Commando Archive

Thread: Physics leason 101

hopdog
Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:24 pm
#1

ok just to go around picking peopl's brain i was wondering what you thoght of the "real" Physics in the game such as Brilyn puts melee vs ranged combat. as Brilyn puts it a heavy sword is going to hurt quit a bit when you get hit, and i believe in this game and other game's that if you have a higher str you shold do more dmg with said sword.

But, with a heavy sword or say power hammer it shold take a bit to recover from a hit like a morning star would with a dense sword as you said will do more dmg an alloyed light sword may be able to have a higher durability rate compaird with the other reg heavy sword but if it was alloyed then it would be lighter and shold do less dmg then im my mind any way. know before you say this dosnt belong in the comando's fourm it does.

If a more alloyed bullet is made wich will be lighter but more durable and thuss able to take more stress and high volicity presure more efficently it should do more dmg and have a higher AP rating in my mind.

please post what you thaink about the matter and possible ammo and melee list you thaink would work.

(also since like wep powerup's what kinds of "special" ammo would you want.)



Capt'Andrew M-comando, Loby M-munitions (Shadow Fire)

WranglerDekar
Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:09 pm
#2

I think that...YOU CAN'T BLOCK FLAME....w/o a shield at least but thats physics 112



Bloodfin - Shiver
Tempest - Wrangler
Valcyn - Teby
hopdog
Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:28 pm
#3

yes i fully agree on you on that part it would be like a jedi blocking a x-wings lasser with just a small saber or stoping a raging river with a small round shield.



Capt'Andrew M-comando, Loby M-munitions (Shadow Fire)

Brilyn
Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:37 pm
#4

< If a more alloyed bullet is made wich will be lighter but more durable and thuss able to take more stress and high volicity presure more efficently it should do more dmg and have a higher AP rating in my mind. >


Actually, a heavier slower bullet would do more damage, while a faster, tougher bullet would have greater Armour Piercing ability


Check out real-world armour-piercing rounds for standard-issue handguns: very little difference to the standard round.



Why are .45 more dangerous than the .357? Bigger bullet, similar muzzle velocity.




While I agree, in general terms, that more accuracy to physics is a good thing, there's a point where it the fun-factor begins to suffer. Somethings need to be sacrificed for the simplicity of the gameplay.



I'm not saying the 'right' things were sacrificed in this game. Just that Lightsabers make no sense.



Brilyn
Master Weaponsmith
Master Shipwright
Main vendor on Naboo, Vagabond's Rest: -1850, 2330
Secondary vendor on Talus, Kyu'mai: 250, -4680
Starsider
hopdog
Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:57 pm
#5

thats understandible. i'm not a small arms expert or anything but as military arms go they use a type of coating on the bullets for ap value and density for better percision over long rang to cover wind facter.


hey you do learn somthing from the learning channel.

*flips channel to tlc*



Capt'Andrew M-comando, Loby M-munitions (Shadow Fire)

Jhyson-Bria
Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:04 pm
#6








hopdog wrote:
thats understandible. i'm not a small arms expert or anything but as military arms go they use a type of coating on the bullets for ap value and density for better percision over long rang to cover wind facter.


Military rounds are generally jacketed with copper (where the term "full metal jacket" comes from). Most of the modern AP bullets have a teflon, or otherlow frictionsubstance bonded over a copper jacket. Denser bulletshave better wound characteristics, and penetration, butthey also has a "flatter" trajectory.


hey you do learn somthing from the learning channel.

*flips channel to tlc*








Actually there are many things that effect abullets penetration and damage characteristics and rangeIRL.Besides bullet mass, composition and shape, the physical muzzle velocity, length of barrel and amount of propellant all effect the end result.


General rule of thumb, you trade armor penetrating capability for wounding capability with comparable bullets, for example a standard9mmhollowpoint bullet fired at close range will make standardentrywound and an exitwound the size of a saucer (if it exits), devestatingthe tissue in a rough cone shape between the two points but would not be likely to penetrate a kevlar vest. While a jacketed round fired from the same weapon at the same range makes the the same sized entry and exit wound doing farless tissue damage but being much more likely to penetrate a vest.


It's all got to do with transfer of force, if a bullet transfers force well, it generally does not penetrate well. Conversely a bullet that has alot of penetration generally does not transfer force well. There ARE tricks to do with bullet composition and shapeto help overcome this though.

X-Kevlar
Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:47 am
#7

Umm... just to add something to the "physical realism" thing here:


IMO AP on a Flamethrower shouldnt really matter. Regardless of what you are wearing, you should get cooked in your armor.


But thats just me. (not the devs sadly)


Best regards



"No I am not the signature, I am just cleaning this place."
Brilyn
Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:18 am
#8

< Regardless of what you are wearing, you should get cooked in your armor. >


Tell that to the guys in the modern anti-flame/heat suits.



I think the concept of "Composite can block *everything*" was badly thought out.


I mostly use Chitin. Why? Because Gurrecks don't usually hit me for Electricity damage.....



Most people just think "hey, Composite covers everything, why buy anything else?". If things had areas of speciality, but had *radically* reduced stats to everything else, you'd see more varied armour-use.



I think AP *should* matter on the FT, and it should have Light, just so it's not needlessly losing 50% damage in PvP.



Brilyn
Master Weaponsmith
Master Shipwright
Main vendor on Naboo, Vagabond's Rest: -1850, 2330
Secondary vendor on Talus, Kyu'mai: 250, -4680
Starsider
Jhyson-Bria
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:11 am
#9






Brilyn wrote:

< Regardless of what you are wearing, you should get cooked in your armor. >


Tell that to the guys in the modern anti-flame/heat suits.



I think the concept of "Composite can block *everything*" was badly thought out.


I mostly use Chitin. Why? Because Gurrecks don't usually hit me for Electricity damage.....



Most people just think "hey, Composite covers everything, why buy anything else?". If things had areas of speciality, but had *radically* reduced stats to everything else, you'd see more varied armour-use.



I think AP *should* matter on the FT, and it should have Light, just so it's not needlessly losing 50% damage in PvP.







Dunno, FTs don't use a focused flame to damage thetarget, they cover the target in flammable liquid thats on fire so dunno about AP (difference between an oxi-acetylene torch andsplashing something with gas and igniting it).


Ireally like toseethem add another level of armor beyond heavy (none, light, meduim, heavy and very heavy), keep existing weapon AP values the same, and have the very heavy AP values restricted to ONLY Heavy Weapons (giving us a reason to exist). Fixing theAP formula to work in all situtations AND revisingthe vulnerablity formula so it's not always consideredAP0 vs AF0 but AF of weapon vs AP0.


StarNick
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:20 am
#10




Actually, a heavier slower bullet would do more damage, while a faster, tougher bullet would have greater Armour Piercing ability




Also dont forget the shape of the bullet



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nbd9k
Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:00 pm
#11

i have to say, at this point im feeling kinda bad for brilyn. he came over to show us commandos some love, and it seems we find him more and more involved in arguements about the physics of a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.


gents- its a game, programmed on a semi-half assed version of reality that incorperates technology that we couldnt even begin to approach with modern technology. weapons shoot energy bolts, which we cannot currently produce (although we have made alot of progress withthe microwave gun, should hit about 2007) but i digress. the melee weapons use vibroblades which we once again cannot simulate. the closest we come here are those nifty turkey carvers at thanksgiving. the vehicles float through use of anti gravity, which we cannot even conceive. (this is not magnetic hovering) the only technology we CAN effectively reproduce is the mandalorian jetpack, which is so rare that in the entire game, i have yet to see anyone obtain. we dont have the physics to travel through hyperspace, thoug a few people have come close to explaining it. but most of all, we have no "force" that we can manipulate in order to make stuff happen. (however, i did read a discovery magazine article about a bunch of scientists that henerated a lightsaber blade. im not kidding, they actually did it. it just took enough equipment to fill a house, and the "blade" was actually figure 8 shaped and made up of plasma, created by controling various magnetcs. )


anyway, the point was, nothing in this game uses bullets. swords are swords, but who could say what performance stats a spiffy starwars sword has? and the programming code only barely manages to reproduce some of the most basic physical laws (not even including gravity, or newton's 3rd law).


so... lets drop the whole physics thing, all be friends, and work at maknig the DEVs more aware of the screwups in the game that they really need to fix BEFORE they ruin gameplay by flooding it with jedi.


all in favor?


-harv
hopdog
Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:57 pm
#12

thats understandible. i'm not a small arms expert or anything but as military arms go they use a type of coating on the bullets for ap value and density for better percision over long rang to cover wind facter.


hey you do learn somthing from the learning channel.

*flips channel to tlc*



Capt'Andrew M-comando, Loby M-munitions (Shadow Fire)

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