Commando Archive
Thread: COMMANDO: State of the Profession Address
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Holgerjr
Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:16 am
#1
I would first like to say that much respect goes to Ivoni for his detailed and insightful information on Commando.
Now lets look at the Commando.
Defintion of a Commando from the planet Earth
"a member of a military unit trained as shock troops for hit-and-run raids"
The term Commando can refer to a single individual, a wholebattalion or a style of military operation associated with them. Typically, Commandos are selected individuals who meet exacting physical and intellectual requirements, formed into small specialist military assault units.
Commandos are normally trained for assault by land, sea or air and most are parachute qualified. Training also includes unarmed combat, infiltration, patrol, reconnaissance, jungle, desert, arctic, and mountain terrains with an emphasis on both teamwork and self reliance. Individuals specialise in various aspects such as explosives and communications and Commando hallmarks are speed, mobility and stealth. Many operations are conducted at night and Commandos are not intended to remain continuously in the line for long periods.
This term originated in South Africa
Kommando - origin Boer War, South Africa c. 1900 - Boer independent mounted infantry batallion, supported by sympathetic population
In World War II, Winston Churchill, termed "Commando" to be used with his special forces teams that did hit and run attacks to prepare the D-Day invasion. Since then the commando role has been filled by special forces unit across the globe.
In Star Wars Galaxies, the definition is:
"Commando: A hardened soldier trained to use and craft heavy weapons"
From this background we can now look at the commando as it exists in the game.
1) The manual states that commandos "craft" heavy weapons. This as we know is not the case. It would seem that a commando should be able to make/assemble explosives. However, this is not a real issue, the real issue being the complex nature of assembly required for "heavy weapons". This I feel is an issue that needs to be resolved in the weaponsmiths arena, with some attention paid to the commando need. In general the heavy weapons are too inaccurate, too expensive, and too slow. More on this later.
2) Lets start with the skills learned as a Master Marksman and how they apply, do not apply in the game.
a)
Holgerjr
Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:37 am
#2
I would first like to say that much respect goes to Ivoni for his detailed and insightful information on Commando.
Now lets look at the Commando.
Defintion of a Commando from the planet Earth
"a member of a military unit trained as shock troops for hit-and-run raids"
The term Commando can refer to a single individual, a wholebattalion or a style of military operation associated with them. Typically, Commandos are selected individuals who meet exacting physical and intellectual requirements, formed into small specialist military assault units.
Commandos are normally trained for assault by land, sea or air and most are parachute qualified. Training also includes unarmed combat, infiltration, patrol, reconnaissance, jungle, desert, arctic, and mountain terrains with an emphasis on both teamwork and self reliance. Individuals specialise in various aspects such as explosives and communications and Commando hallmarks are speed, mobility and stealth. Many operations are conducted at night and Commandos are not intended to remain continuously in the line for long periods.
This term originated in South Africa
Kommando - origin Boer War, South Africa c. 1900 - Boer independent mounted infantry batallion, supported by sympathetic population
In World War II, Winston Churchill, termed "Commando" to be used with his special forces teams that did hit and run attacks to prepare the D-Day invasion. Since then the commando role has been filled by special forces unit across the globe.
In Star Wars Galaxies, the definition is:
"Commando: A hardened soldier trained to use and craft heavy weapons"
From this background we can now look at the commando as it exists in the game.
1) The manual states that commandos "craft" heavy weapons. This as we know is not the case. It would seem that a commando should be able to make/assemble explosives. However, this is not a real issue, the real issue being the complex nature of assembly required for "heavy weapons". This I feel is an issue that needs to be resolved in the weaponsmiths arena, with some attention paid to the commando need. In general the heavy weapons are too inaccurate, too expensive, and too slow. More on this later.
2) Lets start with the skills learned as a Master Marksman and how they apply, do not apply in the game.
a)Pistol skills transfer over to a degree for use with the Launcher Pistol. This is fine and dandy, but pistol skills transfer over for the Bounty Hunter as well, and the BH can increase his ability with the pistol. As many others have advocated, it would be nice to have the ability to increase the skill with the launcher pistol as you progress in the commando tree.
b) Carbine. Nothing at all in commando. This is extremely odd to me. Currently, on Earth, every commando must be extremely profient in some sort of carbine. Being a master of weapons, the commando should be afforded some sort of advancement in this weapon.
c) Rifle. Nothing at all in commando. Ok I agree that rifles are generally set aside for use by the Sniper.
d) Unarmed. Again nothing. Commandos, on Earth, are trained extensively in the martial arts. Silent killing is effected by the use of a knife or the hand. This definitely needs to be addressd in some fashion. Again adding some type of enhanced skill training would address this issue.
Now having briefly looked at the Commando as defined by SWG, and what it would seem to include, I think I have an idea of what the Commando actually is. The SWG commando resembles the role of combat engineer more closely, than the role of commando. The SWG commando especially resembles the role and attribures of the Sturm Pioniere. Sturm Pioniere were equiped with flamethrowers, land mines, grenades, antitank mobile mines, panzerfaust (rocket launcher), and the MP38 or MP40 machine pistol (sub machine gun). Sound familiar. These troops were used to take fortifications, fixed gun positions, and light armored vehicles. The accomplishment of these tasks involved substantial closed combat, demolition, and use of longer range heavy weapons.
Ok so this is the idea that SWG had for commando? In this role, the commandoseems to have a function, as commandos have the best chance at taking out a AT ST, or a turret. Possibly, useful in taking out large animals. In PvP combat we all should know by now, that commandos are either punching bags, brain donors (as they spill out onto the ground), or bouncing babies (consistently knocked down). In short a Master Commando can be taken down by all of the ranged combat elite professions with ease. Melee and unarmed elite can also drop us without disheveling their finely coifed hair. Further, in battle with AT ST and Turrets, we also have no significant advantage. Now I will admit I can take down a pik pretty quick, with a flamethrower, but an elephant gun can drop an elephant in one shot as well.
So working on the supposition that commandos are meant to be heavy support troops. Lets look at our weapons and what we can do with them.
Flamethrower. Ok everyone seems to like these best. I believe because they are so much faster than the acid rifle. However they are still slow. Over the last week my Bounty Hunter compatriot, and I monitored the combat log to note damage and rate of fire. The Bounty Hunters electricity damage heavy weapon beats the flamethrower in all catagories.
a) Speed. You can slice a flamethrower speed as low as 3.something. In our test I used a 3.8 speed flamethrower (FT) and he used a 3.5 speed light lightning cannon (LLC). On average the FT hit for 950 points of damage, while the LLC hit for 1150. In this test, on average he shot3 times for every 2 shots by me. Thus if I shot2 time and did1900 dmg, he shot3 times and did 3450 dmg. BH LLC wins in this contest with more speed and dmg.
b) Damage. Slice a FT to max dmg 1100 or there abouts. Slice LLC to max dmg 800+. Same simulation. Now the LLC gets2 shots to my 1. My average dmg is now 1175 and his avg dmg is now 1225. So now I do 1175 and he does 2450. BHs LLC again wins this contest.
c) Specials. Compare speed of shots and damage of shots. With the dmg sliced FT I get from 2000-5000 dmg per top tier special. BH with dmg sliced LLC, gets 2000-4500 dmg per top tier special. In addition we are again looking at a 2 to 3 shot ratio in favor of the Bounty Hunter.
SUMMARY. The bounty hunters heavy weapon is faster, does more damage, can be used from a greater distance, and has a better fire rate.
Acid Rifle. Ok this rifle is only used when the target has high heat resists (rancor anyone). Now people bad mouth this gun a lot, and rightfully so. Its speed is atrocious. In recent combat against a enraged rancor, here are some stats.
BH using scatter pistol, averaged dmg of 250-300. Commando using acid single 2, average damage 3500. However the BH shot9-11 times for every one time the commando shot. That meansthe BHcontributes roughly the same damage in that period of time.
So again the BH wins out, as the acid rifle shows no advantage to the Scatter Pistol in either speed or dmg over time.
Launcher Pistol. These are nice, even if they make it impossible to see what is going on. Because of the ability to use pistol skills learned in Master Marksman, these weapons can be effective. In general, I have no complants with this gun at all. Properly sliced and poweruped this gun gets the best speed in the game. I have a krayte enhanced version, with 32 % speed powerup, and speed slice, and am proud to have a speed of 0.6. However, this does not seem to translate over into combat. As the 2.4 speed scatter pistols gets roughly the same number of shots in the combat log. In general, with a 1.3 spd launcher and a 2.3 speed scatter pistol, damages are close, but for a full point of speed difference I only get 10 shots to his 8. Of course this relates to other skill, but my Bounty Hunter research companion, has not other pistol skills beyond those of marksman.
HEAVY WEAPONS.
Energy HVY WPN. These are in fact useful. I have used a particle beam to successfully knockout a squad of 5 stormtroopers by myself. With the help of a lot of stims, and running away. They are the most powerful energy weapon in the game, and you can use them on Nightsisters with good effect as well.
Blast HVY WPN (Rocket Launchers). Complete and utter crap. Way to slow, miss 63% of the time, and just plain suck.
Acid HVY WPN. Very useful in taking down rancors. However, again inaccuracy and slowness makes the Scatter Pistol the ideal acid based weapon. Which should not be the case.
Electricity HVY WPN. Useful against electricity resist creatures. However, speed and inaccuracy of this wpn make the LLC of the BH still the ideal electricity dmg weapon in the game. Again this should not be the case.
GRENADES
1) You can never get them as they are too hard and expensive to make.
2) They are inaccurate and never do radius dmg (except to the thrower if he/she is in the radius).
3) TOO SLOW. With a 10 speed imperial detonator, you are dead before you can throw it.
In summation, the only weapons of use for the commando are the launcher pistol, the particle beam cannon, and the flamethrower. Which seems pretty good, as carbine, rifle, and pistol specialists only get access to one new weapon.
However the major issue to consider in design of the commando is the skill points it takes to become one.
To become a Master Teras Kasi Artist, Rifleman. Carbineer, Pistoleer, Swordsman, Pikeman, etc... You need only use 92 skill points. Which means you can get 2 of these and still have points remaining. Experience shows me that a Master Rifleman/TKA is in fact the uber character in the game.
This combination can destroy Bounty Hunters and Commandos with ease.
Bounty Hunters must spend 217 of their available skill points to reach master, and a master TKA having spent only 92 can use the BH for a floor rag.
Commandos must spend169 skill points to reach master, and the commando is even less of a challenge than the BH.
It would seem that with all the skill points used to become a Commando, that a commando should be able to best a single master of the elite professions. If I can spend 92 points and beat everyone, what is the point of spending all the time and points to be a BH or Commando?
I would appreciate person comments on ways to improve the Commando profession.
My ideas are as follow:
1) Increase the speed and accuracy of the weapons available to the commando.
2) Lower damage to be equal to that of the LLC, but let us have the same speed as the LLC.
3) Allow some sort of skill advancement to use the skills we learned in unarmed and marksman. In smuggler and bounty hunter (other hybrid professions) you use most of the skills you learned from the prerequisites.
4) Make grenades easier to craft. On the planet Earth, grenades are simpler to produce than firearms.
Thank you for your time, if you took some to read this, and to all commandos out there please keep bugging the devs about this profession, because it needs help.
CHEERS
thepunisher286
Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:21 am
#3
- Combine FT and AcidRifle trees
- With the open spot for a new tree, add a pistol tree ( for the better use of a Launcher Pistol )
- Combine Feild tactics and Heavy weapons tree, both those trees are the use of expendible weapons.
- Give us some sort of main weapon. Just some sort of strong carbine/rifle blaster. Or maybe the Imperial Heavy repeater. Flamethrower is utter crap unless you have a 3.1, even then you need to be 16m close to be hit by flamesingle 2 that never hits in pvp. The gun is uber on paper, but crap in reality.
- Increase accuracy on all weapons considerably. Thecurrent accuracy of a commando is very comparable to a marksman -
In all honesty, Commando NEEDS a revamp - The current Commando trees/skills weer poorly plan, and its clear that no one seem to put any attention to the serious flaws we have. Not only that but the devs CHOOSE to ignore us as they feel the need to bring in all this crap to fight against the flame thrower and to take away DOT stack.
Does that defeat the porpose of using a flamethrower? We use it because its hard to defend against it when your within 16m ( lets not forget the high % of missing within this range ) and flame is very dificult to survive, unless you have buffs then flame is utterly useless. Think of this:
You attack on "so and so" with FT on Flamesingle2 for 3,735DMG , minus , 75% pvp dmg reduction, minus the % of the armor they wear , minus flameout that prevents 90% of dmg on the first 5 shots or 3 shots , THEN the fire ext to take away the flame dot. These numbers might be a little off, but you get the idea. In the end, Commandos are getting nailed up the...
/gg devs - thanks for wasting my time, show me the way to cancel my account.
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