Commando Archive

Thread: Master Commando PvP Tactics post-DoT-nerf? Aside from surrendering all Commando :(

izdefiler
Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:21 pm
#1


I'm really thinking hard about this one. My current template is Master Commando/0040 Pistoleer/0400 Fencer/2003 TKA. It's pretty unconventional, but it works decent right now. I'm no PvP God - I simply hold my own in most situations. If I get lucky enough to land 2 or 3 DoTs on a single target, then I win. If I'm fighting a /warcry2 possessing defensive template that is CoB'd - I'm dead as a doornail most of the time, sometimes I fail to land even a single shot...even if I'm still standing after a full minute.The problem with getting reduced to 1 DoT is that won't be sufficient to kill anyone with buffs (90% of the players I face have Doctor enhanced stats, not to mention spice and food), which means we have to survive long enough for the application of another DoT. That's ridiculous. Combine this with 80% resist to heat Composite armor readily available, & I don't see what we will be able to do.


I'm thinking get the initial DoT on, then run around until that DoT wears off and apply it again. How much fun is that going to be? And how do you stay alive long enough to apply a second DoT against some of those guys out there? How do we fight a buffed & armored CM? We burn them with one DoT, they keep up with heals very easily with just one DoT.. don't even need to heal with decent buffs it won't incap...all the while they get to pick what HAM pool to target and throw several DoTs on to it, including the disease which is longer duration than Fire and does just as much wound dmg. Not to mention the fact they can hit me from 64m (that's being generous, still some 80m poisons out there), while I have to get within 16m to miss a couple times. They don't have to worry about missing. I really don't understand why we're getting the shaft here.


We are currently overpowered in PvE, CM is just as overpowered in PvP. Nothing swings a PvP battle more than adding a CM to either side. Why can't adding a BH or Commando be just as much of a swing? BH costs more skillpoints and Commandothe same. Give both MBH & Master Commando+75 resistvs Poison & Disease (I'm serious, but I know the idea will be scoffed at) .. add an Acid Burn DoT to the Heavy Acid Rifle (entire tree for useless weapon)that dmg ticks on health, we've already got the specials in place to tag them on, & it'sstackable with aFTFire DoT & causes massive constitution wounds.


That would get us started on the path to competitiveness. A BH must face people with 120 def vs KD/Dizzy and 150 ranged defenses.. combined with armor that blocks 80% of their offense.... why doesn't a CM have to face any templates that resist their offense? Currently this is only available through skill enhancing attachments or modded loot that are very rare and very hard to acquire in enough quantities to make a difference. Not to mention with decay they don't last.


It seems every post I've made lately regarding our situation ends up pointing to the CM, & why they are being left alone when they are already the PvP DoT masters. I'm all for making Commandos rely less on DoTs, but give us other options before taking them away for god's sake. I apologize for this basically being a huge whine, but if the Commando is taking a nerf while the two most dominant professions (TK & CM) are unaffected... something is wrong. The same goes for the Carbineers & Pikemen... lol since when do they need a nerf. None of this makes any sense at all. Also, could someone point out where this DoT stacking was discussed before they pushed it to TC, and to our correspondent.. I know it's not easy to get their attention but really how could this happen? Please give them this idea for the DoT stack nerf:

FlameSingle1 will not stack with Flamesingle2.
FlameCone1 will not stack with FlameCone2.
FlameCone1(or)2 will stack with FlameSingle1(or2).

Actionshot1 will not stack with Actionshot2
Polearmactionhit1 will not stack with Polearmactionhit2
Actionshot1(or)2 will stack with Polearmactionhit1(or)2

These are just examples. Basically, the sequentialDoTs (the ones that are exactly the same just more damaging/higher ticks) don't stack with each other; that's instead of basing it on one DoT type per pool per target. Allowing me to put 2 Flame DoTs on a single target is not overpowered, it would cut us in half with our DoT power and reduce our currently devastating PvE skills. In PvP it would allow us to attempt to stick 2 DoTs on that buffed opponent and have a chance at victory.


Some of you may have seen me post almost the same thing on different boards and multiple times, sorry! I'm not going to shut up until we get an acknowledgement that this nerf cripples our profession, and an alternative solution can be developed. We don't expect to be gods, we just want to compete with those that do.



Defiler { VIPER }
KnightHawk420
Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:04 pm
#2

You know as a commando.. I almost never relied on a DOT to kill my enemy. I relied simply on pure damage.



Cheylin Mena - R.I.P.
Menon Mena - R.I.P.
Hunglo Bavmador - R.I.P.
MajesticJester
Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:12 pm
#3

dont a command and combat medic use the same amount of skill points


commando:


master marksman - 1 line from brawler - master commando


combat medic


master medic - 1 line from marksman - master combat medic


nightwolf180
Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:18 pm
#4






MajesticJester wrote:

dont a command and combat medic use the same amount of skill points


commando:


master marksman - 1 line from brawler - master commando


combat medic


master medic - 1 line from marksman - master combat medic








Commando is 100% combat related pre-reqs. Combat medic is not.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You guys keep reading the post written by the long winded guy you think is an idiot.

The long winded idiot is going to play the game now. Enjoy.

Alex Kel'Jaro: Master Marksman Master Pistoleer Master Commando (working on it)
Raptor2k1
Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:23 pm
#5

^ What he said.


CM Prerequisites are 4/5 Medical and 1/5 Combat.


Commando prerequisitesare 5/5 Combat.







Kyeran Halkyon

Master Gunfighter and Demolitionist of the Old Republic Navy
SWG Commando Forum


nightwolf180
Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:25 pm
#6

Anyway back to tactics. I've been jacking up my pistol abilities for my LP with the intention of useing the LP for PVP (which means people will scream about nerfing the lag pistol).



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You guys keep reading the post written by the long winded guy you think is an idiot.

The long winded idiot is going to play the game now. Enjoy.

Alex Kel'Jaro: Master Marksman Master Pistoleer Master Commando (working on it)
Raptor2k1
Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:34 pm
#7

Yeah, me too. I got pistoleer as my holocron profession, so I think I'm eventually going to master that, drop everything but flame IV (or maybe even down to novice, depending on the situation) and take up WS as a counterpart until patch 7.


Anyways, the LP is supposed to be extremely effective against anything vulnerable to blast, as long as you have some pistoleer skills... And I hate to think of the lag that spamming fanshot with it woulf cause.


Carbineer might be a good companion to take too, if only for charge-shot and being able to couple it with the FT.


Rifleman commando would be good too, since you'd have a way to deal with them at any range.



The fact of the matter is though, for PvP after this patch, we'll probably be most effective as a support profession for a while.


My recomandation would be to make sure you're always grouped, and that you have others to draw enemy fire while you fire DoT them to slowly eat away at their HAM's. Then I'd suggest pulling back a ways and using either the HPBC or RL on them as seen fit, making sure to evade enemy notice.




Kyeran Halkyon

Master Gunfighter and Demolitionist of the Old Republic Navy
SWG Commando Forum


izdefiler
Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:08 pm
#8






KnightHawk420 wrote:
You know as a commando.. I almost never relied on a DOT to kill my enemy. I relied simply on pure damage.







That works great against people with no buffs or armor, most of the time. That's a rarity on my server when facing experienced PvPers... this nerf will only affect me when facingdoctor enhanced& armored opponents. Without buffs & armor, one FT DoT application is all it will take.


I don't know how long ago you were a Commando, right now on my server there is plenty of 80% to Heat Composite available. Combine that with our inaccuracy and I have no idea how anyone could rely on "pure damage" within our profession.


Thanks for responding.




Defiler { VIPER }
izdefiler
Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:21 pm
#9






MajesticJester wrote:

dont a command and combat medic use the same amount of skill points


commando:


master marksman - 1 line from brawler - master commando


combat medic


master medic - 1 line from marksman - master combat medic








In my post:


"BH costs more skillpoints and Commandothe same."


That part of my post means BH costs more skillpoints than CM and Commando costs the same. Sorry if it confused you, and another player had a great point in saying the vast majority of a CM's skillpoints are spent in medical, not combat skills. We are 100% Combat and will have virtually no chance against a CM, unless we are Group TEFers (which I am not). Their poison & disease stacks tick much faster than a single Fire DoT, about the same as maybeour stacked 4 DoTs. You have to take into account it currently would take at minimum around 30 seconds for the typical Commando to land 4 DoTs - that's assuming the CM is standing still, the battle starts at point blank,and the Commando doesn't miss. In most situations the CM will land their DoTs from at least 64m awayand burst, leaving the Commando firing pea shots at a distance all the while their lives ticking away.


I would have never complained about CM if we weren't getting hit the hardest by this. I am not a typical whiner but this is the only route I have. The CM has virtually no limitations on their offense, with that kind of power they are wielding I think they should. They can do full self heals, area heals on their groups, heal their group's minds, and wipe out entire groups singlehandedly. If a Commando want's to land a DoT, they have to get in a melee character's "dangerous" range, they have to worry about missing, and they can be kited. I'm just not seeing the logic in nerfing us instead of the CM. We are making them even more powerful, that is not what this game needed.



Defiler { VIPER }
Raptor2k1
Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:20 pm
#10

Did anyone else notice that while bleeds and fire are getting significantly reduced, poisons and diseases are loosing no power this patch?



Kyeran Halkyon

Master Gunfighter and Demolitionist of the Old Republic Navy
SWG Commando Forum


izdefiler
Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:52 pm
#11

Actually I'm just starting to realize there is more to this than the DoT nerf in reading other posts. The actual ticking on bleeds and fires are getting nerfed too? And CMs left alone? That is complete horse**edit**! There is no other word for it!



Defiler { VIPER }
Deemer
Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:16 pm
#12

Why does everyone think BH's are so bad? We were in a fight, 5 imperials vs about 8 rebels (no pets, aint that a change?) the rebel side had a CM and the imperial side had a BH, before CM could do anything it was breakdancing (fireknockdown + dizzy) with torsoshot DoT, took mere seconds to take it out.


-Lexxus


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