Commando Archive
Thread: The Death of Commando...
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BRAYNEDRAYNE
Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:17 pm
#1
Something just occured to me...
This applies to both Commando and Bounty Hunter...
Commando and Bounty Hunter are the only professions that can gain directbonuses from professions that are not their pre-requisites. Bounty Hunter can get bonuses from Pistoleer, Smugglerand Carbineer and Commando can get bonuses from Smuggler and Pistoleer. There are even posts around saying thatCommandos should get more bonuses from Rifles, Carbines etc (to make up for the fact we have terrible mods at novice).
You may be asking what is wrong with this...
If the point of the combat rebalance is to make all the combat professions (more or less) equal. Commando and Bounty Hunter CAN be very much better than usual by taking skills from elite professions. This means that to keep everything fair a master Commando/Bounty Hunter would have to be worse than any other master combat profession. This would penalize people who wished to be Bounty Hunter or Commando but did not want to spend points in Pistoleer etc. This would also mean that the ACTUAL price of mastering each of these professions would be astronomical.
This situation is totally hypothetical and i may be completely wrong and the DEVs may think that the skill point cost offsets anything but still i would like someone to confirm or allay my fears...
cornbredx
Sat Oct 09, 2004 7:45 pm
#2
Wish I knew the answer to this but Im not technically knowledgeable or do i know enough about it to answer. If Garvin gets around to it, I hope he answers this question. Im kinda curious what the answer is.
StarNick
Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:25 pm
#3
It is logical save 1 thing:
It still takes nearly double the amount of skillpoints it takes to master a standard elite.
Commandos and BHs would naturally be stronger and more unique than standard elites, but also have an option to tack on elite skills to make themselves have more of an edge. This would be the perk of being a commando or BH...an elite can spend the same amount of SP in elite skills than a commando would, BUT they wouldn't have that specialized uniqueness that the commando has invested in.
This is how I see it in simple words...garvin most likely has a more detailed explanation (or better one)...
BRAYNEDRAYNE
Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:28 am
#4
I can see where youre coming from...
But maybe the DEV's will decide that being able to multi-skill so effectively is worth the extra points and make master Commando/Bounty Hunter equal to any other skill class at master...
Calhen
Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:04 pm
#5
and really, BH or Commando being equal to Rifleman or Swordsman or TKA or Fencer etc. would be quite a change, wouldnt it? As of right now, both of these professions are pretty lacking compared to "normal" elites.
garvin
Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:18 pm
#6
I hope this answers the question (as much as I'm allowed to answer) according to the Revamp...
The key, at least for me, is to first see this game as skill points instead of profession...The more skill points you spend the better you get...So a 169pt player will be stronger (in some direction) then a 92pt player...
Once you understand the point issue, you can then apply profession titles and roles over that...
That's what I mean when I say that a 169pt Commando will (hopefully if all goes right) better then a 92pt Rifleman...But a 169pt Rifleman should be able to complete as well or better hten a 169pt Commando depending on the situation (close range a Commando will kick a Rifleman's butt, but at range a 169pt Rifleman will dominate...And this can further be expanded to say that a 250pt Commando should kick a 169pt Rifleman's butt at both ranged and melee distance...
Each "profession" or "template" will have a specific role they are more focused on...They should dominiate in that role, but once they get out of that role, they could be dominated over when competing against a template of the same strength...
This is where "template" building will become very important after the revamp...Do you want to be able to deal with ranged opponents better?If so, what are you willing to sacrifice?Or would you rather be unstopable at Melee range, but keep that weakness against ranged attackers...
The hardest part of the Revamp (looks around for TH to come swooping down on me) is the fact that we will have to give up the idea of being a 169pt Commando and wanting that 169pt to get us so much more...Instead we'll have to see ourselves spending 169pt to be a Master Commando and get everything that comes with that expenditure, then seeing the remaining points being used to BETTER that Master Commando with some strategic choices...We have to move beyond seeing professions defines by their skill point cost (a 92 pt Rifleman or a 169 pt Bounty Hunter) but rather all profession have 250 pt Potential...
To further expand on the notion of "dominating in your role"...roles will change how you want to them to change...and you will decide your role by how you spend your skill points (whether you want a ranged role, a melee role, a combo of them both, a role of keeping opponents unable to attack, a role of acting as support for your group, etc...you mix and match to create your role)...
I hope that makes sense...if that doesn't answer your question let me know and I'll try to better answer it...I honestly feel like Commandos aren't losing anything in the Revamp...just the opposite, we are getting many improvements at home as well as gaining the ability to improve on that beyond our 169 pt down payment...
Message Edited by garvin on 10-10-2004 02:26 PM
BRAYNEDRAYNE
Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:59 pm
#7
well my question is, will Commando and Bounty Hunter get nerfed to stop other profs complaining because thaey could easily become the best combat profs by expending more points?
The thing is, if commando/bh became clearly the best com prof (as it should do, taking the most points), evereyone else would complain.
garvin
Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:35 pm
#8
BRAYNEDRAYNE wrote:
well my question is, will Commando and Bounty Hunter get nerfed to stop other profs complaining because thaey could easily become the best combat profs by expending more points?
The thing is, if commando/bh became clearly the best com prof (as it should do, taking the most points), evereyone else would complain.
There is no NERF of Commando or BH planned as far as I know...in fact, both are getting some love in make them worth the 169 pt required investment...If a 92 pt rifleman complains that a 169 pt Commando is too powerful then I can already hear the Dev respons..."Spend the additional points to get to 169 and see if they still feel as powerful...also try using strategy"...
The key thing is 169 pts, spent in combat related professions, should always be more powerful than 92 prts spent in combat related professions...any arguement of complaint against that is pretty much voided since they too will be able to spend up to 169 pts to better themselves and become more equal...
Our chief role will still be (if not more) the heavy hitters of the game...we'll just be getting some tweaks and additions that insure, hopefully, that our 169 pt investment earns us certain balances over a 92 pt investment.
Any better of an answer?
Akoarum
Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:38 pm
#9
Wow brotha....I gotta tell ya Garvin...it's been awhile man and I miss seein' ya ingame.
Was on Lok the other day, watching someone use their Launcher Pistol thinking..."Hmmmm..I remember..."
Now I happen to stumble on to the Commando forums, see your name all over and think..."Here he is!"
And (so this doesn't appear to be a completely irrelevant post to this thread) your second post really clarifies things for me. In fact, it may even be the key fact that sends me back to the Way of the Flamethrower again...
Keep up the good work Garvin!
BRAYNEDRAYNE
Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 am
#10
im glad you could answer my question... Its really put my mind at rest
Btw, wen i sed nerf i didnt mean make worse but make equal, if you know what i mean.
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