Commando Archive
Thread: A look at our Current Top 5 regarding the CU Changes...
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garvin
Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:39 am
#1
I thought it might be interesting to look at our Current Top 5 now that we know, what we know, about the Combat Upgrade (since I've been hinting for awhile that many of our Top 5 would be addressed via the CU)...I apologize to Starnick if he was considering starting a thread like this one, but I've been excited to start this thread since last August...once the CU is finished, this is also a thread we'll want to revisit as we start gathering together a NEW Top 5 thread...
Issue 1) Damage Per Second: Currently Commandos are out-damaged when it comes to DPS by various other professions. This stems mainly from the speed of our weapons combined with our accuracy.
This will have to be something that we test when the elite professions are unlocked BUT if you compare Speed and Accuracy mods, we are on a similar level to the other professions, and the base DPS levels (not including the effect various specials will have) of our various weapons are on par with other professions. DPS wise things are looking much brighter for us.
Issue 2) Heavy Acid Rifle: The HAR is in desperate need of a total revamp or replacement. The HAR is weaker then FT, has no DoT, no AP, and suffers same restrictions as the FT yet costs more XP to grind the Acid Tree and has greater HAM costs on its specials.
The Devs have added apparently a status effect to the HAR (blindness I believe) as well as made it's range 65m (the FT is 25m). So, while it's weaker then the FT, it can no longer be considered a "clone" of the FT. AP has been removed from the game as well, so that is no longer an issue.
Issue 3) Lack of Melee Defense: Commandos have the highest Combat related pre-req cost of all profession in game which includes both Melee and Ranged pre-reqs, yet comparatively, it has one of the lowest levels of defenses (based on cost comparison to Master Level). Commandos are also the only Ranged profession that has ALL of it's specials restricted to Melee range of 16m which forces Commandos to take more Melee damage in fights then other Ranged professions that have higher Melee Defenses.
Our Defenses have been increased to be on par with other ranged professions (and in some cases, more then other professions). We also gain a Knockdown Counter at both Novice Marksman and Brawler (to bad it doesn't compound the effect or somehow lower the cost).
Issue 4) Grenades: Currently Grenades damage the user when caught in it's blast radius. Grenades also have a higher then normal HAM cost when compared to other weapons/specials of similar damage/range capabilities. Other Profession thrown/detonated weapons introduced in game come with lower or no HAM cost and specifically DO NOT damage the user when caught in the blast radius. This includes Combat Medic thrown items and Bounty Hunter/Smuggler Bomb Droids. Both of the previously mentioned items also have greater ranges and greater blast areas. It has been confirmed that occasionally the "ideal" range of a grenade is within the blast radius which translates into "if you want to best use your grenade, you HAVE TO take the same damage yourself PLUS deal with the high HAM cost (this is why they are called Suicide Bombs).
According to our tests so far on TC, Grenades no longer damage the user or anyone in the users group. Also the stack size is to be raised (but won't be staying at 500...so don't get your hopes up there). Statis effects have also been added to our grenades. This goes above and beyond our full expectations for grenade changes via the CU.
Issue 5) Consumable Heavy Weapons: Currently their lootable mods are still non-functional. They are often out-damaged due to poor speed and very poor accuracy. They are hard to find due to crafting difficulty. They put the Commando in a very vunerable position when they must stop motion to use them. And they are not worth the price when you balance cost vs. accuracy (not enough shots connect to make them worth the average cost).
What Consumable Heavy Weapons? The only consumable heavy weapon Commandos will have post CU will be our grenades. Our Consumable Launcher weapons will be Non-Consumable post CU. This should take care of our crafting issues, as well as much improve their usefulness. We'll know more once we start testing them, but I feel it's very cool that many of them now also have status effects.
Anyway...just thought it would be nice to relook at our Top 5 while we focus on the CU Changes...re-reading these just reminds me that good times are coming our way AND that the Devs HAVE BEEN listening to us...
Any thoughts?Agree or disagree with my analysis or did I miss anything?
Excess3
Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:36 am
#3
Looks good to me.
Are we sure that the damage radius of 'nades will stay what it is?
Do we have any idea of the stack size we will be getting? Are we talking 10-15 or 20-30 or 50-100 or what. 500 is a HUGE number, so we really have no idea what they mean by an increase.
Are we sure that the damage radius of 'nades will stay what it is?
Do we have any idea of the stack size we will be getting? Are we talking 10-15 or 20-30 or 50-100 or what. 500 is a HUGE number, so we really have no idea what they mean by an increase.
RukkaSilverstorm
Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:48 am
#4
Excellent...I am liking it more and more....state changes for grenades......woohoo....my biggest wish (I mean that).
JohboBocal
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:32 pm
#5
Thanks Garvin.
Iam anxious to move on to the next stage of beta. Marksman is fine, but I think we are all interested in the elite stuff.
I really like grenades, for the few hours they were active. The "Bug Bomb" was AWESOME. I hope most of you at least tried them out. Throwing them and seeing EVERYTHING around you die was beautiful!!! I hope they let us keep testing them soon.
Please ask for the next stage in CU testing to comence.
StarNick
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:37 pm
#6
If you thought the bug bomb was awesome...just wait till the Thermal Detonator...
inlord
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:47 pm
#7
StarNick wrote:
If you thought the bug bomb was awesome...just wait till the Thermal Detonator...
I think the thermal det should have the same sound as in the movie Return of the jedi,As The bountyhuntter opens it up in jabbas Place. Just before you throw it..
Message Edited by inlord on 04-04-2005 04:48 PM
garvin
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:48 pm
#8
I pretty much finished in Combat XP in a few hours using those Bug Bombs...that was my first hint they weren't likely to be sticking around...lol...when I first saw them I thought maybe they were a Programmer joke (i.e. you find a bug, blow it up!!!)
JohboBocal wrote:
Thanks Garvin.
Iam anxious to move on to the next stage of beta. Marksman is fine, but I think we are all interested in the elite stuff.
I really like grenades, for the few hours they were active. The "Bug Bomb" was AWESOME. I hope most of you at least tried them out. Throwing them and seeing EVERYTHING around you die was beautiful!!! I hope they let us keep testing them soon.
Please ask for the next stage in CU testing to comence.
Latenighter
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:49 pm
#9
On the DPS issue, I notice that our weapon DPS are comparable to those of other profs. But with our Heavy Weapon Speed modifier of +45 compared to other professions that have more (+65 Rifleman, +50 Carbine, +45 Pistol), will our DPS still remain competitive?
I notice that our heavy weapons are now faster than before (still a little slower than rifles, carbines, etc). The issue of whether we can add Power Ups to our ranged weapons (FT is rumored to not take a PuP) and the ability of other weapons types to PuP, is it still possible that we will be on the short end on the DPS scale?
I realize this is all still pending balancing issues, and that is what the CU is for. But perhaps a fellow commando with some free time could take the profession skill modifiers, and start developing a "true" DPS calculation that factors in the various profession skill modifiers. It might be a worthwhile project to show that the damage ranges of certain weapons may need to be increased/decreased to create the "balance" that the CU is intended to give.
I did a comparison between T21 and FT based on Razerwolf's images of the weapons.
........Min.....Max.....Avg...Speed....Raw DPS.....Spd Mod....Eff Spd....Effect DPS
T21.....437.....875.....656....2.5......262.4.......0.65.......0.875.......750
FT......423.....726.....575....2.8......205.2.......0.45.......1.540.......373
I assume you have to add the "elemental" damage to the min and the max so that you get a number close to the one SOE presented (which is reflected above). I took the average DPS and divided by raw speed to get Raw DPS shown (which looks like SOE's method). The mod is the speed modifier for achieving Master in Rifleman for T21 and Commando for FT (+65 and +45 respectively). I take (1-speed mod) x Speed = Effective Speed. Then I take Average damage / Effective Speed = Effective DPS. If that looks wrong to anyone, please say so! One issue that may be off is the treatment of general ranged speed, which I don't know how to incorporate yet.
Now I realize there may be a 1 second cap and the T21 is overstated for DPS if so, or they may have different caps on different weapon types to take into account the DPS stats above, but doing a calculation of the various different high tier weapons could be interesting for our planning on testing the elite professions side by side.
I'm not raising any alarms, just trying to be analytical in our approach. Since Razorwolf has been kind enough to post the images of every weapon in the game, if someone could extend the analysis above, we could have some real figures to use as benchmarks for our testing.
Cheers. I hope to visit the Mandalorian Commando Metropolis tonight to drop my house!
I notice that our heavy weapons are now faster than before (still a little slower than rifles, carbines, etc). The issue of whether we can add Power Ups to our ranged weapons (FT is rumored to not take a PuP) and the ability of other weapons types to PuP, is it still possible that we will be on the short end on the DPS scale?
I realize this is all still pending balancing issues, and that is what the CU is for. But perhaps a fellow commando with some free time could take the profession skill modifiers, and start developing a "true" DPS calculation that factors in the various profession skill modifiers. It might be a worthwhile project to show that the damage ranges of certain weapons may need to be increased/decreased to create the "balance" that the CU is intended to give.
I did a comparison between T21 and FT based on Razerwolf's images of the weapons.
........Min.....Max.....Avg...Speed....Raw DPS.....Spd Mod....Eff Spd....Effect DPS
T21.....437.....875.....656....2.5......262.4.......0.65.......0.875.......750
FT......423.....726.....575....2.8......205.2.......0.45.......1.540.......373
I assume you have to add the "elemental" damage to the min and the max so that you get a number close to the one SOE presented (which is reflected above). I took the average DPS and divided by raw speed to get Raw DPS shown (which looks like SOE's method). The mod is the speed modifier for achieving Master in Rifleman for T21 and Commando for FT (+65 and +45 respectively). I take (1-speed mod) x Speed = Effective Speed. Then I take Average damage / Effective Speed = Effective DPS. If that looks wrong to anyone, please say so! One issue that may be off is the treatment of general ranged speed, which I don't know how to incorporate yet.
Now I realize there may be a 1 second cap and the T21 is overstated for DPS if so, or they may have different caps on different weapon types to take into account the DPS stats above, but doing a calculation of the various different high tier weapons could be interesting for our planning on testing the elite professions side by side.
I'm not raising any alarms, just trying to be analytical in our approach. Since Razorwolf has been kind enough to post the images of every weapon in the game, if someone could extend the analysis above, we could have some real figures to use as benchmarks for our testing.
Cheers. I hope to visit the Mandalorian Commando Metropolis tonight to drop my house!
Message Edited by Latenighter on 04-04-2005 04:59 PM
StarNick
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:49 pm
#10
It doesnt (I already threw one! It has a 50 second cool-down, BUT of course thats without thrown weapon speed!).
However, a cool thing with our grenades (more prevalent with the Imperial Det)...now you actually hold the grenade and see it fly through the air, rather it being a generic munition round...
However, a cool thing with our grenades (more prevalent with the Imperial Det)...now you actually hold the grenade and see it fly through the air, rather it being a generic munition round...
Astyanax
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:54 pm
#11
This makes me so happy. I'll finally be able to go back to my true profession...
MrBulwark
Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:56 pm
#12
As for commando DPS, we have to remember that many of our weapons are AoE. Sure, that T-21 will be able to take out a single nightsister faster than we can, but we can take out 3 faster thanthe rifleman(assuming we keep them in the cone).
It wont make much difference in solo play because mobs will ring us, but when someone else is the tank, it will be very nice.
Excess3
Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:38 pm
#13
those bug bombs are still available.. you just gotta do the quest on rori 
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