Commando Archive
Thread: New Info on Recursive Macro Change
RozhlokLightningskull wrote:
TH:
I think a lot of us would appreciate it if you got into specifics of how you plan to elimnate recursive macros. If you do as you say and are elimiting recursive macros and check for an infite loop in a macro and don't allow that, then I think this is fine. I can live with it, for sure.
But, if you are just getting rid of the /macro and /ui action toolbarSlotxx and the like then we are going to have MAJOR problems. I think a lot of the community is up in arms about this right now because you haven't been specific enough.
Is /macro and /ui aciton toolbarSlotxx going away with this change? Because a great deal of my non-recursive macros use these commands!
We'll have more info for sure later this week, but for now, I wouldnt worry (this change won't be happening until well after Publish 10). Something along the lines of a time limit or a check for an infinite loop is what we will most likely see.
Basically this is saying EXACTLY what I've been saying since the initial announcement...It's to early to panic mainly because not enough is known!!! And from the sound of TH's post above, it doesn't sound like /ui action toolbarSlotxx is going away, but instead they are putting in checks or timelimits on Macros...The length of those time limits will be the next big question...
So don't let anyone get you up at arms with the panic of "The game will end when Recursive Macros are removed"...
garvin wrote:
TH recently posted this in another forum in response to all the Recursive Macro Panic:
We'll have more info for sure later this week, but for now, I wouldnt worry (this change won't be happening until well after Publish 10). Something along the lines of a time limit or a check for an infinite loop is what we will most likely see.
Basically this is saying EXACTLY what I've been saying since the initial announcement...It's to early to panic mainly because not enough is known!!! And from the sound of TH's post above, it doesn't sound like /ui action toolbarSlotxx is going away, but instead they are putting in checks or timelimits on Macros...The length of those time limits will be the next big question...
So don't let anyone get you up at arms with the panic of "The game will end when Recursive Macros are removed"...
Question in regards to combat macros...
Isnt there ALREADY a timelimit on specials? I.E. - the 3 second recharge time on flamesingle2, the 2.5 second delay on a non-AA/CA enhanced Master Rifleman using strafeshot2...And if you arent buffed, the time you have to wait for your HAM to recharge...If you ARE buffed (who really fights or grinds unbuffed anyway?), there is no "diminishing return"...
It just seems redundant to add checks or timelimits on combat specials when one (that works effectively as it is) already exists in the game.../boggleself
RankorCity wrote:
Question in regards to combat macros...
Isnt there ALREADY a timelimit on specials? I.E. - the 3 second recharge time on flamesingle2, the 2.5 second delay on a non-AA/CA enhanced Master Rifleman using strafeshot2...And if you arent buffed, the time you have to wait for your HAM to recharge...If you ARE buffed (who really fights or grinds unbuffed anyway?), there is no "diminishing return"...
It just seems redundant to add checks or timelimits on combat specials when one (that works effectively as it is) already exists in the game.../boggleself
I'm confused by what you mean Rankor...
The way I read it is not as adding any additional delay to Combat but instead, for example, if someone is running a infinite loop CoB maco, after say 10 minutes the Macro will time out and stop running...it's not adding anything to our specials, but limiting the time that Macros can keep running for before the system shuts them off...in other words, if someone starts up a looping Dance macro, 20 minutes later it would automatically shut off...
This is, of course, all speculation on TH's post...but I feel I could definitely get behind a Time Limit on Macros...Crafters would still be able to grind, just restarting after a certain amount of time...We combat types could still target our Toolbar slots...etc...it would still just target AFK player, but not impact heavily players who are don't stray from the keyboards more then 10 minutes or so...
I keep saying 10 minutes, but no time limit has been specified...if the Time Limit is the way they go, that's why we'll have to push for a time limit that feels reasonable...
RankorCity wrote:
Look...I understand the "why" of getting rid of the recursive macros. But I dont agree with it.
My CoB macro doesnt affect ANYONE but me, in the form of HAM usage...Its nice having a "set it and forget it"...
Why should dancers/crafters get hit with a time limit on macros when IF 90 percent of the combat moves wont be affected by it ?
Here me out for a second...
Lets go play in world where there is no dabbler...If I am doing ANY profession to master, I want to get to the Master box as fast as possible. It doesnt matter if its Commando, or Artisan. As a crafter, generally, very few items are in demand at any level except those schems that are available only at Master level.
If I am working on a crafting prof to either play full time, or drop immediately upon Master, the only time limit I should have is my own delay in double clicking the resources. I am not talking about third party proggies, but the actual physical time it takes for me to insert X resource into X slot. The idea behind the macro delay is to keep people from blazing thru profs. So I ask...Whats the big deal if they do? It affects me in no way whatsoever.
Like the armor and weapon switch delay, the very few people that will "abuse" (for lack of a better word) the non-delay are affecting the way the vast majority of players actually play the game.
I hope I made myself somewhat clear on this, and I realize I am babbling a little bit. I'll think about it and repost later...LOL
I see what you are saying Rankor...let me ask you this...if you use a CoB macro, what is the longest you've every let it run? Do you let it run even when you are out of combat? If you let it run 10 minutes and it stopped, would it be more then just an annoyance to restart it? I'm not asking to argue with you, I'm genuinely curious...I am still trying to determine this changes effect on our profession, and if they institute a Timer that is long enough, I feel like 90% of all complaints against the removal of recursive macros will be gone...
Most combat player complaints I've seen were surrounding the possible removal of /ui action toolbarSlotxx...but from the sounds of it, that command will stay as is...there will be no extra delays added...the only thing that will be added to a looping macro combat player is having to restart their macro if combat lasts past a certain amount of time...
As for crafters and such, they'll still be able to use the same macros they use now...all it would add is restarting their macro once every 10 minutes or so...Right now crafters have to be at their keyboards to use a crafting macro (otherwise they are using a 3rd party app)...so restarting a macro after 10 minutes doesn't seem like a big deal...
The big deal will be for the Dancer or BuffBot that typically runs non-stop for hours...they would still be impacted by adding a timer to looping macros...
Can you give me a specific example of how a not allowing a Looping macro to repeat after, say, 20 or 30 minutes would effect your game play? I ask again because I'm working on postive and negative impacts...
Tyrst wrote:
Garvin just an observation, but we don't have CoB so technically that portion of it doesn't even affect us. Just removing recursion doesn't even affect us so I can't think of how this would affect us in any way.
garvin wrote:
I see what you are saying Rankor...let me ask you this...if you use a CoB macro, what is the longest you've every let it run? Do you let it run even when you are out of combat? If you let it run 10 minutes and it stopped, would it be more then just an annoyance to restart it? I'm not asking to argue with you, I'm genuinely curious...I am still trying to determine this changes effect on our profession, and if they institute a Timer that is long enough, I feel like 90% of all complaints against the removal of recursive macros will be gone...
Most combat player complaints I've seen were surrounding the possible removal of /ui action toolbarSlotxx...but from the sounds of it, that command will stay as is...there will be no extra delays added...the only thing that will be added to a looping macro combat player is having to restart their macro if combat lasts past a certain amount of time...
As for crafters and such, they'll still be able to use the same macros they use now...all it would add is restarting their macro once every 10 minutes or so...Right now crafters have to be at their keyboards to use a crafting macro (otherwise they are using a 3rd party app)...so restarting a macro after 10 minutes doesn't seem like a big deal...
The big deal will be for the Dancer or BuffBot that typically runs non-stop for hours...they would still be impacted by adding a timer to looping macros...
Can you give me a specific example of how a not allowing a Looping macro to repeat after, say, 20 or 30 minutes would effect your game play? I ask again because I'm working on postive and negative impacts...
When I am buffed and overt (most of the time), I have it running regardless of what weapon I have in my hand at the time. Both my chars are ranged/melee (one a master rifleman/swords, the other Master Commando/MTKA).
When I am grinding, I always have an intimidate macro running, or when I am out killing stuff for loot. Usually, I switch to my melee prof if I am solo to kill whatever it is I am killing. So that being that case, my intimidate and CoB macro are running nonstop. When I have a tank, and I am using Master Rifleman, I run a macro that intimidates (just as back up), and spams headshot3 or strafeshot2, depending on whether or not I am having to compete for the loot...Fighting a creature like a Krayt with 300K HAM, it gets hold hammering the strafeshot2 hotkey all the time. So, I run a loop macro to do it for me.
As far as Commando is concerned specifically, I cant see the recursive macro hurting it much, if any at all. The delay in specials is a killer, especially given that delay carries over if I switch to a lp, or vk's. But I am thinking big picture here, as it will affect many profs, with the sole intention of eliminating the /afk'ers. I have dealt with /afk spam in coronet and theed just as much as anyone, and at this point it doesnt even faze me as my addignore list is HUGE. Also given that rarely have the spatial window up, its even less of a bother.
Honestly, Garvin, in my current profs (I never plan on be any sort of crafter), it most likely will not affect me. But I think its a kneejerk reaction to the entertainers complaints (and some other profs) about buff bots, same as in the armor / weapon switch delay (in response to Jedi one keying an entire armor switch when they got in trouble). Its a case of the smallest group complaining the most getting a change that negatively affects others.
I, mean, really....Who really cares about buff bots? What is the big deal? Further, I could care less the people that use 3rd party proggies to macro crafting profs...It doesnt affect me one way or the other. The people that complain are just...complaining. Its something to complain about, and somehow it makes them validate themselves in their chosen profs.