Commando Archive
Thread: Thunderpants Reveals all!
<Keldarin> Jedi skills are tough and it will depend on how significantly the skills are actually changes. Minor balance shifts will not need a respec but significant changes to power organization will.
TKA-MC wrote:
5 star's for the name of the post! As far as one of TH's answers pertaining to the Pistoleer profession and augumenting damage. He did mention Commando in there......which is really pointing towards that a Master Commando will be a FORCE on the field! Skill's point's BETTER mean something.
Skill points will mean something, but not the way many people understand them...The trick is that we have to stop looking at our skill point count from Novice Marksman to Master Commando and focus in on the skill point cost of Novice Commando to Master Commando...
All elite and hybrid professions cost exactly the same skill points from the Novice of their profession to the Master box...thus...they should all be comparable on the same scale...BUT...then comes the pre-reqs that "boost" those professions...in otherwords, what I am saying is that if a Master Rifleman wants to be "comparable" to a Master Commando, they'll want to Master Marksman and take up at least one tree of the Brawler profession...
When the Devs do get around to revealing the profession specifics, you'll notice that what we get from Novice Commando to Master Commando is comparable (to some degree, working on our strengths and weaknesses) to what other combat professions get from Novice to Master...BUT...then add in the numbers and such thatwe get from Marksman and our Unarmed Pre-req and you'll see the "boost" I'm talking about...
When all is said and done (and dabbling is complete)...every player is a 250 Whatever...so we should all be comparable, but of course, not all equal...We should (if the CU works right) be able to dominate some while being dominated by others...Rock-Paper-Sissors...And groups with more diversity will find their bases better covered when it comes to strengths vs. weaknesses.
garvin wrote:
All elite and hybrid professions cost exactly the same skill points from the Novice of their profession to the Master box...thus...they should all be comparable on the same scale...BUT...then comes the pre-reqs that "boost" those professions...in otherwords, what I am saying is that if a Master Rifleman wants to be "comparable" to a Master Commando, they'll want to Master Marksman and take up at least one tree of the Brawler profession...
When the Devs do get around to revealing the profession specifics, you'll notice that what we get from Novice Commando to Master Commando is comparable (to some degree, working on our strengths and weaknesses) to what other combat professions get from Novice to Master...BUT...then add in the numbers and such thatwe get from Marksman and our Unarmed Pre-req and you'll see the "boost" I'm talking about...
JohboBocal wrote:
garvin wrote:
All elite and hybrid professions cost exactly the same skill points from the Novice of their profession to the Master box...thus...they should all be comparable on the same scale...BUT...then comes the pre-reqs that "boost" those professions...in otherwords, what I am saying is that if a Master Rifleman wants to be "comparable" to a Master Commando, they'll want to Master Marksman and take up at least one tree of the Brawler profession...
When the Devs do get around to revealing the profession specifics, you'll notice that what we get from Novice Commando to Master Commando is comparable (to some degree, working on our strengths and weaknesses) to what other combat professions get from Novice to Master...BUT...then add in the numbers and such thatwe get from Marksman and our Unarmed Pre-req and you'll see the "boost" I'm talking about...
Ok, I think I have to see it to understand it. I'm kinda understanding, but not completely. But I'm glad to see we are at least talking about this stuff now.
Let me put it to you this way...All Elite and Hybrid Professions cost exactly 63 skill points from the start of their profession (not pre-reqs) to the Master box...Novice Rifleman to Master Rifleman = 63...Novice Pistoleer to Master = 63...Novice BH to Master BH=63...etc...
Thus...all these professions from Novice to Master are balanced against each other...Each have their strengths and their weaknesses...
Think of it as if they all had 1 to 3 ratings on Defense-Offense-Other. All combat professions would start at 2-2-2...then their numbers would be adjusted up or down, but evenly...so let's say TKA needs huge defense, they'd lose in offense to come out something like 3-1-2...where as Commandos need high offense so they'd come out like 1-3-2...They'd all be balanced against each other in that regard...but notice that a player who combines Commando and TKA would come out as 4-4-4 (a balanced template)...Things won't work quite this easy, but you get the idea hopefully..AND NOTE...What I'm saying here is NOT exactly how things will be in the CU and doesn't represent any hints to changes...I'm just giving random examples of stuff I've made up..
So there you have it...all combat professions are balanced solely on Novice to Master's worth of 63 skill points spent...After that's all done, THEN comes the pre-reqs into the equation...Our 63 points will make us match up in some fashion to the other combat profession, but it's our total amount of pre-reqs that will push us over them UNTIL they spend the same amount of skill points...A 169 pt Commando will match up to a 169 pt Pistoleer depending on how the Pistoleer spends those skill points...But a 169 pt Commando will not match up to a Pistoleer who has spent all of their skill points (250)...
One of the coolest things about the CU (besides armor and the HAM stuff) overall is the fact that Pre-Reqs are being made more useful...no more will people grind those pre-reqs and then never get any use out of them later...Post-CU, players should find that their pre-reqs help boost what they go onto later and are useful...That's kind of what TH was aluding to in some of his CU posts...
Hope that makes a bit more sense...
It took me 1.5 hours to read all the documents (at the time...more subsequently were added/enhanced/etc/etc)..and to really fully understand them I had to read them a few times. Needless to say, it was a LOT to absorb at once...
At least here, taking things step by step (who knows, devs may be doing a FF piecemeal...1 week about Armor, another week something else etc)...they can be discussed and fully absorbed until the next bit of info released...
garvin wrote:
Some key Q&A's:
<^J^> *BountyGreg* Combat Revamp Question: I read the stats for species will change, does it mean trandos will finally be able to wear complete armor?
Trandoshans cannot physically wear boots due to the size of their feet and that won't be changing. We do recognize the gameplay impact of this however and will be removing feet and hand as valid hit locations in combat. Armor will not longer be needed in those areas to be fully effective.
This is a situation that could be a potential sore spot though not knowing difficulties I'm not sure how much of a potential. So I'm bringing this up for those who have access to teh details to think about.
We have a possible SP reallocation though details are not ironed yet. So if you find your current template is not what or where you need it to be to fit your play style you can change. But what if your species no longer fits your game play? We find out maybe another species is far better at what you need or the species you are is gimped in the are of most imprtance to you? Then what? You have to wipe out your toon that you have had for months a year some even close to 2 years (after this goes live)?
Like I said I dont' know the details and this may actually not be a problembut this one has been bothering me quite a bit.
Novock wrote:
garvin wrote:
Some key Q&A's:
<^J^> *BountyGreg* Combat Revamp Question: I read the stats for species will change, does it mean trandos will finally be able to wear complete armor?
Trandoshans cannot physically wear boots due to the size of their feet and that won't be changing. We do recognize the gameplay impact of this however and will be removing feet and hand as valid hit locations in combat. Armor will not longer be needed in those areas to be fully effective.
This is a situation that could be a potential sore spot though not knowing difficulties I'm not sure how much of a potential. So I'm bringing this up for those who have access to teh details to think about.
We have a possible SP reallocation though details are not ironed yet. So if you find your current template is not what or where you need it to be to fit your play style you can change. But what if your species no longer fits your game play? We find out maybe another species is far better at what you need or the species you are is gimped in the are of most imprtance to you? Then what? You have to wipe out your toon that you have had for months a year some even close to 2 years (after this goes live)?
Like I said I dont' know the details and this may actually not be a problembut this one has been bothering me quite a bit.
As far as I understand TH's response and from what I've read elsewhere, there are not likely any changes to species "stats" coming with the CU or if they do, they won't be hugely impacting to the point that folks will want to scrap and start over (notice that TH didn't respond to the stat part)...It's more regarding armor...basically all TH is saying is that when it comes to damage calculations vs defenses,Feet and Hands will not be considered (you don't even need to wear armor there anymore) because not being able to wear these types of armor types put certain species at a serious disadvantage.
And before the question get's asked (because I asked this awhile ago), those high priced set of boots or gloves you have slotted with your favorite skill mods aren't likely to become useless...The Devs have already said they are taking that into consideration and players aren't likely to be out of luck here...they'll likely still work for their slot-ability...
This announcement for me kinda sucks...A friend who left the game gave me his famous 100% base protection gloves...Maybe I should auction them before it sinks in what TH was saying...lol 
garvin wrote:
Novock wrote:
garvin wrote:
Some key Q&A's:
<^J^> *BountyGreg* Combat Revamp Question: I read the stats for species will change, does it mean trandos will finally be able to wear complete armor?
Trandoshans cannot physically wear boots due to the size of their feet and that won't be changing. We do recognize the gameplay impact of this however and will be removing feet and hand as valid hit locations in combat. Armor will not longer be needed in those areas to be fully effective.
This is a situation that could be a potential sore spot though not knowing difficulties I'm not sure how much of a potential. So I'm bringing this up for those who have access to teh details to think about.
We have a possible SP reallocation though details are not ironed yet. So if you find your current template is not what or where you need it to be to fit your play style you can change. But what if your species no longer fits your game play? We find out maybe another species is far better at what you need or the species you are is gimped in the are of most imprtance to you? Then what? You have to wipe out your toon that you have had for months a year some even close to 2 years (after this goes live)?
Like I said I dont' know the details and this may actually not be a problembut this one has been bothering me quite a bit.
As far as I understand TH's response and from what I've read elsewhere, there are not likely any changes to species "stats" coming with the CU or if they do, they won't be hugely impacting to the point that folks will want to scrap and start over (notice that TH didn't respond to the stat part)...It's more regarding armor...basically all TH is saying is that when it comes to damage calculations vs defenses,Feet and Hands will not be considered (you don't even need to wear armor there anymore) because not being able to wear these types of armor types put certain species at a serious disadvantage.
And before the question get's asked (because I asked this awhile ago), those high priced set of boots or gloves you have slotted with your favorite skill mods aren't likely to become useless...The Devs have already said they are taking that into consideration and players aren't likely to be out of luck here...they'll likely still work for their slot-ability...
This announcement for me kinda sucks...A friend who left the game gave me his famous 100% base protection gloves...Maybe I should auction them before it sinks in what TH was saying...lol
Hmm but this was pointed out in teh overview not just the chat:
TH wrote:
•Profession and Character Upgrades
- New abilities to help professions – each of the combat professions will be given a specific role in combat to fulfill.
- “Mind” stat Balance - it won’t be the all-important stat in combat that it is now.
- Make all species viable in combat – Different species will have different advantages based on their stats.
- Dramatically reduce probability of “first strike” always determining victory.
Different advantages according to the species stats. I would hope I woulnd't have to dump my character that I have a year of time into but thisis still of concern to me.
Novock wrote:
garvin wrote:
Novock wrote:
garvin wrote:
Some key Q&A's:
<^J^> *BountyGreg* Combat Revamp Question: I read the stats for species will change, does it mean trandos will finally be able to wear complete armor?
Trandoshans cannot physically wear boots due to the size of their feet and that won't be changing. We do recognize the gameplay impact of this however and will be removing feet and hand as valid hit locations in combat. Armor will not longer be needed in those areas to be fully effective.
This is a situation that could be a potential sore spot though not knowing difficulties I'm not sure how much of a potential. So I'm bringing this up for those who have access to teh details to think about.
We have a possible SP reallocation though details are not ironed yet. So if you find your current template is not what or where you need it to be to fit your play style you can change. But what if your species no longer fits your game play? We find out maybe another species is far better at what you need or the species you are is gimped in the are of most imprtance to you? Then what? You have to wipe out your toon that you have had for months a year some even close to 2 years (after this goes live)?
Like I said I dont' know the details and this may actually not be a problembut this one has been bothering me quite a bit.
As far as I understand TH's response and from what I've read elsewhere, there are not likely any changes to species "stats" coming with the CU or if they do, they won't be hugely impacting to the point that folks will want to scrap and start over (notice that TH didn't respond to the stat part)...It's more regarding armor...basically all TH is saying is that when it comes to damage calculations vs defenses,Feet and Hands will not be considered (you don't even need to wear armor there anymore) because not being able to wear these types of armor types put certain species at a serious disadvantage.
And before the question get's asked (because I asked this awhile ago), those high priced set of boots or gloves you have slotted with your favorite skill mods aren't likely to become useless...The Devs have already said they are taking that into consideration and players aren't likely to be out of luck here...they'll likely still work for their slot-ability...
This announcement for me kinda sucks...A friend who left the game gave me his famous 100% base protection gloves...Maybe I should auction them before it sinks in what TH was saying...lol
Hmm but this was pointed out in teh overview not just the chat:
TH wrote:
•Profession and Character Upgrades
- New abilities to help professions – each of the combat professions will be given a specific role in combat to fulfill.
- “Mind” stat Balance - it won’t be the all-important stat in combat that it is now.
- Make all species viable in combat – Different species will have different advantages based on their stats.
- Dramatically reduce probability of “first strike” always determining victory.
Different advantages according to the species stats. I would hope I woulnd't have to dump my character that I have a year of time into but thisis still of concern to me.
I
As I stated, I don't think it's going to be drastic...and I don't think they are taking anything away...I read that more to mean "make ALL species viable in combat"...meaning that those species that aren't already "viable" in combat will be "improved"...Already most species have different advantages based on their stats...Post CU, ALL of them will...
If the Devs did plan to make radical changes, it's VERY VERY likely they'd have included a species change ability in their message about the skill respec...It's the fact that they didn't that makes me think that all combat oriented species aren't changing, but all not combat oriented species are being made useful for combat to some degree.
garvin wrote:
JohboBocal wrote:
garvin wrote:
All elite and hybrid professions cost exactly the same skill points from the Novice of their profession to the Master box...thus...they should all be comparable on the same scale...BUT...then comes the pre-reqs that "boost" those professions...in otherwords, what I am saying is that if a Master Rifleman wants to be "comparable" to a Master Commando, they'll want to Master Marksman and take up at least one tree of the Brawler profession...
When the Devs do get around to revealing the profession specifics, you'll notice that what we get from Novice Commando to Master Commando is comparable (to some degree, working on our strengths and weaknesses) to what other combat professions get from Novice to Master...BUT...then add in the numbers and such thatwe get from Marksman and our Unarmed Pre-req and you'll see the "boost" I'm talking about...
Ok, I think I have to see it to understand it. I'm kinda understanding, but not completely. But I'm glad to see we are at least talking about this stuff now.
Let me put it to you this way...All Elite and Hybrid Professions cost exactly 63 skill points from the start of their profession (not pre-reqs) to the Master box...Novice Rifleman to Master Rifleman = 63...Novice Pistoleer to Master = 63...Novice BH to Master BH=63...etc...
Thus...all these professions from Novice to Master are balanced against each other...Each have their strengths and their weaknesses...
Think of it as if they all had 1 to 3 ratings on Defense-Offense-Other. All combat professions would start at 2-2-2...then their numbers would be adjusted up or down, but evenly...so let's say TKA needs huge defense, they'd lose in offense to come out something like 3-1-2...where as Commandos need high offense so they'd come out like 1-3-2...They'd all be balanced against each other in that regard...but notice that a player who combines Commando and TKA would come out as 4-4-4 (a balanced template)...Things won't work quite this easy, but you get the idea hopefully..AND NOTE...What I'm saying here is NOT exactly how things will be in the CU and doesn't represent any hints to changes...I'm just giving random examples of stuff I've made up..
So there you have it...all combat professions are balanced solely on Novice to Master's worth of 63 skill points spent...After that's all done, THEN comes the pre-reqs into the equation...Our 63 points will make us match up in some fashion to the other combat profession, but it's our total amount of pre-reqs that will push us over them UNTIL they spend the same amount of skill points...A 169 pt Commando will match up to a 169 pt Pistoleer depending on how the Pistoleer spends those skill points...But a 169 pt Commando will not match up to a Pistoleer who has spent all of their skill points (250)...
One of the coolest things about the CU (besides armor and the HAM stuff) overall is the fact that Pre-Reqs are being made more useful...no more will people grind those pre-reqs and then never get any use out of them later...Post-CU, players should find that their pre-reqs help boost what they go onto later and are useful...That's kind of what TH was aluding to in some of his CU posts...
Hope that makes a bit more sense...
Actually yes, much more. Thanks again amigo.