Commando Archive

At any rate, it pisses me off, because your damage becomes a LOT higher when you're at your ideal range. I've tried getting to a range of 0, and it doesn't seem like the damage increases any on the heavy weapons. This isn't a problem with the launcher pistol, but it is a problem with the flamethrower, where anytime you're closer than 40 meters the accuracy meter is -50

I've seen alot of weapons with the 0.0 ideal range. not only do all commando weapons have this (cept for grenades), the bounty hunter light lightning rifle, and the T-21 are this way as well.

I wonder if this is so, because there is no ideal range for the weapon, and NA is not a character response to the code string that sets the parameter.

If you look at most weapons at the range modifiers, you will see that they best modifier is near the "ideal range"

Or it could be they are all defined as Melee weapons. That one bug might cause both symptoms.

yeah but you dont see the "swings at" bug with the launcher pistol.

My inclination at this point is to think that the ideal range values were misentered or forgotten about.

But you do have to wonder about the launcher pistol's extremely high accuracy even with said ideal range 0.0...

Or maybe they just want us to figure it out on our own. flame thrower for example seems most effective around 40m.

Whatever the reason, the range of 0 doesn't seem to have any effect because point blank does less damage then it does if you put some distance between the weaponand target

Even at 0 range the LP NEVER has a postive range modifier. Ive seen it at best get down to 0. This is stupid, because that means we are ALWAYS attacking with less accuracy then our true skill dictates. The devs are actually manually gimping us.

Here is the explanation of the Weapon System in SWG.

Situational Accuracy

The number above the critters head is the situational accuracy (my term.) Ideal range only grants you a "super" bonus (thats the +50 to -50 above the critters head). It effects accuracy. An ideal range of 0 means that you have no super bonus at any range. The "Range Attack Mods" also effect the number above the critters head. A/B/C where A is short range modifier, B is medium range modifier, and C islong range modifier.

So, the effect of not having an ideal range is that you never get the "super bonus" but you get the regular range modifier bonus (if the weapon in question has any).

Other things effect this number, such as moving, aiming, and position.

It could be that no ideal range is a bug, or it could be that it means that the developers never want you to get that "superbonus."

Standard Accuracy

Now, about accuracy OUTSIDE of the number above the critters head, which is the Standard Accuracy (my term).

Lets start here, the reason we hit more with the launcher pistol is because of our novice training, namely the pistol branch. Master Marksman get +70 to Pistol Accuracy. We need to be master marksman to be commandos, so we must start with +70 pistol accuracy.

No commando weapons, with the exception of the Launcher Pistol, use any other skill modifiers. So what does that mean? That means we start at 0 standard accuracy. By comparison, a novice marksman, meaning no skill points right from the tutorial, has +10 to pistol accuracy. So, you were more accurate picking up your CDEF killing the "pirate" than you are as a novice commando using a Flamethrower.

But its not that bad. Master Pistoleers, in thier elite tree get +5 or +10 bonuses to accuracy, we get +15 or +20. Simply put, we quickly go up. In fact, at Master Commando, we have +80 accuracy to our heavy weapons, and a Master Pistoleer (that does not master marksman, or the BH line) has about +95. Very comperable.

Thus, the Launcher Pistol comes it. It uses our prior training, never advances, yet allows us to advance. Its a easy fix to a unique problem in the profession setup.

Summary

The "ideal range" being 0 is not a big problem for the commando. The goal is to take away the "situational modifers" for us. It does not effect standard accuracy, and should not effect whether a weapon is a melee or a ranged (although there may be some other problems making some weapons seem melee).

At most, it effects 1 or 2 shots per fight, but it has the effect of distingusing us from marksman (by not requireing that we carefully line up the perfect shot).

This is also to dispell any rumors that our weapons are "inaccurate." They are not. We just have a steeper learning curve once we hit commando (thus, we have the LP).

Questions?

LP isn't a melee, no. I checked last night... even melee weapons have an ideal range of 1.0

Ok, about ideal range 0.0 weapons:

Right now,the Launcher Pistolspot on in the accuracy department, despite an ideal range of 0. As it stands, because of this ideal range almost NOTHING besides skill mods change how good you are with the Launcher Pistol. This means that at 64 meters versus a FWG5, the launcher pistol is going to hit a TON more, because it both has higher general accuracy and the unchanging level of accuracy.

Unfortunately, the flamer and special weapons are gimped in that they don't have5levels ofaccuracy mods stacking up before you can get their certification.

"Unfortunately, the flamer and special weapons are gimped in that they don't have5levels ofaccuracy mods stacking up before you can get their certification."

Nasock,

Stuff like this is what we do not need. Misinformation. Go look at the skill tree of Pistoleer and the Pistol Branch of Novice Marksman and add up the +accuracy points (do NOT count accuracy while moving because that works differnetly). Now count up the accuracy mods for Flamethrower at each level.

The difference is about 85-95 (unless you figure that all pistoleers will master all Novice Marksmen, then it is 85-105). My numbers may be off slightly, because I am doing it from my head on the road, but you get the point. Nothing aobut our accuracy is gimped.

When you say something like that, you hurt us all. Its like saying that the 3x dmg penalty makes us useless. There is no 3x damage penalty. We cannot get together and make positive changes for our class when people are misinforming each other.

I agree, there is no 3x damage penalty for holding a heavy weapon. Kimas were only hitting me for about 110 with my flame thrower in my hand.. and wearing no armor.

Also, the weapons are being considered as melee weapons. When I use my flame thrower, or cannon, and attack a mob, it says "you shot at..". When I use the same weapons to attack a nest it says, "You swing at..." When I use the flame thrower special, it says "You use your flamethrower.."

So I think, its just a quirk in the text string for combat spam.

When I look at most weapons, that have ideal ranges, such as the DLT20a rifle, which has an ideal range of 45, i notice the range modifiers confirm this, at having the best modifier at the mid range.

Also, when a weapon has a max range, the modifiers x/x/x indicate the max range divided in thirds. So fo a flame thrower that has a max range of 48, 0/-57/0 modifers are for 0-16m / 16-32m /33- 48m which would be confirmed by most people that 40m is an accurate range, and 20m is almost always a miss. These modifiers are for standing still too, so kneel, prone, and running all adjust them in one way or another.

So, I'm thinking like most, that 0.0 means there is no "ideal range" and the range modifiers are buggy, or not totally accurate, or maybe, there is an addition bonus/penalty that other weapons get because they have an ideal range, where as the heavy weapons do not.

THis wound up in the wrong place. Trying again...

If you look at the range modifiers on small arms, they have only three values, but if you watch the "to hit" modifier beside the name of something you target, it changes slowly.

They can't give a list of the weapon's modifier at all ranges. That would be 64 numbers.

Okay, we sell apistol with 10/24/-80 and an ideal range of 8. What is happening is the modifier is increasing (better to hit) until you reach 8m. At that point it starts dropping. If the middle number is for 20 meters and the 10 is for 4, the to hit is ramoing up from 0m to 8m, and happens to be 10 at 4m. We don't actually know what the midifier is at 8, we only know it increases. It comes down slowly and is 24 at 20m. It keeps falling, probably drastically, beyond 20 m, until it's -80 at whatever the long range position is.

Now, look at the weird modifier for the Flamethrower. Something like 0/-27/0. The actual number doesn't matter. What matters is that, unlike small arms, the number is decreasing from range 4 to 20, and turns around to increase before hitting the long range modifier. The curve is inverted! So, there is no ideal range to report, since there is no "peak of the mountain" point.

It's entirely possible that ideal range is nothing more than a way to tell you, "Your best chance to hit is at this range."

My best hits with the Launcher Pistol have been from 60m away....I seem to recall getting a +50 rng modifier...it makes sense really...it fires rockets afterall...

The range mods are all screwed up for HW weapons and need serious addressing. I think that the real range mods are in the game, unfortunately they are not listed on the weapons accurately...that is the problem of course...we have no way of knowing where we are supposed to be to do our most damage.

Hope this helps

Ishaac

Novice Commando (1 month and counting)