of new Heavy Weapon, well, for those following the .tre file posts, there have been some heavy sounding weapon graphics added over the last few publishes that, who knows, we might be able to snatch up...Personally I'm drooling over the idea of trying to get the "Underslung Carbine" (we have Heavy Weapons, we have a Weapon that could be a Heavy Rifle and we have a Heavy Pistol...there is one Heavy type of weapon missing...A Carbine)...If we had a Carbine, there is only one weapon missing that would compliment ALL of our Pre-Reqs...A Melee weapon...
Now...about my thoughts on a Melee Weapon that would fit Commandos...well, it might seem obvious what I have in mind, but you might be surprised...There are some big changes coming with the CU, and my ideas for our weapons, our specials available, etc are based on much of the info I can't share...but I can tell you, if we got theMelee Weapon I have in mind it would open some major doors to us and make us proficient in any Melee dirction we wanted to go...
So...If we could get our HAR converted into an actual HeavyRifle, Keep our FT, Keep our LP, and get a Heavy Carbine would you be open to the idea of adding some sort of Melee weapon to the Commando Profession? I know one of the biggest concerns that would impact the decission here would be what's currently going on with our LP (it's a pistol and we have no pistol skill mods or specials beyond marksman)...would a Melee or Carbine weapon be any different?The answer is yes...There are changes coming in the CU that will deal with our issues with weapons like the LP...
Thoughts?
PS...No...The Underslung Carbine is not currently the weapon that is scheduled to be added to Commandos via the CU...it's just on my wish list currently...Did want to get some false hopes up in that direction...But maybe if I keep pestering the Programmers they'll consider it...The fact that we require ALL of Marksman means we have some justification for the addition of a Heavy Carbine...
Put in that light, I would agree with a melee weapon with melee range. Like you hinted at, It's real hard for us who haven't seen the docs to discuss with those who have, one of us is talking apples the other, oranges. From my point of view, we already have a melee weapon, the flamethrower. It's not even a great one, I once left my rifles at home, got into a fight, and got KITED by a Master brawler...... needless to say, Very embarising. As it is, My usual tactics is to Flushing/Strafe my opponent, warcry, peace, switch to flamethrower, intimidate and then HOPE i get that First shot to stick before i get KD'd. If I get swarmed, I just flamecone a couple of times then play dead. laugh at monkeys on fire.
StarNick
Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:22 pm
#9
Now, while I whole-heartedly agree with the majority of people who desire a ranged weapon with ranged specials, I'm not understanding why other people are voting for heavy with melee range and melee with melee range.
Its not Hvy Weapons with melee range per say. We haven't reached the sandbox testing, so this may or may not be true...but I do believe for balancing purposes some of our stronger attacks with the equipable hvy weapons most likely still be restricted in range. Hell, if they weren't...even with balance I can just hear the cries of Nerf coming. But this may just be a dead-end, and in reality we may have no restrictions on range. We simply don't know yet.
Hence its a bit harder to really know what the community would want...
BUT if things stay as they are now with range restriction...Id LOVE to have melee specials work with our equipable Hvy Weapons. In fact thats been one of my biggest commando things I want added in the past...a form of a Rifle Butt that can be used to KD or delay a target and can be used with our FT. Makes perfect sense since its a very close range target.
Anyways, many things are changing...as garvin said...the HAR could very well change to an actual rifle...while the FT would still be up close and personal - which I believe should still apply in the CURB (they're short range afterall). But, overall...we ALL want first and foremost an underslung carbine/AR varient...gotta keep up the pressure with that 
!
lividspiral
Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:37 pm
#10
the reason i dropped commando some time back was that it wasn't really anything specific. it wasn't excatly ranged due to the insanity of 15m and even though you need unarmed 4, it doesnt have any unarmed specials or make use of unarmed skills. the skills really need to be more defined and cleaned up. a ranged attack that goes further then 14 or 15m is necessary and if you're going to require unarmed then for gods sakes create a few commando melee attacks (ex the other guy above me's idea of a rifle butt attack of some sort, or perhaps some form of combat / matrial art hand to hand like real commandos know). if it gets fixed i may come back but as of now it's gimped and nerfed and the days where we were able to demolish entire squads in pvp with flaming DOT and flamesingle2 are a thing of the past; right up there with the AH vs. Bestine that used to be so much fun, before buffs or 80% comp or food or vehicles.
Kalano
Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:04 pm
#11
Garvin,
You have exactly what i think commando should be in the game. We are heavy weapon hitters. Lets not turn into a new verson of rifle or TKA, nor any other proffession. Keep are weapons heavy, but make us feared for the amount we can hit for.
We definatly need a heavy carbine weapon, and a meele weapon. Launcher pistol stays, and the HAR needs to be a heavy weapon rifle.
StarNick
Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:17 pm
#12
Yep...Basically what we're trying tofight for....a commando should represent the pre-reqs properly in my Opinion. Allow us to be defined by our weapons, and then further enhance (250 pt commando) through specialization in TKA/Pistoleer/Rifleman/Carbineer.
Biggest strongpoint of a commando...versitility...
Cpl_Fisher
Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:33 pm
#13
StarNick wrote:
Yep...Basically what we're trying tofight for....a commando should represent the pre-reqs properly in my Opinion. Allow us to be defined by our weapons, and then further enhance (250 pt commando) through specialization in TKA/Pistoleer/Rifleman/Carbineer.
Biggest strongpoint of a commando...versitility...
can't wait for this!
anyone have any clue when the Beta invites might POSSIBLY be comming out? I'm moving back to NC, my great uncle just had a stroke and I need to help him get back on his feet, may be out of touch for around 2 weeks around the holidays.
Message Edited by Cpl_Fisher on 12-02-2004 09:35 PM
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