Commando Archive
Thread: Could a commando tell me....
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SilentSaber
Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:00 am
#1
... The average stats on all the grenade types. Looking to get grenades to reinforece my template vs Jedi, but can only get Cryoban without denting my other skillsets. Any ideas plz?
BloodMonk
Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:13 am
#2
use this as reference:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=61082
my advice: acklay glops, and maybe damage sliced proton's (but they'll hurt you too)
Sly
superbike
Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:41 am
#3
SilentSaber wrote:
... The average stats on all the grenade types. Looking to get grenades to reinforece my template vs Jedi, but can only get Cryoban without denting my other skillsets. Any ideas plz?
i dont think cryobans are the answer. im at school and cant tell you the exacts buy my cryo's are in the 600-700 max dam range. they are ar1 and cold damage. the c22 is blast damage and ar1 and i believe mine are pushing 1400-1600 max damage. jedi wears no armor. dont waste your time on the cryo and just keep with the c22. as for the glops, i personally dont use them and dont know what they do damage wise. i think acid but i hear they are a pain to make. /shrug
BloodMonk
Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:37 pm
#4
imo glop > C22 for jedi and here's why:
max damage glop > C22 (by 100-200)
glops blast radius =2m, C22=7m
glop=ap0 C22=ap1
AP1 gives no advantage on a jedi as they don't have any armor, that together with the smaller blast radius of glops makes them much less likely to hurt you, and if they hurt you you'll take less damage due to the AP0 nature of glops (assuming you wear armor)
Sly
max damage glop > C22 (by 100-200)
glops blast radius =2m, C22=7m
glop=ap0 C22=ap1
AP1 gives no advantage on a jedi as they don't have any armor, that together with the smaller blast radius of glops makes them much less likely to hurt you, and if they hurt you you'll take less damage due to the AP0 nature of glops (assuming you wear armor)
Sly
Chabian
Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:13 pm
#5
Well, if you really want to use Grenades, just use Thermal Detonators.
They are blast damage, 1100 - 2200+ ,they have AP2, and they hover around the 2.5 - 3.8 second speed range.
Good luck hitting a Jedi, I did extensive testing with a Jedi friend and he just hit them like Johnny Damon
- Takai
They are blast damage, 1100 - 2200+ ,they have AP2, and they hover around the 2.5 - 3.8 second speed range.
Good luck hitting a Jedi, I did extensive testing with a Jedi friend and he just hit them like Johnny Damon
- Takai
BloodMonk
Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:21 am
#6
I hit about 8 times out of 10 on a jedi knight.....and the AP2 are almost the worst choice for jedi (remember, jedi have NO armor).
My 7k max glops do the job nicely
Chabian
Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am
#7
AP2 does do "something".... It gives you a 2x damage modifier to the target your hitting.
Go back and check out some of the numbers people have posted about AP on non-armored and armored targets.
- Takai
BloodMonk
Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:24 am
#8
from the WS forum:
"AP:2 vs AR:0
Time to bring out the big guns. Bob, realizing that he was doing so little damage to Joe has decided to become a pikeman. He picks up a master made Long Vibro Axe which is reported to do an awesome 100 damage per hit! Before using his weapon on Joe, Bob decides to test it out on a kreetle (AR0, 10% resists to kinetic). Bob, sneaks up on the kreetle and lashes out with his new Vibro Axe, dealing 100 points of damage. In Bob's combat window we see the same 100 damage we always see. However, over the kreetle's head the number 140 is displayed. The kreetle dies.
What is going on here: When you attack at target that has a lower AR than your AP level and is not vulnerable to your damage type (remember, a completely unarmored player is treated as being vulnerable to all damage types), you receive a bonus depending on the degree to which your AP is greater than the target's AR. For each step your AP is greater than the target's AR, the damage you do is multiplied by 25%. So, against a target with AR0 (assuming it has no vulnerablility to that damage type), you receive a 25% bonus to damage. Likewise, when using an AP 2 weapon against an AR) target with no vulnerability to that damage type, the bonus is 56% (125% + 25%(125%). Finally, when using an AP3 weapon against an AR0 target with no vulnerabilities to that damage type, you receive a 95% bonus to damage (156% + 25%(156%). Note that resistances still apply- so in the case of the kreetle, the damage bonus resulted in total damage of 156 that was then reduced by 10% (16 points). Note that when attacking mobs that don't have a particular damage type listed as either a resist or a vulnerability you will generally see the bonus added in."
jedi are considered vulnerable to EVERY damage type so no AP bonus (which isn't X2 btw).
I also tried it myself: throwing the AP2 nades and protons at people in comp AND at jedi: the AP1 protons outdamaged the AP2 nades every time
Sly
"AP:2 vs AR:0
Time to bring out the big guns. Bob, realizing that he was doing so little damage to Joe has decided to become a pikeman. He picks up a master made Long Vibro Axe which is reported to do an awesome 100 damage per hit! Before using his weapon on Joe, Bob decides to test it out on a kreetle (AR0, 10% resists to kinetic). Bob, sneaks up on the kreetle and lashes out with his new Vibro Axe, dealing 100 points of damage. In Bob's combat window we see the same 100 damage we always see. However, over the kreetle's head the number 140 is displayed. The kreetle dies.
What is going on here: When you attack at target that has a lower AR than your AP level and is not vulnerable to your damage type (remember, a completely unarmored player is treated as being vulnerable to all damage types), you receive a bonus depending on the degree to which your AP is greater than the target's AR. For each step your AP is greater than the target's AR, the damage you do is multiplied by 25%. So, against a target with AR0 (assuming it has no vulnerablility to that damage type), you receive a 25% bonus to damage. Likewise, when using an AP 2 weapon against an AR) target with no vulnerability to that damage type, the bonus is 56% (125% + 25%(125%). Finally, when using an AP3 weapon against an AR0 target with no vulnerabilities to that damage type, you receive a 95% bonus to damage (156% + 25%(156%). Note that resistances still apply- so in the case of the kreetle, the damage bonus resulted in total damage of 156 that was then reduced by 10% (16 points). Note that when attacking mobs that don't have a particular damage type listed as either a resist or a vulnerability you will generally see the bonus added in."
jedi are considered vulnerable to EVERY damage type so no AP bonus (which isn't X2 btw).
I also tried it myself: throwing the AP2 nades and protons at people in comp AND at jedi: the AP1 protons outdamaged the AP2 nades every time
Sly
Chabian
Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:37 pm
#9
I guess being an old school vet - my memory has faded or the damage modifiers have changed.
I however disagree about nades being effective against jedi. At optimal conditions, a grenade with 2200max damage is going to do 500-600 damage. Now take into account these factors: Does the Jedi have ranged defense? Is the Jedi using force armor? Is the Jedi a master saber specialist? If so, he does 85% saber block. If you double that number with the Acklay enhanced venom, a powerup, and a damage slice you may do 1k damage. But even then, what Jedi isn't buffed when fighting? Don't recall ever seeing a non-buff'd Jedi on Wanderhome in the middle of a fight where a single Glop grenade would make the difference of stopping these God Mode creatons.
What it boils down to is this, A pistoleer using last ditch can do the same amount of damage every second with no latency in waiting for the combat queue to clear. Using grenades against any moderatly skilled Jedi is worthless. A good power hammer will get you a lot further than any grenade will.
If grenades had a 90% hit rate, with a 25m blast radius that had intimidate2 like state effects, it might be worth while.... but even then, it's just not worth it in my opinion. Personaly, Jedi have pretty much ruined what once was great about this game. I remember the 4 to 6 hour battles in Bestine and Anchorhead with swarms of faction members on each side duking out - no buffs, no armor, crappy weapons, and tons of fun. The good ol' days are just that.
Wish Garvin would throw his hat in here on this thread.
- Takai
I however disagree about nades being effective against jedi. At optimal conditions, a grenade with 2200max damage is going to do 500-600 damage. Now take into account these factors: Does the Jedi have ranged defense? Is the Jedi using force armor? Is the Jedi a master saber specialist? If so, he does 85% saber block. If you double that number with the Acklay enhanced venom, a powerup, and a damage slice you may do 1k damage. But even then, what Jedi isn't buffed when fighting? Don't recall ever seeing a non-buff'd Jedi on Wanderhome in the middle of a fight where a single Glop grenade would make the difference of stopping these God Mode creatons.
What it boils down to is this, A pistoleer using last ditch can do the same amount of damage every second with no latency in waiting for the combat queue to clear. Using grenades against any moderatly skilled Jedi is worthless. A good power hammer will get you a lot further than any grenade will.
If grenades had a 90% hit rate, with a 25m blast radius that had intimidate2 like state effects, it might be worth while.... but even then, it's just not worth it in my opinion. Personaly, Jedi have pretty much ruined what once was great about this game. I remember the 4 to 6 hour battles in Bestine and Anchorhead with swarms of faction members on each side duking out - no buffs, no armor, crappy weapons, and tons of fun. The good ol' days are just that.
Wish Garvin would throw his hat in here on this thread.
- Takai
Phaye
Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:16 pm
#10
Right now, the vulnerabilities are messed up. If someone is vulnerable to whatever damage you are doing, your ap and their armor level are both ignored. In effect, you do the damage listed on your weapon. Since a Jedi is unarmored (which means he is vulnerable to everything) your ap doesn't matter, just the damage on your weapon.
Another reason people use grenades on jedi is that they CAN NOT saber block them. So a 7k damage clop grenade would only have the PvP penalty applied to its damage, which means that ic CAN, on occasion, deal well over 1k damage. It is a nice finishing touch on a jedi when they are getting low on health.
Chabian
Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:59 pm
#11
Odd that my friends Jedi blocked my proton grenades....
I can rerun the test we did before all these recent patches to see what the combat queue says.
- Takai
I can rerun the test we did before all these recent patches to see what the combat queue says.
- Takai
Phaye
Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:57 pm
#12
Your jedi friend can always just dodge it normally with ranged(?) defense, but saber block will not come into play with throwing grenades. Its just one of those wierd things.
Chabian
Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:28 am
#13
I have spoken to other people on my server and they claim that jedi have blocked grenades as well. What happens is, in a fight, if you target someone near a Jedi - the AOE blast radius will punch right through a Jedi's defenses (providing that the Jedi is near the other person).
Im going to rerun some test later tonight and do a print screen of the combat queue to see what it brings up. I can run 3 clients at once on my machine, so i should be good for testing a one on one encounter and an AOE effect. Stay tuned.
- Tak
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