Commando Archive
Thread: Crazy Idea re: Rocket Launchers
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Daker-Naritus
Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:54 am
#1
I had a brainstorm this morning.....
We have been talking a lot lately about the possibilities of combining some of our trees (Flamer and HAR), and revamping Rocket Launchers (and by this I mean all weapons in the heavy weapons line) to be reloadable so they are cheaper and easier to slice.
We have been asking for all of our heavy weapons to be fixed, status effects to be added, and other such things to make our consumable viable.
However, the thought has occurred to me for some time that we have 4 different kinds of grenades and4 different heavy weapons, as well as the flamer, HAR, and Launcher pistol. Ladies and gentlemen, that is ELEVEN different weapons. Making it so that each one of these weapons has some utility will be impossible, short of giving us every damage type and status effect in the game and having significant overlap between weapons.
It is my personal belief that no class (even my beloved commando) should have such a thing... If every class can do everything, what is the point of having classes?
However, I also really like both grenades and rocket launchers, as I think both are very commandoey.
So, I hade a crazy idea this morning regarding Heavy Weapons, Reloadability, and Grenades... What if we made the following changes to the Heavy Weapons and Tactics Trees?
Field Tactics I - IV:
This remains a grenade tree. We would get 4 new types of grenades, with certs spread throughout the trees:
(1) Blast grenades: Do a reasonable amount of AOE blast damage; no status effects.
(2) Electrostatic grenades: Do a reasonable amount of AOE electricy damage; no status effects. (NOTE: We NEED electricity damage to preserve our roleas players in placeslike the DWB)
(3) Stun grenades: Do an amount of AOE stun damage about 75% of the above grenades; AOE knockdown effect.
(4) Flash (confusion) grenades: Do an amount of AOE blast or energy damage 50% to 75% of blast and electrostatic grenades; AOE stun, dizzy, and blind status effects; each status effect is not automatic, but has a 25% to 50% chance of sticking based on the skill level of the commando.
Each of these grenades would have a 30m maximum range, a 5m from target AOE range, a 1.5 to 2 second delay between throws, and AP0.
Heavy Weapons I-IV:
Eliminate the Rocket Launcher and other heavy weapons we have now and replace them with a Grenade Launcher.
The Grenade Launcher itself would be an empty tube, into which you can load grenades to change the properties, and the heavy weapons tree would give (1) speed, (2) accuracy, and (3) damage modifiers for use with the Launcher.
The basic effects the Grenade Launcher would have on each grenade shot would be as follows:
(1) Ideal range changedto 50m to 60m, pretty much misses from any closer.
(2) AOE range increased from 5m from target to 15m.
(3) Damage of the grenade ranges between 2 and3 times the damage a standard grenade would do.
(4) Delay increased significantly, probably more like 4 to 5 seconds between shots.
(5) Increase the AP from AP0 to AP3.
Result:
The result is basically the same as our setup right now, without all the overlap and complications. We would have 4 Heavy Weapons that all have a good, strong role in combat, with 2 different ways to deliver those weapons.
Also, in some ways this idea would significantly curb 1-tree dabbling, as (1) anyone with just the grenade tree would be able to use all 4 types of grenades, but would only be able to use the lower power, short range versions; and (2) anyone with just the launcher tree would be skilled in using the launcher at range, but would be limited to only the grenade cert that is granted at novice commando (probably the blast grenade). You would have to get both trees to be highly skilled at using heavy weapons.
I guess it could also have the unintended effect of fixing our skill attachments, as we would have only one heavy weapon again...
What do you think?
Edit: I decided the AOE ranges were a little large...dropped them to 5m and 15m
Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 08-27-2004 11:11 AM
Hellshot
Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:39 am
#2
Dude, you so stole my grenade launcher idea 
. I think those are good thoughts in general. It will be interesting to see what the devs are thinking, assuming the friday feature deals with the Combat balance.
. I think those are good thoughts in general. It will be interesting to see what the devs are thinking, assuming the friday feature deals with the Combat balance.
Daker-Naritus
Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:13 am
#4
I did?
I'll have to chalk this one up to great minds think alike... 
I didn't remember that there has been a proposal like this before...
I didn't remember that there has been a proposal like this before...Has Garvin submitted to to the devs yet?
Maybe we should work together on a joint proposal for the devs to consider while working on the combat balance....
RazerWolf
Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:28 am
#5
Something that I considered recently but haven't written up yet:
One simple way to make Commandos more useful would be to do the following:
Reduce the specific protection on some armour types to have low resistance / vulnerability on a greater number of damage types.
If there were a lesser range of commonly (and highly) resisted damage types, Commandos would be the only class who from the outset have the tools to attack an enemy's weakness. Like the Black Mage in certain games, who has elemental attacks which a wise player can use to hit the enemy with the element which hurts it most, Commandos should be able to, once the vulnerability is identified, hit a target in it's weak spot. Other classes should be able to do this to a degree, utilising three or four damage types (which isn't exactly the case now, I know), but Commando and its six (count 'em) main damage types could, and should, be the "tactical" member of the group.
Hm, here's a motto that the Commando should have:
Versatility, Flexibility, Diversity.
One simple way to make Commandos more useful would be to do the following:
Reduce the specific protection on some armour types to have low resistance / vulnerability on a greater number of damage types.
If there were a lesser range of commonly (and highly) resisted damage types, Commandos would be the only class who from the outset have the tools to attack an enemy's weakness. Like the Black Mage in certain games, who has elemental attacks which a wise player can use to hit the enemy with the element which hurts it most, Commandos should be able to, once the vulnerability is identified, hit a target in it's weak spot. Other classes should be able to do this to a degree, utilising three or four damage types (which isn't exactly the case now, I know), but Commando and its six (count 'em) main damage types could, and should, be the "tactical" member of the group.
Hm, here's a motto that the Commando should have:
Versatility, Flexibility, Diversity.
StarNick
Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:47 am
#6
Yeah it was (the single reloadable HW weapon)also in that revamp post that TH liked by Razer...or was it Raptor? I always get both of your names mixed up for some reason....
But i like this...as it also simplifies our gernades....organization as well as simplicity is always a good way to do things...
StarNick
Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:23 pm
#7
I also think that each weapon would have limited, specific utility (example: the flash grenades would not work on every hit) giving us a reason to strategize how we are going to run the battle.
Yes...strategy....especially as KD effects have a 30 second timer, and dont work all the time...certian effects should not happen on every blast, and should have a chance to miss (their effect that is, the gernades should be 100% accuracy like the bomb droids...while the long range gernades should have a chance to miss...why? Because at short range with a gernade, shrapnel will hit....at long range, you can accidently miss totally and not even get within shrapnel range [similiar to how beyond 17 m, bomb droids are not 100% hit])
nbd9k
Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:50 pm
#8
the problem is, the whole idea doesnt work if we cant change between various rounds fast enough. maybe if there was some way to create a "combat load". sort of like filling a magazine with tracers. before you go into combat, you preload your rounds in a perticular order, as is your own preference. in combat, you can fire those rounds off quickly, or if you decide to fire a different round, you take a little extra time to pull it out and direct-load it.
whacha think?
-harv
Daker-Naritus
Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:25 pm
#9
nbd9k wrote:
the problem is, the whole idea doesnt work if we cant change between various rounds fast enough. maybe if there was some way to create a "combat load". sort of like filling a magazine with tracers. before you go into combat, you preload your rounds in a perticular order, as is your own preference. in combat, you can fire those rounds off quickly, or if you decide to fire a different round, you take a little extra time to pull it out and direct-load it.
whacha think?
-harv
I thought of this problem...
My idea was that rocket launchers already have to be hotkeyed... Why can't a commando who was worried about quick switched just buy 2 tubes, load both with different rounds, andthen click on the hotkey/tube with the right kind of ammo in it.
I own 2 flamers right now (one speed sliced and one damage sliced, 2 rocket launchers (same deal). I see this as the same kind of issue.
Daker-Naritus
Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:26 am
#10
StarNick wrote:
Yeah it was (the single reloadable HW weapon)also in that revamp post that TH liked by Razer...or was it Raptor? I always get both of your names mixed up for some reason....
But i like this...as it also simplifies our gernades....organization as well as simplicity is always a good way to do things...
Yeah...that was really the key point I was getting at. I think all of us think a single re-loadable launcher would be perfect, I just thought that even if that happens, we will STILL have launcher ammo and grenades that will probably have overlapping/redundant effects.
My crazy thought was, lets just combine those two weapons into a 2-tree weapon that has a lot of versatility: Short range grenades and a separate launcher to convert them into long range ones.
My thought was also that we really only need 3-4 damage types and I hate redundant weapon effects. This would provide us with:
Heat, Acid, Blast, Stun, Electricity, and maybe energy Damage types
Knockdown, dizzy, stun, blind, and our flame dot.
I think that pretty much rounds out all the stuff we need (aside from AP on the HAR, and pistol mods/specials), and will make commando a complete profession without a bunch of overlapping, superfluous crap.
I also think that each weapon would have limited, specific utility (example: the flash grenades would not work on every hit) giving us a reason to strategize how we are going to run the battle.
jRaylianholy
Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:12 am
#11
i think blast damage should cause a either a knockdown, dizzy or stun affect. or if hit with a rocket launcher all 3 cause come one lets face it if you were to get hit with a rocket launcher wouldnt you feel a dizzy and fall down and be a little stunned?
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