Commando Archive

Remove the unarmed requirement for commando, make it so only master marksman is required to become commando.

Its ridiculous to have us waste so many skill points on novice brawler and unarmed4 when we get NO benefit from it.

Fico:

Close range=bad.

Also, ludicrous to think a pistoleers dps < a carbinier or a rifleman's... well, especially a rifleman's.

And, as a master carbinier, you shouldknowa commando's dps = a carbiniers dps... roughly.

So....

Now, all elite combat professions and BH(rightly for BH) > commando. <---- In both PvP and PvE!The FT was fixed, and no longer multiplies damage against enemies. It should have been left at that, and nerfed again if it still was unbalanced... but it wouldn't have been.

SOE=always overbuff/overnerf

Athein

In my opinion, do not remove the unarmed requirement. I am a Commando & Teras Kasi. This combonation fits extremely well together. Flamethrower for ranged and specials, then Vibro Knuckles for melee.

Just the other day some imperial combat medic (an ever growing swarm on our server) saw me with a flamethrower equiped, lobbed a desease dot at me, and then ran up to me with a sword of some sort. I got a few decent hits with the flamethrower and whipped out the vibro knuckles and started to beat him down. He got scared and ran, so I hit the hotkey to /flamesingle1 his butt.

Use what skills you have and don't play stupidly.

Sedory - IceClan

"In my opinion, do not remove the unarmed requirement. I am a Commando & Teras Kasi. This combonation fits extremely well together. Flamethrower for ranged and specials, then Vibro Knuckles for melee."

The problem is, not everyone wants to become a TKA. Why should we be forced to if we want to survive? And if the flamethrower isn't designed to be used at close range, when why are the specials limited to 16m or less? This change was not thought out very well.

---

FicoFeafip wrote:

In essense since every other ranged combatant has a penalty it follows that a commando, who does ranged attacks, should as well. Now, if you start from a 2.5x penalty since your weapons are just as heavy as a rifleman's and do more damage it follows that a small percent of that should be negated by your brawling skills.

---

Other ranged combatants do not have to become unarmed specialist simply to enter their profession. Other ranged combatants have specials with ranges much greater than 16m. Pistoleers and Carbineers get bonuses to shoot while moving. Commandos have difficulty staying away from opponents because we seem to stop repeatedly each time we take a shot.

I short, commandos are not like other ranged professions. Just like brawlers, we are designed to fight toe to toe with opponents.Like brawlers, we are close combatants. Brawlers don't receive a damage multiplier from other brawlers and neither should we.

Something to keep in mind based on what developers have said in the past...

They believe Bounty Hunters should do the most damage based on the skill point investment in their class, as they lose the flexibility of multi classing. They also said they believed Commando damage was about where they wanted it in relation to the total skill cost of going Commando.

So, it would seem the choices would be 1)losing the Brawler requirement, and getting a slight nerf to Commando damage.... or 2) picking up another line as a reuirement for Commando.

Is there another line that would be more appropriate given the 2.5x damage nerf? If so, any ideas on a way to transition existing Commandos to new pre-requisites?

Honestly, given their past strategy towards what they consider appropriate power for a class... I'd ask them to make Master Brawler a pre-req and increase weapon damag, but that's just me

"Other ranged combatants do not have to become unarmed specialist simply to enter their profession."

Exactly, that's why I said Commandos should have a lower penalty than Rifleman even though their weapons are heavier.

"Other ranged combatants have specials with ranges much greater than 16m."

Good point. But you can still shoot from range and should have at least have a small penalty like every other ranged weapon user, right?

"Commandos have difficulty staying away from opponents because we seem to stop repeatedly each time we take a shot."

This has been a Carbineer issue for weeks (if not months). As far as I know many other professions suffer from this as well (all of them?).

"I[n] short, commandos are not like other ranged professions. Just like brawlers, we are designed to fight toe to toe with opponents.Like brawlers, we are close combatants. Brawlers don't receive a damage multiplier from other brawlers and neither should we."

I agree with you.You aren't like other ranged professions but you can still shoot from range, period. Every professionthat shoots from range has a penalty. Commandos require brawler skills and should not get as severe a penalty as Riflemen (even though their weapons are heavier). Thus is follows that you should get a penalty of around 1.75-2.0 which is less/equal toa Carbineer but more than a pistoleer.

Course, the other alternative is to have varied penalties for the different commando weapons. Less for a Flamethrower but more for a Rocket Launcher for example?

Fico Feafip

Master Doctor/Carbineer of Scylla

P.S. - I love commandos, I really do. They are the best source of Medical XP in the game due to Fire. But someone needs to play devils advocate....

---

FicoFeafip wrote:

In my mind a modifier is required for the commando class.

In essense since every other ranged combatant has a penalty it follows that a commando, who does ranged attacks, should as well. Now, if you start from a 2.5x penalty since your weapons are just as heavy as a rifleman's and do more damage it follows that a small percent of that should be negated by your brawling skills. Thus your equation goes from the above to:

Commando: heaviest weapons + fairly close range - brawling skills = 1.75-2.0x penalty

To me this seems more than fair. It takes into account that you are using HEAVY weapons, fighting at a close range, have high damage, but decent brawling skills. Taking away the 2.5x penalty totally is unfair to the other ranged classes in that a Master Rifleman with Master Brawler would still take 2.5x damage from melee when using a rifle.

Fico Feafip

Master Doctor/Carbineer of Scylla

---

In my mind a modifier is required for the commando class.

As it stands right now, think of it this way:

Pistoleer: smallest weapon + fairly close range = 1.5x penalty

Carbineer: medium weapon + medium range = 2.0x penalty

Rifleman: heavy weapons + long range = 2.5x penalty

Commando: heaviest weapons + fairly close range = 2.5x penalty

In essense since every other ranged combatant has a penalty it follows that a commando, who does ranged attacks, should as well. Now, if you start from a 2.5x penalty since your weapons are just as heavy as a rifleman's and do more damage it follows that a small percent of that should be negated by your brawling skills. Thus your equation goes from the above to:

Commando: heaviest weapons + fairly close range - brawling skills = 1.75-2.0x penalty

To me this seems more than fair. It takes into account that you are using HEAVY weapons, fighting at a close range, have high damage, but decent brawling skills. Taking away the 2.5x penalty totally is unfair to the other ranged classes in that a Master Rifleman with Master Brawler would still take 2.5x damage from melee when using a rifle.

Fico Feafip

Master Doctor/Carbineer of Scylla

BH is a ranged weapon specialist and is supposed to be able to run down/hunt down anything.

That is why they are master marksmen AND master scouts. BH has always taken the same penalties that all the other ranged classes receive... if they equip the scatter pistol they get pistol benefits/drawbacks..same if they equip the carbine... and now they get the 2.5x too if they are shooting the LLC.

They do NOT have any brawler requirements. And thats why they did not receive any melee defenses or benefits. However, the BH does receive a tree for their carbine and pistol that are loaded with utilities... and they DO have more than enough points left over to dabble in pistoleer and carbineer...or even 2 trees of commando itself. That means LOADS of damage, utility and a wide variety of firepower.

Commando oth, does not have to be master scout, but has to be master marksman and unarmed4. The only utility they get in all their tree lines is the flamer DOT. Thats IT. And using it leaves the commando completely helpless for 9-15 seconds.

So if you think about it, the BH benefits from all but 1 of its requirement skill trees:

Exploration gives them mask scent and terrain negotiation.

Trapping gives them tools and advantages when hunting creatures (phenacnine dart=win or getaway)

Hunting gives them creature to hit and creature knowledge.

Survival is perhaps the only tree that doesnt help them much.

Master scout increases the mods on all scouting trees.

Master Marksman gives them ranged defense, access to base specials for pistol/carbine and rifle as well as specials for ranged..and +17 ranged defense.

Then enter BH, where they can specialize even further in carbine and pistol and get access to a heavy damage weapon.

Commandos get the master marksman benefits.. but then the unarmed requirement USED to be supposedly to give us melee class toughness when wielding our heavy weapons... now that the 2.5x penalty is in place, that toughness is gone. Zero benefit. Then come the commando heavy weapons themselves.. literally ZERO abilities.. cant choose what ham bar to hit, only 'bleed' is the flamer..at 18m range (compared to 64m range bleeds from BH), have penalty from using said special and if that wasnt enough, of the 4 trees, 2 are 'expendables' which forces us to constantly buy grenades and cannons/rocket launchers which are **edit** expensive and the other 2 trees both have short range specials, and the HAR tree is practically useless as its just a really bad performing acid-damage flamethrower with no dot.

So in essence, in comparison with BH, we get no utility. No benefit from unarmed requirement. 2 of our 4 weapon trees are largely pointless to use (grenades, HAR). And we are supposed to close into melee range to use our One and Only special attack with 2.5x melee penalty?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

I say, remove the Unarmed4 requirement and make the Commando be a pure ranged weapon specialist. Do that and then our specials at melee range with the flamethrower DO deserve the 2.5x penalty because we would have the capability of having ranged specials from other proffessions..saving the flamer for dangerous assault charges (and for the damage the flamer does plus dot it should be dangerous for both commando and victim to get so close to use the flamer).

This can be done by making the Commando requirements be Master Marksman and to be novice in all 4 advanced careers: Rifleman, Pistoleer and Carbineer. That way a Master Commando will have 92 skill points left over to dabble in any of those 3 advanced careers and any scouting requirement career decently high.

As it is now, commandos having unarmed requirement is like making BH's have Artisan->Domestic Arts4 as a requirement.

what he is saying results in the same situation we are in now. getting into melee range because we practically have no other choice since our weapons dont have any other specials... and once in melee range we die almost all the time because of the melee penalty. What is the alternative? Use a marksman gun with marksman accuracy mods? Doing that turns you commando into nothing different than a marksman weapon level4 player. An easy target.

So you spent all the points in master commando so you could only have the ability to gloriously suicide? To pay loads of money to throw grenades (hey 10-15m effective range modifier.. melee range for all purposes)... or topay forheavy cannons that will miss moving targets AND to boot must be fired at a rather specific range or they WILL miss?

Or to get the best kinetic defense armor, pay hundreds of thousands of credits to get it properly sliced... and have the 2.5x penalty make that armor protect you as good as a cheap mabari suit?

The whole situation is retarded. Read my sig. Have a banana.

The 2.5 damage modifier is exactly waht they needed to add tokill the comando class. The dablers will trickle away from master comando and move their skill points to other trees. BH will again be the most popular class, Because the devs obviously stated they love them and believe they should be the strongest pvp class.

Once again.. The devs are wrong.

All of the skills requred for the comando line are COMBAT ORIENTED. All of them. 1/3 of the BH skill tree has absolutly nothing to do with PVP. So unless there is some secret tree that only BH's can see.... Comando should dominate in PVP. You should need 2 or more people to defeat a master comando at any range. (By defeatI meanDB BEFORE he DBs you. not poison and run...)

Dont get me wrong.. This is not a nerf cry for the BH's tree. This is a PLEASE FIX THE CURRENT CLASSES BEFORE YOU ADD NEW ONES cry.

Asus--- "I cant beleve they didnt fixany of the weapons again..."

Asuph--- "Well, look at the bright side... Now you can have your freckles rearanged by an image designer..."

Asus--- "Shut up jacka$$"

Asuph--- "/drool"

Asus