Commando Archive

Talks about weapons requiring pistoleer, whether or not we should make grenades, their range and aoe, and everything else are only minor issues compared to what really needs to be addressed. The real complaint is not so easy to put into one statement so bear with me as I lay it out.

First is the requirements just to become commando. There is only one proffession out there that is harder to get to (bh), and at least their proffesion seems to be working decently. Add on 40k COMBAT experience to qualify for novice. Hello, combat experience, you know, that stuff you get 1/10 as much of as you do the weapon your using. Make part of the requirements a skill (unarmed) that is not only tough but hazardous to progress in, and you wont use ever again after you get your weapons up to a decent level.

Second make mastering your profession so expensive that you can do little else on the side.

Third make the weapons you need for your profession nonexistant, by both making it require a full fledged weaponsmith to make them, and the resources not show up for long if at all. Think about this, you have to wait for a master weaponsmith to make most of your weapons, which means you have to wait for someone to become one. Then, you have to hope they are constantly on, and wandering about every planet looking for the rare materials necessary to make the weapon you need, as opposed to setting up harvesters on the more stable resources for the easier weaponry they have a huge market for.

Fourth make the heavy weapons of limited use before they disappear. If the third item wasnt bad enough to make it almost impossible to get any of the weapons, now they disappear! After a very limited use. 5 uses, 150 uses, 1200 uses, its still limited. Not that I use it any more, but my cdef still works, and it's a cheap piece of plastic compared to a heavy weapon. For the kind of money, and rarity of a heavy weapon I expect them to one shot kill/destroy everything in a fairly large area. Anything else would be a waste of time and money.

Fifth the apparantly low damage that the heavy weapons do. They don't devastate anything, let alone everything in a huge area. They're slow firing, short range, innacurate, and low damage. With just a little knowledge of military tactics and history, you'll realize that one of those is acceptable, two can be handled depending on which ones (slow firing and innacurate can be handled for nuclear weapons, ww2 style artillery). But not, under any circumstances all four. Want to see a heavy weapon or two? Check out the H&K website. I like their GMG, its a belt fed, rapid fire grenade launcher, man portable. This is a heavy weapon. One shot is more than sufficient to take out anyone it hits, and it doesn't take much to get through armor, and yes it has a decent range.

Sixth is their is nothing distinct about commando's. All of our offensive abilities come from other professions, we don't get any specials that are just ours, except for a couple for our heavy weapons, which if we use them makes us just about as effective as someone using an intermediate weapon and skill without the special. We go from having a decent chance to hit in the weapons we were using to get to commando, to missing newbie creatures at optimal range in any stance you want us to try. The only thing that sets us apart is the heavy weapons, and now were told that too be really good we need to use the specials from another profession for them?

And finally you tell us that it's a secondary profession. Maybe you meant that the heavy weapons are supposed to be of limited or secondary usage. Your not supposed to use them in every fight. Uh excuse me, remember the cert points to get them, and the experience requirements to get to the point to spend those cert points? If I ever hope to get to master commando, I'm going to have to use those secondary weapons alot. In most fights, if not all. So if the class depends on secondary use weapons, then it's a secondary class.

So, to sum up,commandos are a secondary class thats one of the hardest to qualify for, hardest to advance in, near impossible to get or keep he equipment you need for, has no distinction, is ineffective at what it is designed for, and leaves you almost no room to do anything else? Any wonder why we're frustrated?

good god man...... i think you said all i have to say......other than this one message to the devs.....

FIX MY COMMANDO

FIX MY COMMANDO

FIX MY COMMANDO

FIX MY COMMANDO

FIX MY COMMANDO

FIX MY COMMANDO

FIX MY COMMANDO

ok.... now that that is outta me...... i got some pretty cool hardware...... wait did i say 'pretty cool hardware' i ment to say i have something that does no dmg but looks awsome on my screen... and if by chance i do hit.... its nothing.... critter might as well stop and laugh at me then proceed to slay me and my 'awsome' flamethrower that i spent 30k cause i had to have the weaponsmith do me a favor.............. AM I MISSING THE BIG PICTURE HERE?

IMO the issue is damage. As you stated regarding heavy weapons. The developer's try to justify the mods/range/rareness of them due to big time damage that sadly is non-existant. We firing rockets, using flamethrowers, throwing grenades, and shooting acid yet we do less dot than a basic laser rifle/carb.

I believe the prof would be justified with all the shortcomings if we were given the damage we should have already. The dev's arguement that the dmg should come from specials is just weak as well. Since the specials suck and degrade our weapons fast. Ok make it worth using them then I'd want to see extremely large damage from the specials if it's eating away my 50k flame thrower or I only have 200 charges in my weapon. I mean insanely high "OMG was that an atomic bomb?" dmg......something to justify the **edit** graphics as well. I'm talking like 4500 dmg from launcher weapons and 500+ dmg from the flamer/acid rifle with a 500+ dot. Consider this headshot3 with a good laser rifle can do up to 2.5-3k atm.......yet we're putting along with a flamer thrower that hits for 300 and does a 150 dot.

You make good points Elken, but I really think we should now wait until the TC patch goes live. Then let us play around with it for a few days, and we'll get a better handle on what else is wrong, or still wrong in the class. If the patch ever comes out, that is.

Elkan, you talk about the number one problem? Seems to me like you are nitpicking at the 6 most UNimportant problems.

Commando is an ELITE profession, therefore it will cost alot of your skillpoints.

The 40k combat xp signifies ELITE, as a requirement.

All your complaints about weapons are due to the fact that they are broken. The number one issue is, in fact, in one of my threads about how the heavy weapons are being treated like melee weapons.

But of course you did do extensive testing on the commando profession and you already know this right?

Once they get fixed, they will do enough damage to warrent limited use, to warrent being rare, etc.

here is an example:

Acid Stream Launcher
100-700 dmg
10 spd
30% wound chance

Right now this weapon has an AR of 0, if this ever gets fixed to AR 3 as it should be, this weapon will now do 200-1400 damage to any unarmored player, or AR 0 monster. 150-1050 to any armored player, or AR 1 monster. The same goes for ALL commando weapons.

here's my take on it all:

#1 issue: get the devs to redefine the commando for us. it's painfully obvious that what we think commandos should be and what they think commandos should be is really not very simmilar.

i'd like to find out EXACTLY what is supposed to be secondary and what isn't. EXACTLY. i'm talking skill by skill, certification by certification.

along those same lines, i'd like to know EXACTLY what situations commandos were designed for. and if they're in game yet, too. are commandos made to take out vehicles and intallations? are those in the game yet? are there special bonuses for the commando weapons like "+300% damage against buildings" or is it all in the armor piercing level? is the AP level above 3? because if it isn't then other weapons would be just as "heavy."

otherwise, the devs have put a lot of weight on the bonus to specials that are on test center now... maybe the specials REALLY DO make all the profession-gating resources, heinous regular damage, abysmal accuracy, and amazing recover times worthwhile.like, maybe they do 10,000 to each HAM pool in a HUGE area of effect. that'd be good. then i guess the devs and players could be more on the same plane of thinking...

The only problem is that why you are begging the devs for this redefinition, the weapons are still broke.

So the day will come when you get your redefinition after another wasted week, but your weapons will still be broke, is that what you want?

Personally I dont care what the devs think I should be doing, because I am going to do whatever I want with my commando

Heh, my number 1 problem?

No Polonium Iron on Lowca = No Flamethrowers

Gimp or not, it's a shame I can't even try one out.

Lodacai

Either way we look at it no matter what server were on the weapons are broke and the dev's are yet to fix this. Is there any way on radiant to get exp other than combat ive been searching the entire planet for a weapon other then the heavy acid rifle which is a nice toy to look at but junk atm.As for the pistol launcher well would be nice to get some heavy weapons exp from it but no go there either pistol exp is no good at this point. Plus the dmg out put on it is a joke compared to my carbine which does up to 1500 with special moves on multiple targets and creates massive wounds. We still have no reasources to make squat on this server and till the class gets fixed we might as well call this Beta IV that we have to pay for. Flamethrowers sound decent if we had the reasources to make them. Those patches they keep putting in to nerf stuff are a waist of our money cause we cant even play the game till they fix our class. How is it that they can nerf stuff and not even have things fixed yet. Sounds to me like there focusing on the wrong problems. Either way im still just spending time gettin vendors set up and surveying hoping to find something of use.

Oh has anyone figured out what the hell the the enhanced explosives charge composition is good for ive been making them by the dozens but have no idea what to use it for.

As we all know the Prima book is junk but it has the commando profession listed as a Hybrid profession if thats true then it shouldnt be secondary but yet primary and we should be the Elite That can take on any.

Obevacca (radiant)

P.s.

the only problem with you doing whatever you please with your commando, is that your weapons may NOT be broken (not broke, that'd mean they were weapons without any money). then you'll be wasting all your breath trying to get the devs to fix something that doesn't need fixing.

here's an analogy:

we think that commandos are spoons. we want commandos to hold liquid.

the devs think commandos are forks. they don't want commandos to hold liquid, they want them to kinda spear things. of course, it may be one of those carving forks, with only 2 prongs, that can only stick into something really big, but if you stick it in too deep, then the knife can't cut off a normal sized chunk, and you all go hungry! ok, that went to far. just look at the first 2 sentences here.

i'd like to know if indeed the devs DO think commandos are forks, before we end up with a spork that isn't good for a damned thing!

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PyWhol wrote:

Pistoleers are fast. Riflemen deal big damage to one target. Commandos do ?

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Commandos do it all. The only drawback is that they dont do everything as good as everyone else. You will never beat a pistoleer in a pistol match, or a rifleman in a long range battle. But, a commando is one of the most versatile classes next to bountyhunter

Damage output per second using Heavy Weapons (flamethrower/acid).

Example:My pistoleer friend (not a master)on Corbantis using a Pistol and FanShot can output 400d/s (damage per second). This doesn't even include the damage done by his bleeds.

Example: A one-hand swordsman on Corbantis using asword and Cho Sun can output 450+d/s.

Example: L2 Flamethrower Commando using our "oh so special" attack /flameSingle1 can output:

Test Initial Hit DOT D/S (over 5sec)

1miss 0 0

1 52 32 about 16

215752aout 40

4

3129 43 about 31

Ok Devs, tell me how exactly you think our special moves "shine"? Commando IS an elite profession, after all, so where is our "elite" damage?

Easy answer: Damage output per second using Heavy Weapons (flamethrower/acid).

Example:My pistoleer friend (not a master)on Corbantis using a Pistol and FanShot can output 400d/s (damage per second). This doesn't even include the damage done by his bleeds.

Example: A one-hand swordsman on Corbantis using asword and Cho Sun can output 450+d/s.

Example: L2 Flamethrower Commando using our "oh so special" attack /flameSingle1 can output:

Test Initial Hit DOT D/S (over 5sec)

1miss 0 0

2 52 32 about 16

315752aout 40

4miss 00

5129 43 about 31

6131 43about 31

7 323107 about 84

Ok Devs, tell me how exactly where you think our special moves "shine"? Commando IS an elite profession, after all, so where is our "elite" damage? Not looking for more than other professions, just equal. Notice any trend here? Those other professions usually do over 10 TIMES the damage we can in the same time period. Perhaps with more testing I could have gotten lucky and hit for 400. So what? My d/s might go to 100 and they are still 5x better than we are. Yes, yes, there is the much awaited /flameSingle2...does it do 10x as much damage than /flameSingle1? If not, then forget it, it's unimportant. A simple marksman with BS2 could easily outdamage a Commando so let's not get into the "but those moves are higher in the skill tree" debate.

How much "looking into" or "'evaluation" does this really take? It was obvious to a 5 year old who was watching me and a friend play. I believe "that one's better, why don't you use that?" was his commant. Perhaps you should hire that kid for your testing staff. He obviously has more of a clue than whoever you have working Commandos.

These tests were solo, so why don't you Devs do some group tests as well? Take a L2 Pistoleer, a L2 Commando (using any real heavy weapon, not a pistol), a L2 Swordsmanand a L2 TKS out for a hunt on Lokand bring along a couple docs. Group them and watch how much XP each of them gets for fights. Notice a trend? I guarantee the Commando is getting screwed and receiving crap for XP compared to the others.

This isn't rocket science. This isn't even hard.