Commando Archive
Thread: Solutions that may help alleviate the Fire DoT
- Fix the incapp issue...currently when someone get's incapp'd by the Fire DoT, as soon as they get up, the Burn immediately hits them again for another incapp...this is a BUG....it needs to be fixed...when someone get's back up, the timer should start over giving them time to deal or get off another few shots....Or even the timer should be made longer to give them more time to deal.
- An item like a Fire Extingisher should be added to the game...but it needs restrictions...it must be used 3 times to put out a DoT at least...each use reduces the DoT's burn effect. It should also have a timer of at least 10 to 15 seconds between each use, maybe even 20. It should be used only by those with at least Novice Medic (not everyone is intelligent enough to use a Fire Extingisher...pull pin, point, shoot...you'd be surprised)...A lot of heavy combat folks usally avoid getting Novice Medic....
- Move the accuracy of the FT from the flame tree to another tree...This is a very strategic move...Make Novice Commando give +30 accuracy...this way Dabblers will have a secondary weapon they can use for a DoT, but the accuracy will mean they won't connect all the time...And those who get the 2 trees or more for the DoT and the accuracy will have less pts invested elsewhere which typically leads to strategic vunerabilities....Tac I know you say that people will have no issues just grabbing another tree, but I have to disagree...some will have no problem, other's will have major problems deciding what to give up...and if the FT is not the primary weapon, they won't want to make the effort...
- Get within 16m of them
- Take a ton of damage while waiting to fire agian
Make Flamesingle2 and flamecone2 stack with eachother only. The others would be non-stackable. Then, in addition to the Chef food, reduce the wounds, and add BE components that add a fire deffense, which would improve the wearers chances of avoiding the DOT all together (like bleed deffense). Masters would be the only ones that could stack DOTs, this would allow masters to still be effective in PvE but not so much in PvP, and the BE components would be a better adittion then fire extinguishers, unless fire extinguishers required a combat medic's skill box.
In all, this reduces the number of DOT stackers, reduces the chances of DOTs being lethal, increases the deffenses other players can obtain in order to combat the DOTs, and yes a guy with chef food, BE enhanced clothes, and a combat medic friend with a fire extinguisher CAN be pretty hard for commandos to kill. But they are still vulnerable to commandos in another way, the LP.
I can see why our DOT needs fixing, and I noticed that alot of the commandos crying out against it don't realize that it really is too powerful for PvP, dispite its difficulty to apply.
LordSeckmoth wrote:
Okay, we all know about the announcement of the Fire Extinguisher, it's been said and is out there now. But what is the reason this is such a huge issue? No it's not the nerf screams, or other professions trying to wreck ours, it IS the DoT it's self. We have just gotten used to something quite a bit more powerful, and now seeing it taken away.
Now as it stands, this would only effect PvP, but why is it such a horrible problem in PvE? I believe it is the fact that our Fire DoT can incap and keep doing so until that player is dead. Also it's the number of wounds done that keep heals from being useful. Yes there are other DoT's out there that need work too, but we are here for ours, so this is what I propose to make it a little better:
- Remove DoT wounds *or reduce them a lot more* from PvP
- Fix the Fire DoT incapping in PvP
Now making it so the FIre Extinguisher is useable by only a specific profession; and takes multiple applications to get rid of the DoT, would be easier for us to get. We'll still deal the massive damage, and our burn will still hurt a lot, but it won't be a killer no matter what.
What do you guys think about this solution? *Please keep it positive guys; a response here would be great*
My thoughts:
(1) Remove dot wounds? No...all dots do heavy wounds... My thought would be that the wound % be lowered so it does maybe 50% of the current wounds.
(2) Fix the fire dot incapping? I don't see any real problem with this.
Here is a radical idea that may fix part of the problem... Every single special we have for the flamer has a flame dot...and that flame dot is renewed every time we shoot. Also, it can't be stacked anymore.
What if devs jsut made the flame dot last 1 to 2 minutes and then burn out? This would fix the problem on places on tat, would guarantee that it can't be immediately healed, and wouldn't effect us that much ( because we renew it every time we shoot). Doesn't this fix all the devs concerns?
garvin wrote:
Tac there is a problem with your logic...Re-Read TH's replies...He made himself a Master and experienced the issues...Moving the DoT to Master won't mean a thing to him...he'll still see a problem with the DoT overall...
It's not an issue about how many people are using it, it's about how it's being used and the issues associated with it once it's applied...Even if only Master's could apply the DoT it would still be just as much of an issue in PvP...
LordS, while you suggestions are valid, they don't solve the issues...
I have been making several similar and not so similar suggestions for over a monthnow...
Specific changes for PvP:
- Fix the incapp issue...currently when someone get's incapp'd by the Fire DoT, as soon as they get up, the Burn immediately hits them again for another incapp...this is a BUG....it needs to be fixed...when someone get's back up, the timer should start over giving them time to deal or get off another few shots....Or even the timer should be made longer to give them more time to deal.
- An item like a Fire Extingisher should be added to the game...but it needs restrictions...it must be used 3 times to put out a DoT at least...each use reduces the DoT's burn effect. It should also have a timer of at least 10 to 15 seconds between each use, maybe even 20. It should be used only by those with at least Novice Medic (not everyone is intelligent enough to use a Fire Extingisher...pull pin, point, shoot...you'd be surprised)...A lot of heavy combat folks usally avoid getting Novice Medic....
For PvP and PvE:
- Move the accuracy of the FT from the flame tree to another tree...This is a very strategic move...Make Novice Commando give +30 accuracy...this way Dabblers will have a secondary weapon they can use for a DoT, but the accuracy will mean they won't connect all the time...And those who get the 2 trees or more for the DoT and the accuracy will have less pts invested elsewhere which typically leads to strategic vunerabilities....Tac I know you say that people will have no issues just grabbing another tree, but I have to disagree...some will have no problem, other's will have major problems deciding what to give up...and if the FT is not the primary weapon, they won't want to make the effort...
Removing the Stacking is a valid idea to protect our opponents but it does to much drastic damage to our capabilities when we don't have anything to fall back on...it's just not the best solution...I understand TH's issue with a Commando DoT'ing multiple creatures and running, but that's our strategy...we have a timer, it means that to DoT multiple NPCs or players, we have to:
- Get within 16m of them
- Take a ton of damage while waiting to fire agian
A Commando who has DoT'd a number of NPC's as accomplished a major task...to stack those DoTs is another impressive accomplishment...remove the accuracy as mentioned above and increase the timer and you make it even more difficult...that solves that issue right there...Adding a restricted Fire Extingisher also means that when playing PvP, but the time we can get around to stacking a DoT, the first DoT could already be severly weakened or already out (remember we have to get them into range again...running out of range to use the Extingisher 3 times is a valid strategy...
Sigh, it's not the dabblers that are the problem. Moving the DoT to master only would give everyone else the shaft when it comes to commando. Let's wait till we see what they have planned during combat balancing before calling for something so drastic. Don't give dabblers the shaft - this game is all about dabbling.
For the short-term though, LordS' suggestions are adequate I'd say. The big deal seems to be how the DoT sticks around after incap more than anything else.
- Remove DoT wounds *or reduce them a lot more* from PvP
- Fix the Fire DoT incapping in PvP
Now making it so the FIre Extinguisher is useable by only a specific profession; and takes multiple applications to get rid of the DoT, would be easier for us to get. We'll still deal the massive damage, and our burn will still hurt a lot, but it won't be a killer no matter what.
What do you guys think about this solution? *Please keep it positive guys; a response here would be great*
Move the dot to master box.
flamebox1=flamesingle1 with no dot
box2=flamecone1 with no dot
box3=flamesingle2 with no dot
box4=flamecone2 with no dot
master= flamesingle3 and flamecone3 (flame3=flame2 WITH dot)
This nerf is upon us because there were HORDES, HORDES! of grenadeer4's spamming flamethrower dots all over, in both pvp and pve.
this will be my last post on the matter or this forum for that matter.
The flame dot issue was discussed almost a whole month before this fiasco began, before Thunderheart (who did not even MENTIONING jack **edit** about a fire extinguisher in this forum) pushed for a fire extinguisher.
Whatever feedback the commando community has given its been posted in the commando forums for a long, long time. It has been ignored. What's worse, the commando community itself is apparently not even worthy of being asked for feedback on something that significantly affects them. TWICE (2.5x melee penalty, now the coming nerfs) What else is there to say? We cant bend over any further, the chainsaw is too deep past the sphynxter.
This wouldn't be the issue it is becoming if ANYTHING else in the Commando skill set actually worked.
Honestly, I'm not being negative for it's own sake...I just don't see any use in considering changes to Commando, good or bad, until our full skill set is working as intended.
It's like trying to evaluate how fast a race car with three wheels is... what's the point?