Commando Archive

I know, not a Star Wars quote, but I could not resist.

How did we get back to the master/dabbler nonsense?

First of all, before somone tries to say otherwise, lets consult the game manual.

"In fact, the most successful players will likely create unique characters by learning a number of disciplines from several different professions."

Now, the problem we have here is that master commando's are upset that they are not more powerful then flame 4 commandos WITH THE FLAME THROWER. There is a reason that phrase is in caps. Want to know what it is? Ok boys and girls, I will tell you.

Does becomming a master commando mean that you will be an uber flame thrower warrior? Yes. Does it mean you will ONLY be an uber flame thrower warrior. No, it does not.

Well, it should not. Being a master commando should mean that you have numerous ways of dealing large amounts of death and destruction. But, the other branches dont work, or dont work that well. So, eveyone focuses on the FT and master commandos are upset that they are not more powerfull then the flalme 4 guys.

Now, here is the hard pill. Master commandos should not be more powerfull then dabblers with the flame thrower. Not to the extent some people seem to want. I am all for adding some bonuses to the master box. I think it is a waste without them. But, making the FT significantly more powerful at master by doing somthing like moving flame 2 to master is unreasonable.

Try to get a handle on this next statement, it is really important.

Master Commandos should be better at being COMMANDO'S then flame 4 dabblers. This does not mean they should be better at the flame thrower.

If the other skill branches in commando worked properly and the DoT on the FT was not broken, we would not be having this discussion.

Use your time and energy to get commando fixed and stop wasting your time with this shortsighted nonsense.

you know alufnull all of us that are smart eventuly come to the same thoghts

so i must say i was rong befor and ur right its not flame 4 thats the proplem its the profesion and heres how it shoul be fixed

give the lp ap 1

take thehar swich it back to the beam rifel and make it extly like the llc{expt enrgy dam not elc dam} and maby alitel batter we r thehw ppl so inno way should the llc actuly be better and for graphics for the beam rifel u have a giant laser beam for specils

for the flamer make it so it dose no dam(ie min dam 100-max dam 200 speed 4.3){flamersin real life dont hurt when they hit but they do put one heck of a dot on}on attack but has a heck of a dot and sprays 23m

and add lp specils in the har line to what everthe devs want but we need some typ of specils

take the -119 rang mods of the hwps and make 0/+50/0

make the gernad rang mods +12/+60/+12

make ham on gernads 12/35/12

make speed on gernads 2.5

and most of all take the 2.5 mod away

if u did this we be happy

this would make us like were sapose to be and it make the hw worth buying knowing that u wont miss 50% of the time useing them

and the gernads be worth useing becous there fast accurat and aoe with not to high ofham

i have posted thisfew times alrady but i belive it more so now then ever this would fix us 100%

some one sed the lp shouling get ap1 but i have to disagree its a hw and a high powerd i cant ehlp pistolers use it

and if they do maby it shouldint work with fan shot and stope shot

We are on exactly thesame page. I don't want to see any change to the flamethrower at all (neither weapon nor line) EXCEPT in the dot's wounding, and the damage the dot does to armored targets (though this second onereally depends on your point of view, some think armor shouldn't hamper the dot, others think it should. I don't really have strong feelings either way, I mentioned it because I knew someone else would bring it up if I didn't).

My biggest problem with the dabblers takeing up flame4 is that they are griefing with it. And giveing the rest of us a bad rep. They also use it as a suicide attack in clone wars, getting close and cheap shotting people when they find a TEF target, with absalutely no risk and no worry about dieing. If they made adjustments to the flamethrowers DOT and how TEF works, then I would have no problem with the flame4 line being dabbled in. After all they do lose more points then the small advantage is worth IMO. Someone with master pistoleer and pistol line in BH can do 1500 damage in 3 shots, highly accurate and blindingly fast.

The top thing on my wish list is that the rest of the class gets tweaked and fixxed, you have a good point there. We are master COMMANDOS not master flamethrowers, and thus have advantages in our other lines, but the other lines are mostly broken so we got little advantage. I so want this fixxed

Alufnull--

Yes, a commando with flame IV should be effective (an issue in question, of itself)...

YES, a master commando should be more effective than a Flame IV commando with the flamethrower.

NO, a master should not be significantly better than a FT IV commando, with the flamethrower-- flamecone II and some modest FT skill adjustments would be sufficient.

So, in effect, with addition of some mods to master, like it looks like is going to happen, I agree with you.

Both sides have a point.

You gotta feel for the FT IV dabblers because they're commando's redhaired stepchildren, and its not like they're cheatng.

Gotta cut the masters some slack, because they're masters of a broken profession without any regular alternative to the FT, and so they have 43 more skill points down the toilet without appreciable effect as yet.

As far as I can tell, there really isn't a whole lot of an issue left:

Masters say master commando

a)must be fixed

b)should be more powerful than a dabbler commando at whatever the commando dabbles in.

Logically, this makes sense, or why spend the 620 apprenticeship and 6 skill points?

Dabblers say

a) The game is designed so dabbling works

b)the FT line shouldnt be stacked to master.

Again, both good and valid.

So, the consensus I've seen: Give masters some bonuses, and fix the profession, leave the FT tree alone.

So, now its a dead issue, since most people can agree, right? And we can stop the master v. dabbler debate, right? And we can actually start discussing productive things again, right?

The master v. dabbler issue wasn't unproductive, it just is now. We have gleaned all that can be takenfrom the carcass of the subject, so we need to move on.....

Athein

ok maby nightwolf maby the flamer dosint need a big chang

if u can explanine to me why the flamer thrower should do mass amont of dameg on attack then ill take thais out of the post befor i emial it to who ever that guy is iwas tould to send it to but i need to know y u think the flamer should remain as is

if u look at it im nither giveing it a nerff nore a buff it wount do thos one hit kills but she will still have her dot

and we can use the beam rifel for thos one hit kills insted

it wont be if they do what i say (i wish lol) but istill dont see it doing dam on impact

but i see where your comeing from and i understand and about the wounds ya they need to be lowerd in pvp if this hapend

Maddogs you state 'this would make us like were sapose to be'

Game balance is an ongoing thing, it evolves throughout the life cycle of an online game. Players have an unbelievable ability to find ways to give themselves an advantage and unfortunatley game designers are not able to cover all the options during the design stage. Asking to be made 'the way we were supposed to be' is unrealistic, we will change many many times over the next few years, along with every other profession. Eventually a decent balance will be found. We need to be constructive in our ideas, considerate of the game balanceas awhole and sympathetic to the problems of other professions. We are going around in a whole negative loop. Every time one profession is balanced people instantly start crying nerf on the new top dog.

Instead of saying 'they have this take it away' or 'they have this it's not fair, we should get one too' we need to start looking at the interaction of professions. All professions will never be equal and should never be. It's kinda sad when people have their professions nerfed due to the jelousy of others. We need to stop thinking less as commandos and more as SWG players. Remember, every change made to us also effects every non-commando, consider that from time to time.

IMO, it seems that the whole 'Master Commando really isnt appreciably better than Flame 4 dabbler' is NOT the problem; rather it is merely a symptom of the REAL problem: Everything in the Commando Tree besides the Flame Thrower is broken.Honestly, if HAR and grenades were working properly and HPBC's and the like were not so insanely expensive, a Master Commando would whomp someone who only took Flame to 4 any day of the week.

As I have said before, what the devs do is sidestep the REAL issues that are causing the problems (Armor does not work right esp. with respect to Flame DoT, HAR, etc.) and take the lazy man's road of nerfing down the entire commando experience to settle the other professions down a little, because it is easier for them nerf us all down to the level of the worst profession rather than fix the issues that would allow the not-so-good professions to become competetive with the good professions.Well,you know what? Boo-frickety-hoo! Every day at work, I have to bust my butt and do tons of work, not all of it mine and the lousier duties more often than not, for far lousier pay than what these guys are getting....but I still do it,because like it or not,they arethings that need to be done.Their version of 'balancing'does not work as from what I have heard/seen there is STILL whining about our profession. Likethe child who throws a temper tantrum at the store because Daddy wouldn't buy him a toy until the parent gives in just to quiet them down, all that really happened is people learned 'Hey If I whine and cry loud enough I can get my way!', thus starting the never ending cycle of nerf-crying by a profession every time another profession outperforms them once. Should we question things we see going on?YES!. But let us not devolve into whining and moaning about other classes (not that I am accusing anyone in here of doing that), instead let us remain calm and present our arguments intelligently. Take some time to learn about some of the other professions and see what their legitimate issues are, help them get those corrected, and push for actual balance among ALL the professions, rather than the never ending merry-go-round of nerfage and rediculous balancing of everyone down the the worst profession.

The problem of course is that we have no clear idea what a commando is supposed to be in SWG. I have been resigned to the fact that 3 of the 4 branches pale in comparison to the flamethrower, and that we are literally being compelled by game dynamics to focus almost exclusively upon FT because none of the other weapons are that useful, either because they are broken (HAR), dont really have the kind of area effect they should have or special damage (grenades), or are too expensive (the special heavy weapon branch, ie rocket launchers, etc). In addition, I don't like to use the grenade or the special heavies because I really only find out how accurate I am with the weapon after I fire it, unlike the FT which behaves more like a ranged weapon should.

Is it any wonder that people are "dabbling" (if you can call spending hundreds of thousands of hw exp for an entire branch of a profession dabbling) in Commando and getting FT4?

I am willing to wager that if the other branches were fixed or improved, we would see some lessening of this, or if a new flame special (beyond FC2) was added to the Master profession. How about knockdown of some type?

But I digress. THe point of my post is simply that because Commando is ill-defined, people are and will continue to dabble in the FT. Lets hope that some day the Combat Designer appreciates this fact and does something about it by way of constructive and positive development to the profession.

Because for now its our primary weapon. And you might not think a blast of napalm would hurt you very much but I think getting hit by a large stream of liquid fire would hurt alot on initial impact. The flames that slowly devour your body would hurt less then the initial blast, which is exactly how it works now.

And we are never going to get the beam rifle. I'm surprised the devs havn't removed it from the buildable weapons long ago. We are stuck with the acid rifle, I just want it fixxed. And to be honest I would rather have the ability to shoot acid damage then energy damage.

No one wants to see the flamethrower changed at all, its perfect as is except a few of the DOT issues. People would complain even more if it became a 1k dot, because that would give people 800+ wounds per tic. THAT would cause major problems.

The dev's need to do something to make all these whining master commandos more powerful with a FT than those pesky flame4 guys, maybe they should put flamecone2 at the master level ......

Uh uh! NERF MASTER COMMANDO! MOVE FLAMECONE2 TO FLAMETHROWER 1 WHERE IT BELONGS!

Sorry about that ..... I agree with what you're saying, but theimpudence of your post just forced me to act like an *sshole

I agree with Xeromancy to where yes a flamethrower 4 dabler should be powerful with the flame thrower, and a maste comando should be even better but not signifigantly better. Yes, a lot of the tree is broken to where the flamethrower becomes the focus due to the fact that its all we got thats any good.

I hear what Maddogs saying to do with the flamethrower, and I also say that is a no go and there should be good initial damage and heres why. You dont have an actual flamethrower around, err, maybe you do but I dont think you want to use it on yourself, but Im sure everyone once in there life has gotten burned maybe on a hot stove. When you first touch the hot stove do you not notice until your badly burned, or do you touch and then instantly pull your hand away cursing up a storm? Me, I sware like a sailor cause that friggin hurt and thats just a stove, not a direct flame. The next thing that comes of that is how you must treat the burn and in the stove case means run cold water over it or else it spreads and keeps hurting. Well, if you want to survive a flamethrower your going to need a doctor, thats a bit serious burn, and jumping into water with napalm on you i hate to say isnt going to help you. Napalm is actually a gell type substance, and is a chemical fire, you jump into water and it just spreads, more likely you catch the surface of the water on fire and I dont think thats where I want to be swimming. However, Im not saying they should just burn to death, but every shot should burn a little bit, but not for as long as our specials do now. I think they should just do a couple chunks of health damage to where the napalm is burnt up. Also, when your burnt you are really tender so I actually think whatever got hit by a flame should take a 2 times damage modifier until treated by a medic. Skin would just peel right off.

OK, I know what your thinking, "Boy, why not ask for a God profession or something?" And yes I think it would be a great length to do what I was talking about with the flamethrower in a way to where it wouldnt be an end all weapon and Im sure next to impossible to fit it in their "balancing" scheme, and I agree that would be too much. All im saying is if you want to look at what realistically would happen, thats what it would be, but this is a "video game."

As for the heavy weapons tree. When I think of that, I dont know why I want to be a master comando. When you think about it, if they give us enough charges to make it worth while, only those of us who know a good weaponsmith personally are going to be happy since players control the expense and want to make a profit after they spent the time looking forspecific material several of the weapons require, and if they give us more possible charges, more materials would probably be required so price would go up.

Thats why I dont agree with this item decay thing either. I'm sure its there so they dont have to worry about weaponsmiths going out of business, and to force us to go buy more weapons, but I apologize to any artisans out there that might be offended but I am fortuanate to have guy that is a good friend to me on SWG thats a master weaponsmith, that charges me almost half of what I've seen these vendors selling stuff and at a much better quality because he always makes the weapon specifically to me experimenting on what I ask him to to improve various weaknesses to either the weapon or my skilll and doesnt factory produce it. I am merely fortunate enough to know him, but I'm sure he charges others the same prices other artisans do.

If they want to make sure the weaponsmiths dont go out of business or something, they need to fix the whole idea of cloning and item insurance for those that foolishly dont insure their good stuff and dont go back to try to get the stuff.

I disagree with the original poster:

its exactly like the situation with CH's, players who get 1/2 of CH get all the great pets and whatnot..a master CH is meaningless when you can have all the great pets at half the needed skill pts

in commando, players who get only 1/4 of the proffession get 1/2 of the good weapons we have...same goes for here..

by saying a master commando should be better at being a COMMANDO opposed to a flame IV dabbler is totall irrevelant....because the flamethrower is 1/4 of our entire proffession...and a flame tree makes up 1/4 of our proffession....25% IS ALOT, so essentially you're saying that we shouldn't be better than 25% of our entire proffession??

the same also goes for hvy weapons...

the big debate is mostly to reduce the number of ppl who are as powerful as a FULL FLEDGED commando who also constantly give us a bad name, as CH dabblers give master ones bad names - and to increase the effectiveness of the Master Commando - which is good, since atm it is utterly useless!

and this debate will end soon, since on TC we have +30 more accuracy, and we get +50 more in total def mods in melee/ranged - but in my opinion, we should get more and reduce the flame tree (either by less spd/accuracy, or more spd in master OR a reduction in the 2.5X)

In closing remarks, Master Commandos SHOULD be more powerful at flame thrower..considering its 25% of our entire proffession...anyone with eyes can surely see this, by saying we shouldn't is ignoring 1/4 of commando. Being a master is when you've mastered EVERYTHING in your proffession, and you have gone up in higher learning to COMPLETE the training. Flame IV is NOT completeing Flamethrower training, Master Commando is, and it also completes Hvy weapons, HAR, and field tactics..if completeing the training on these three trees (75% of our class) why should Flamethrower be excluded?