Commando Archive
Thread: Just posted this on the Correspondent Forums: The Potential for Commando Specials
Moving on to the main focus of this thread; Commando Specials. Right now, the commando profession is entirely devoid of any specials to call our own...in return, we've been given "innate specials" via our weapons. The problem with this, is we're not damage dealers anymore with our profession. Where as a rifleman can use a powerful attack from within his own profession, we rely on either another ranged profession for our damage or weaker marksman specials. We have the slowest weapons in the game...thats a trade off of damage, but having SAC and no ability to do that damage within our profession cancels out the usefulness of a commando who isn't in a ranged template. This double negative does not produce a positive.
Who would not be in a ranged template anyways? A commando might, because our pre-reqs stem from both brawler and marksman; we even have general melee mods in our grenade tree. With the changes of the Combat Upgrade, commandos are entirely incompatible with using this pre-req to our advantage and dabbling in melee. The concept looked great on paper, with having our weapons defining our profession, but like many such concepts its practicality has failed us. Our "specials" only produce either a DoT, or if we use lower damaging weapons (like a Rocket Launcher) we can do other states such as blind or KD, and then an AoE effect. Is this damage? Is this our role? Just like Charge Shot or other state shots and AoE shots, usually they're not as powerful compared to a damage special like Carbineer's legshot. Isn't this contradictory to being a damage dealer? All of these states, including our AoE have been deemed "utility", yet thats near hypocrisy. Namely we don't even have a utility role icon, and our role specifically said, and I do quote:
"Commandos are intended to be the weapon specialists and are the final heavy damage dealing profession along with Rifleman and Swordsman. Commandos focus on their potent damage dealing capability rather than having a varied utility or strong defensive ability. "
And yet, we're now deemed "utility" and that this role no longer applies. Where may I ask was the memo of our role change? This was taken from the last revision of the CU documents, the profession mixing tips. It goes on to say that we could learn skills from other professions and that we have a "tactical flexibility", and we expand our potency by acquiring more specials from other ranged professions. The truth is sobering; we achieve the intended (or close to) damage dealing by relying (not expanding) on another ranged profession, there is little flexibility...
As long as we rely on "built-in specials", we will never reach the status of a damage dealer through our profession nor achieve this "tactical flexibility". This was a HUGE concern by the original Alpha team, and by both our former correspondents Garvin and Lordseckmoth, but it was promised that balance would be achieved. We saw it flawed back then, and it has proven to be a flawed system now. If the damage is beefed up on our weapons, elite specials from other professions then, when used with our weapons, become unbalanced to the extreme. Keep the damage the same, with no specials...then our role and profession suffer. The Commando Community is asking for balance for between us and the rest of the combat professions.
So I ask this, why not give us specials?
Now, AoE is our wildcard, that gives commando some deal of flexibility with other profession specials, and allow us to change play styles (ie Area KDs, Roots, etc...pretty much what we're useful at right now). That however, is flawed because nearly every heavy weapon doing the same function. For example, every CL50 and CL54 craftable heavy weapon not only does AoE, but also produces a DoT. This repetition isn't versitile, nor adds to the profession; all AoE is not practicaly sound when only one or two AoE weapons may do the same job for less. Also, dealing damage in an area is not the same as the damage dealer's we're familar with in regards to the pre-CU commando, Riflemen, Swordsman and the such. Since because we're the last of the damage dealers, and aren't a nuker but rather a hybrid...we're not condoned to one specific delivery of damage, yet we are.
Plus, thats not our role to be the empty shell filled by another profession's abilities which AoE essentially makes possible and having AoE on just about every weapon a commando would use isn't too smart either; anyone remember the one-trick pony flamethrower of old? Most commandos believe that AoE was the substitute for our damage, the ability to combine good AoE with any special along with a state from our weapons...quite impressive I must admit, but its also a curse as well, and might be the balancing factor in the commando equation. It was said from Fanfest we have the most powerful AoE, we do not and since its on every commando weapon just about commandos have little recourse to NOT aggro and be detrimental to their groups and do little good where damage is concerned against singular groups. There is no variety in damage, where damage actually exists...
Hence, in order for a commando special to work, AoE itself needs to be adjusted or in the extreme, thrown out from our equipable weapons period. An idea for this could be feasible, where our weapons are non AoE where our grenades are. Grenades could be the AoE weapons of damage dealing for our profession, and could do both AoE and good damage since one cannot use specials with them and to prevent abuse, slap on Heavy Weapons xp rather than Combat. Or, in the very least, divide Heavy Weapons par to the State of the Commando Profession where some of our weapons would be more damaging and non-AoE (same damage as now, but no AoE), and some weapons with weaker damage but full AoE.
This...utility, AoE, Elemental Damage, and DoTs/states, add to our damage - they aren't the answer to it. If our weapons could do the damage of rifleman's most powerful attack without warm-ups/cooldowns, thats bad...VERY bad. But we should be able to match it in some way. Originally we were designed via the CU to be flexible right? That flexiblity comes in the form of our weapons, but the actual implentation was only partially to the realization. Stick a commando special in, something similar to body shot from pistoleer or legshot from carbineer, where it can be damaging with the right weapons, but not to the point of being unbalanced. Throw in the utility, and we have a working damage dealer that can do the damage from within, and match our counterparts via DoT, elemental, or in some cases Area damage that will make us more tactically flexible. Commandos won't have the garuanteed instant damage as DoTs/states can fail, but over time we can compete and not be forced to rely on another profession to reach the damage that commando itself should already be doing.
And the best part? Since our weapons' "innate specials" aren't damage mutlipliers in their own right like specials, it could work. Whether our AoE works or not, if 40% or 100% splash damage...its eventually going to be used with a damaging special such as legshot, so why would it be considered unbalanced if we already had the special? It would be the same exact scenario and damage, but affording commandos the flexibility as prescribed. This is not a proposition to increase damage on our weapons, or give commandos mods that increase our damage....that would cause our weapons to really be like specials, and when used with other elite specials our abilities would turn into double the potency, and double the unbalance. Giving commandos a special or two will allow us to be a damage dealer, give us the flexibility, and generally improved the overall benefits that a non-commando would receieve from our profession and the benefits of a commando using his abilities to do his or her damage.
In conclusion, Commandos' utility enhances damage, but in order for those abilities to be enhanced, Commandos need some way to actually to do that damage. Its the final piece missing in the Commando Puzzle, and it can be addressed with some tweaks and fixes to our current arsenal, and the addition of a special or two. Call it a mini-revamp...
Message Edited by JoKen_Jash on 07-07-2005 10:53 PM
And yeah, that sounds corny
/backfromban
Thanks for your efforts starnick. In terms of specials I think some sort of "heavy shot, improved heavy shot, and advanced heavy shot" which are slow as all hell but do a nice bit of damage and maybe a knockdown would be good. then maybe a parallel set of "aoe heavy shots" which do slightly less damage
Btw I just reposted that from another thread, whoever thought of it originally all credit is due to them
Personally the lack of developer response is what annoys me the most about this professions problems. People, StarNick in particular, have posted numerous factual posts about the pros and cons of the profession. I have not read a single dev response to any one of them. A simple post stating that they have read the issues, they agree or disagree that there is a problem, and a list of items perhaps that they are in the process of developing or at least discussing would go a long way with me.
Right now commando is no better off then we were pre-CU. Pre-CU I had enough skill points to be Master Commando with a touch of scout for harvesting. Now just to be competitive I have to be Master Commando / Master Smuggler or Master BH or Master Pistoleer or Master Rifleman. Depending on your preference for specials. Other professions can master two professions to add to their fexibility. Master Commando HAS to add another combat profession. A master swordsman can be a master doctor getting both the best healing and the best melee offense. We can't do combinations like that.
I think a single concentrated special similar to leg shot, usuable with only Heavy Weapons; a cone or forward radial AoE attack, and improved and advanced versions of these attacks would help us out immensly. Radial AoE should come from high damage grenades. We would not need state effect specials because those are included in our weapons.
Another area that I think is severly being overlooked is our unarmed requirement for the profession. There is nothing in our elite profession that makes use of this requirement. Some kind of melee strike while heavy weapon equiped, center of being with heavy weapon equiped, or similar type of special ability would easily qualify this requirement.
Sadly all of this has been said before by better Commandos than I. I just hope that the continuous posts of the same issues and the same requested fixes will at some point catch a professional developers eye.
Keep up the good fight.
I am glad to see this is consistently being communicated. I was a master rifle/CM before the CU. I had always wanted to try commando so yes, I am a respec baby. Now that I am master commando/master rifle, my pvp rating has gone from 1293 down to 1108. SAC kills us. I was fighting a TKM in theed 1 vs 1. Thank god I had medic, cause the healing was the only thing that kept me alive for a beating. But during the fight I was shooting about once every 8 seconds cause I was out of Action. Using commando for me in pvp, is good for:
1. one solid KD with my RL (minus 25% action)
2. frighten people when I set them on fire
3. Tickle them with grenades