Commando Archive

Been giving this a little thought...

The acid rifle is broken and for all purposes will never be an acid version of the flamethrower. it has no dot anyway and its unlikely SOE will give it a dot seeing how much whining there is about the fire dot already.

So insted of SOE coding new stuff for the acid rifle, why not simply make it a Rifle?

Like the launcher pistol, let the acid rifle and beam rifles BE rifles. Categorized as heavy weapons but be rifles.

Remove the acid single and acid cone attacks. Replace that with AP2 rating on the weapon.

The Acid Rifle is highly inaccurate at ranges past 20m, so you will hardly see people outperforming riflemen with them. Itd be likea master rifleman using a spraystick to headshot a target at 64m.. they will miss a boatload.

Add the Beam Rifle to our arsenal. Make it be STUN damage , AP2 rifle. This weapon would be just a neutrally accurate (no negatives, but no positive mods at any range, aka +0 @ 0m +0 @30m +0 @ 64m) weapon, moderately low HAM use (since this would be the rifle we would use in conjunction with grenades). Performance wise this weapon is a less powerful but slightly more accurate at close range (commando master marksman rifle accuracy) and less accurate at long range Jawa Ion.

Tac...sometimes you really crack me up...

Remember our discussion awhile back...You mentioned removing the ability to use pistol specials with the LP (giving us our own specials for that weapon) and adding the Beam Rifle with rifle specials...at that time you were even pushing for the Beam Rifle to use rifle specials from other professions...

Well this was exactly what I was trying to get at with you....allowing our rifles to use other rifle professions specials...unless we get specials of our own, and then allow us only to use them...

It all comes back to one worrysome point that could come back to haunt us though...say we get the Beam Rifle cert (which I really hope we do)...and say it can use rifle specials from other professions...if we don't get specials of our own for that weapon we just basically have another LP...a weapon with no commando specials...and on the off chance, due to this addition, they add rifle specials to our profession & let us use rifle specials from other professions, depending on how good our specials are, we now have to deal with rifle dabblers looking to use commando specials for their prefered rifles (not saying this is a bad thing...hard to say...but this could lead to the same issuesa fewhave with people only taking the FT tree)...If we have rifle specials and they have rifle specials then all rifles can use both professions specials...it would have to be like that...is that ok with you? You can't have it just one way...this is a problem I remember you having before...

So, to sum up my babbling nonsense...Do we want commando weapons to use other's rifle specials with none of our own for these weapons? Do we want commando weapons with our own rifle specials AND able to use other profession's rifle specials, given that they will be able to use our rifle specials as well? OR do we want commando weapons withourown rifle specials and only able to use our specials as to prevent dabblers looking for more rifle specials? These are the questions that need to be considered on this issue...Which is the best case scenario?

At this point, I would be content for a while if the HAR got fixed.

It hit's as hard as a Flamethrower and I think could be used side-by-side with it especially on fire-proof things (rancors, etc.). You hit the thing with a flameSingle. Then it's starts burning. To help it to its death, you hose it down with some acid. I typically hit between 4500-6500 points in PvE with my HAR. If the accuracy/speed thing was fixed, I would be even more dangerous.

I wouldn't be too happy with changing the HAR to a rifle-type weapon.

ah but garvin, what we were arguing was to allow rifle specials with commando rifles and disallow launcher pistol from being used by pistol specials (and of course, commando getting launcher specials and accuracy and speed odsin commando trees, but those specials would be more utility and not damage).

The reason for that was that commando does not have a better rifle than a laser or T21 in their inventory (acid rifle is horridly inaccurate past 20m, beam rifle has the stats of a tusken rifle)... but we do have a much more powerful pistol than pistoleers do (as fast as any pistol, damage is above the norm damage in other pistols and to boot the launcher has no negative accuracy mods at long ranges!). A pistoleer with novice commando tag will do horrendous damage, even outdamaging a rocket launcher. Thats absolutely insane.

The whole problem lies not in the specials of each proffessions, its in the weapons. Im sure a pistoleer would LOVE to have a Scatter Pistol, for he would have much better firepower with it than with their DXs or FWGs or Repub. Blasters when used along with pistoleer specials and mods. But they cant, fora reason. The LP is a blast damage scatter for all purposes, but they can get access to it... and to add salt to the wound, its a damage type which is the core of our anti-vehicle niche: blast. LP+Pistoleer = better than commando in antivehicle duties. Especially vs atst.

Do I want commando to use other weapon specials? Yes. We're master marksmen for a reason. Beam and Acid Rifles are rifles.. and the acid rifle is an utter failure asa heavy weapon, even if they fixed the accuracy and speed it'd still suck.

Perhaps give both the commando and the BH something 'above master marksman' for their skillsets? Like /aim3 or /overchargeshot3 /coverfire (carbineer supression fire2 but single target not aoe) , take cover2 (commando kneels and takes cover instead of prone, so commando/bh gets less overall range defense bonus than when using take cover1, but he can kneel and not lose accuracy with heavy weapons) and give them the equivalent of a master brawler lunge2 but for range weapons : full salvo (similar to full auto single in carbineer but usable with all weapons.. so its like the TKA/Master Brawler thing, the master brawler can KD..so can the TKA. Full Salvo would have a chance of causing stun and blind and dizzy).

I posted this because last night I got my 3.5spd acid rifle and went hunting with it alone... even though my accuracy was bad because of broken mods,the weapon itself in normal fire was useless. I got to that conclusion using my flamer's speed and accuracy but putting the damage my acid rifle did in its stead. So a flamer hitting for 1400 damage, random ham bar every 2.5 seconds compared to the acid rifle hitting 600 to 900 max every 2 seconds (3.5spd should go down to 2 seconds if the mods worked) was real bad since the accuracy mods in the acid are in the negative 100's at 64m and bad at midrange and just barely in the positives under 20m.

However, if I could use rifle specials with it, the weapon would get the boost of rifle accuracy stats, the rifle aiming (bonus when using /aim with rifle) mods. itd become a mediocre ranged weapon at best, but at least it'd be useful since Id definetely fire that over a laser rifle or T21 because of acid damage. And when I needed stun id get my beam, which is worse than a jawa damage wise buta bit better accuracy mod wise. It doesnt make us better than riflemen in any sense.. even IF the riflemen could use our weapons they'd be better off using theirs. Not so with the pistoleer.

The whole problem lies not in the specials of each proffessions, its in the weapons.

I disagree here whole heartedly...it's both ways...not just one...You say pistoleers might come to our profession to get a better weapon...but I also think they would come to our profession even if we had a weaker weapon, but a better special...for example, say they reduced the LP down to weaker then the FWG5...then take the best Pistoleer special (what ever you believe that is) and move it to the commando profession...Pistoleers would still dabble in Commando to get that special if it was good enough...skill pt usage would not be an issue...they'd want that special...it's not always about the weapons...Does a Pistoleer dabble in Smuggler for just the weapons? Do we dabble in Pistoleer for the weapons or for specials? Obviously...for the specials (mainly because we don't have any pistol specials of our own)...

So back to your complaint from that other thread (and sorry to have to revisit this) you were upset at that time with pistol folks dabbling in commando to get our LP...you wanted that route cut off to them by making the LP a non-pistol special using weapon...for it to have it's own unique specials...But just like back then you want a commando rifle to use other's rifle specials...

What's the difference between a really good weapon that causes dabbling and a really good special that causes dabbling...What's the difference between Pistol folksdabbling in Commando to get a pistol weapon and us dabbling in Rifleman to get rifle specials? Sure we all have marksman skills that should cross over, but can we really have in one way with out the other?

I'm not saying your idea is bad...in fact I wish we could use rifle specials...the problem is that we may not be examining the bigger picture and the ramifications of this actually happening...would you old arguements come back to be used against you....

garvin, if I dabble in rifleman or pistoleer to get their specials I have to get novice PLUS more of their boxes. Granted, bleed 2 is nice, but not useful if i dont have the pistoleer accuracy or i'll end up spamming that thing until it finally hits. same with rifle.

My problem with pistoleers is that they get access to a BLAST damage weapon.

Pistoleer+novice commando = better than a master commando taking down the commando's class defining targets: vehicles (atsts and blast vulnerable creatures too). So then again, whats this rocket launcher thing for? LP+stopping shot >>>>> rocket launcher.

In your same scenerio let me ask this...has anyone ever taken down an ATST with just an LP? Master Pistoleers included? Especially since the patch?

Maybe they are good with our LP...better then us...but isn't that one of the reason we are pushing for fixes to that weapon? Our own specials, mods and basically making it a non pistol weapon? But even if we get all we want but keep it as a pistol weapon usable by Pistoleers, are they as capable overall as we are when fighting ATSTs...as far as I know, the Rocket Launcher (before it went buggy) is still a better weapon when fighting ATSTs (at least to start)...A Pistoleer can use Stopping Shot on an ATST, but they are still going to get shot at distance by those metal chickens...

And as for rifles...The rifleman tree (according to a site that I don't think is very up to date), one tree of Rifleman gives you +30 rifle accuracy and +24 rifle speed. Lately I have seen a rise in rifle mod attachments and many of them +4 or +5....There are 8 pieces of standard armor (not including a belt or undershirt)...each piece of armor (starting about 2 patches ago) comes with 1 to 4 sockets (random when the armor is made)...Those sockets could allow you to easily add enough mods that you could be as good as the accuracy tree of that profession, but probably not master...so technically, I could get the best specials tree of Rifleman and be just as good as a rifleman who got 2 trees...is that fair? I bought or found attachments that allow me to be as good without using as much skill pts...

Anyway...we are getting way off topic...sorry about that...Back to "should Commando Rifles use Rifle Specials?"...my response to that is that it would be cool...but if we push for that are we hurting ourselves in the end...ask yoruself, why do we have no specials for the LP? My guess is that we don't have specials for the LP because of a tired Dev who didn't want to create them...so in the end he just allowed the LP to use other pistol specials...and this is one of the reasons the Dev's aren't in any hurry to add commando specials to the LP...in their minds we've already got them via Smuggler and Pistoleer...So, if that's even remotely close to the truth, could allowing commando rifles to use rifle specials lead to the Dev's not creating any viable Commando rifle specials since they will figure "if they want them, let them go to rifleman or use what they got in Master Marksman"? Could this idea come back and haunt us in this way and give us another weapon with no specials of our own?

garvin its easier for SOE to just let the heavy rifles use rifle specials and the LP use pistol specials. or, as I would prefer it, easier for them to code specials for one gun (LP) than for 2 guns (heavy rifles).

Hey, thats a good name to rename the HAR tree into.. Heavy Rifles.

as far as pistoleersvs ATST's...A pistoleer will do around 2.3k damage easy , almost per second with stopping shot. While running around.a rocket launcher does 5k damage (highest ive seen so far after patch). has to kneel.2.3k * 6 = 13.8k damage. RL in 6 secs=5k. AP0 vs AR2 vulnerable to damage type... ap3 vs AR2 vulnerable to damage type.

is the RL underpowered? yes.

Is the LP useless in the hand of a commando vs atst? yes

is the LP better than the RL in the hands of pistoleer ? yes.

can commandos take novice X elite proffession's weapon andtake over their job using commando specials? no.

and remember, launcher pistol is of much better accuracy than any other pistol, with the average LP having 0mod at 64 and low positives or low negatives in short and middle range (depends on crafter). Its an FWG5 with exotic damage type that hasmuch better accuracy stats.

can commandos take novice X elite proffession's weapon andtake over their job using commando specials? no.

you know how to push my buttons so well tak......you missed what I said again (I know I bury it in to much babble)...I said that comamndos can take 1 tree of an elite profession like Rifleman (you pick the one with the best specials) and be at least as good as a rifleman who took the same rifleman tree + took the tree with all the accuracies and such...this is thanks to adding mods instead of doing the xp grind....Wasn't talking about a Commando just getting the novice level of X profession.

Think of it this way...remember back to when we were thinking about what to do with our remaining skill points...I was considering 3 boxes of pistoleer or smuggler to get those nice specials...If I had done that, I could have pumped up on pistol accuracy & speedskill mods in the form of armor attachments to be close to or as good as a high level pistoleer. I wouldn't have had to get any more pistoleer boxes to accomplish this...I'd just have to wear my armor...and then I'd have the accuracy, I'd have the speed, and I'd have those 3 nice specials....

Ahh...but there are other ways to get accuracy and speed for pistols and rifles then just taking on those elite professions...you don't have to move up the ranks...

First off, we get some of those mods with just Master Marksman...enough that my Krayt FWG5 has served me well....better in fact then my Krayt LP (so much so that I never equip my LP, just my FWG5)...I no longer have Pistoleer, but I still use /healthshot1 on occasion...I use to have some of Pistoleer just for the specials and I rarely miss my shots with the pistol. So the marksman mods are good enough to get me by atleast on the pistol (and I wasn't to shabby with the rifle when I was gaining xp there as well to get to novice rifleman)....

Second off, there are skill attachments that grant pistol accuracy, rifle accuracy, pistol speed, rifle speed, etc. to the point where you can be prettycapable with those weapons, even if you aren't very high in that profession. Just recently I have found a pistol accuracy +7, pistol speed +4and a several rifle mods...if I keep search or turn to the trade forums I could get more...of course this is not the easy way, but with the right numbers and socketed armor you can go pretty high...

So these 2 things rule out the part of your arguement that states "Granted, bleed 2 is nice, but not useful if i dont have the pistoleer accuracy or i'll end up spamming that thing until it finally hits. same with rifle" because you can get those accuracies other ways besides just going up trees (you should see the set of armor I'm building via mods like these).

So if we wanted to, through the right channels and a bit of luck finding the right mods, we could be just as good with a pistol or a rifle with 1 tree of those professions as someone with the same tree and the accuracy tree of the same profession.

Now if you say "let's leave skill enhancers out of this equation" you take me right back to the fact thatcurrently, even without any pistol skill mods, I rarely miss with my FWG5 and I only have Master Marksman...

try that against an atst. You will miss likea mofo.

Thats the whole point why pistoleer should not get the LP. They replace the commando just with it and their stopping shot.The only proffessions that grant pistol mods is pistoleer and BH.

master pistoleer with LP>>> master commando with any of their blast damage weapons when taking down atsts.

Which of the 2 is the antivehicle class again?

Yes, command can go get master pistoleer...to be able to use the commando weapon in the commando's defining role? Nuts.

OTH, can master commando get novice rifleman and use commando skills to outperform the rifleman in long range combat while using a rifle (even the acid rifle or beam rifle the way I ask)? No. Can master commando get novice pistoleer and use commando skills to beat the pistoleer using a pistol in midrange/short combat? no.

the whole thing is disturbing.

Oh sure Tac, I see how you are. Wait till Techno starts with pistoleer for LP and then say get rid of the ability to use those skill mods with LP. lol

How bout this. We get to use rifleman specials and mods if we take the skil with beam rifle, which from what I've seen has weak stats in comparison to other rifles, and acid rifle, like you said, but then leave pistoleer work for LP also the way it is. That way you can choose whether you are a commando that specializes in the rifles a little extrat than normal commandos, or the LP a little more than normal commandos.

Then, here is what I like best for an idea, along with the other professions we take mods working, as a bonus for master commando, give the master commando a +40 to LP, HAR, and beam rifle accuracy then something for speed (for our weapons only not for the regular pistols and rifles). That would give us the choice of learning rifle or pistol and becoming wickedly awesome with those weapons. FT dablers would still have their power but would bow at the feet of the master commando, master pistoleer/rifleman. Muahaha.

OK, so maybe that would be a little overboard, but it sure would be nice