Commando Archive
Thread: Weapons changes are inadequate -- number crunching inside
Put on your Math hats. I'm a number cruncher.
All data is from Popo's weapons on TC. Similar reesources, same manufacturer.
In order of RAW DPS, no skill mods or range to hit mods, no consideration of special moves, looking at ONLY weapons that have infinite use...
vs AR0
Scout Blaster 53 (pistol)
Laser Rifle 52 (rifle)
LLC 49 (BH HW)
HAR 45
Flamethrower 41
Launcher Pistol 38
Power5 31
vs AR1
LR 41
LLC 39
SB 26
HAR 22
F 20
LP 19
P5 15
Beyond AR2, the order doesn't change. LR's AP2 improves it's damage vs. ours. We are being out-damaged by a weapon anyone that spends 20 Skill Points on can use! And this is AFTER your glorious weapon change! Now do you see why I was cynical about the upcoming change?
Adding in Weapon Speed modifiers, a Master Pistoleer has +84 Weapon speed, while we have +55 on the HAR for Master Commando.A Pistoleer's DPS increases MORE from Skills than ours does. In terms of Special Moves, I'm not going to count all the Pistoleer moves... suffice it to say that using any of their Pistols, they can knock a combatant down, at least double their damage, hit just the Health pool, DoT, hit mutliple targets... I don't know where to end, Meanwhile the HAR can only do DoT's and Area attacks.
When considering expendable weapons, the HPBC has excellent DPS (177 vs0, 142vs1), but as an expendable, high resource weapon, you'll not be using it nightly. ASL and LBC are inferior (70's and 80's), to the point of being almost 1/2 the damage of the HPBC. These have NO special moves, can only use the default attack, and can not be used to concentrate on a single pool. It might be possible that we would have a slight edge in DPS once Special move DPS increases factor in, but I am highly doubtful.
Now excuse me, but we drop nearly double the Skill points of a Pistoleer or Rifleman on Combat. Shouldn't we be doing SIGNIFICANTLY more damage on a regular basis than these other classes? Given that our profession requires more than 5x in pre-requisites (all of which are redundant with each other), is not allowed to advance in the previously trained weapons, must restart at Novice Commando to play as if completely untrained for a 5th time (but fight things that a regular Specialist must), and cannot master any other but basic and redundant combat professions, our Combat strength should be much higher than that of the single weapon specialists.
We should not be outdamaged by a Master Dancer/Master Armorsmith/Master Pistoleer combo.
Though the changes are an improvement, we've got a long way to go to being anywhere's near balanced. Yes, this change is better, but it's pathetic still. The fight with the Devs is NOT over.
Sincethey are looking for feedback on these changes, NOW is the time to fight to get these weapons balanced properly.
Granted if all of them were AP3 this would be a mute point.
Yeah man, I am very ready to heartily agree with you about these things. Earning Master Marksman and the difficult Unarmed Master takes alot of time and effort. And lets not forget Determination. I would hope that we would get some kind of reward - here's one thing that would help a little:ability to use rifle skills with HAR. Another important thing that has been brought up many times on these commando boards is our weapons' poor Armor Piercing values. Here's a problem with their current AP system that I noticed while reading the excellent novel, Black Hawk Down. One of the soldiers becomes frustrated that using his high-tech armor piercing rounds did little damage to the unarmored Somali rogues. Physically, AP rounds have so much power, and radically different design, they pass through mass very quickly. So where armor would slow them down that the damage would hit the target, lack of armor made it so the rounds passed straight through, with almost no effect. So certain weapons would be good against Armor, but others would be superior against no armor. But right now, AP just adds more dmg to lesser armored targets, which is arguably unrealistic.
Anyways, the Heavy Support Weapons should definetly have very high armor piercing ratings, especially the Rocket Launchers, Particle Beam Cannons, and stuff like that. Obviously, flamers wouldn't have much AP power, but Acid would have a little more, and Grenades, depending on the kind, would have good AP but no t as much as the huge Cannons and Launchers. Ah, who knows what the devs will do though.
I honestly hope our weapons get better real soon.
Commandoes are supposed to be the toughest combat profession with the hardest hitting weapons, whether close or long ranged.
No exceptions acceptable, period.
I'm prolly gonna spend the weekend getting my medic tree up along with some pistol xp. Might as well do something else until the new patch goes live.
Glad to have this posted yet again. Now if only someone in charge (preferably someone who gives a rip) could comprehend...
I also see what they try to do by having weapons that do more damage take longer to fire. Again, the problem is that they can only make the weapons do so much damage before they one-shot kill people. However, they keep our fire rates on our medium weapons (HAR and FT) at a high rate, and our damage fails to keep up.
They give Novice Riflemen the T21, a AR3 weapon with great damage and decent speed. We have no continuous use weapon with any AR rating other than 0. In my opinion, the Launcher Pistol should be AR 1, and the Flame Thrower and Acid Rifle should ignore AR, but not gain any bonus damage. I think the Rocket Launcher is fine, but the Particle Beam Cannon and Lighning Cannon need to be beefed up some more.
Yabari at 15 second specials we better be doing one shot kills as we in turn will bekilled while we sit there waiting for our wepaons to recharge and can not even defend ourselves..
I shot my Flamer specialin PvP once before dieing each time. I used Flame cone 1. Basically it hit a few ppl each time missing my main target many times.
The AE is where the Commando will do his/her damage and should accordingly.
Sadly tho, the Dot does not compare or last as long as a bleed from a pistol or rifle. That our AE fire bleed does massive wounds is a plus, however is offset by the fact it takes 15 seconds to fire a 2nd time with a miss rate that is totally incomprehensible..
I believe and feel if our specials are set on 15 sec timers we should:
A) hit 100% of the time at current TC Damage (since it is a blast radius and anyone standing in it SHOULD be hit).
or
B) increase the Damage even more and leave the high miss rate as is.
We should not have a High miss rate, Low damage per second vs other weapons/classes and a HIGH special recycle time all in one..that is just insane.
Bottom line is this: Commando's are AE freaks. We blow stuff up without discriminations. When we fire, ppl should know we are there and should run to get away from our AE's (right now they fall on the faces laughing at the laughable damage we do)..
I will not even go into grenades as they have MUCH work to do on those still.
Right now as it stands, the commando's only REAL weapon is the Launcher pistol for any hopes of getting any XP at all. Using any other weapon you can go and make dinner while you shoot at an undefended Lair with 10000 HP. And that using specials.
Some say the rocket launcher is the wepaon, however some galaxies have not even seen one (yeah we could buy one from the Recruiter for 5K FP). However you would have to make 50 FP per shot to even afford one, leaving you at a no win situation.
In any case the Commando has a long road ahead of him/herself. XP is not easy to get with all the "fixes" in place. There are not many non-social mobs a Commando can kill for xp and grouping as a Commando is currently a joke, as you get far less XP per kill than if you were to go and solo Diseased Nuna's on Naboo.
The Devs Promise of greater Damage on our weapons is a bone they threw at us for the time being to make us happy. The end result will be we will still have a 15 sec delay and High miss rateand low dmg per sec vs other weapons.
Flame away ( no pun intended)
bahh typo:
Some say the rocket launcher is the wepaon, however some galaxies have not even seen one (yeah we could buy one from the Recruiter for 5K FP). However you would have to make 50 FP per shot to even afford one, leaving you at a no win situation.
Should read 20 FP per shot
Wolve44 wrote:Yabari at 15 second specials we better be doing one shot kills as we in turn will bekilled while we sit there waiting for our weapons to recharge and can not even defend ourselves..
But that's the point. They have this idea that we should do lots of damage and have to wait a long time to fire between speacials or charged weapons, but they can't give us the damage to compensate for it since they don't want one-shot kills. That's what's keeping them from giveing us the damage we need. Since they can't do that, the only other choice is to quicken the speed on the weapons we have, and them we're just clones of Riflemen or Carbineers, with limited use weapons.
I think that if they want to keep our specials at 12 to 15 seconds, they need to make the damage multiplier for them x5 for Flame and Acid I, and then x10 for II. Since we can't target specific pools with that, we need to do even more damage. Also, I think that the time to throw a grenade needs to be about half of what it is now. A six second delay on throwing a grenade is just rediculous. We should just be able to pop those off one after another, for as many as we have. It's not like they do a lot of damage.
