Commando Archive
Thread: got it handed to me by a commando :P
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ValcynChiana
Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:38 pm
#1
well, it happened. After all the complaining i hear everyone do about commando, and because of tha complaining thinking it wasa bugged and useless profession all along, a commando in our guild (she's 2343 i believe) handed my rear end to me on a platter.
I was a master fencer at the time, not really stacking anything, had master medic as well. was kind of inbetween templates.
It was an unbuffed, unarmored duel, and her first shot (flame single 2 i believe) hit me for 3,442 damage 
i was in awe at the red numbers floating over me. Instantly incapped, and (luckily) i was able to /heal /burstrun as soon as incap ended and i ran straight to a lake.
Of course, the reason might have been that she has the best (rumored) flamethrower on valcyn. It's named the dragon's tongue, stats are:
3.2 speed
???-1200+ damage
+12 at ideal (around 3m or 0 or something i think)
I've got a flamer sitting in my house thats around 1k+ max and 4.0 speed... not quite as good but im thinking about using it again after such an incident. That happened about two weeks ago, and since then ive been working on master bounty hunter.
I've not met too many BH/commandos... but i did get lucky enough to see one in the mining outpost earlier today, struck up a conversation and learned that the flamethrower owns jedi. Most BH's (at least the smart ones) wait until the jedi is unbuffed and just sitting there, not expecting anything (usually they'll be chatting, afk, watching entertainers in the outpost, or even in line waiting for a rebuff), so pulling out 2k or more damage on an unbuffed jedi will usually hit the first time (if their saber isnt out, they dont get block)
Even if the first shot didnt kill them, the burn would, and if you miss, well, the jedi will be startled and freaked out for a few seconds, you can toss /warcry, switch to a carbine/pistol/LLC and run your ass off spamming knockdowns and damage shots. Usually against an unbuffed jedi you'll win.
So right now, im thinking about:
Master bounty hunter
Master marksman
Scout 4000
Brawler 4000
Commando 0040
Medic 0040
=247 skill points used up 
Everyone says commando is bugged, i disagree. I've dueled her (the commando that whooped me) three times so far, and lost 2/3 fights as a master fencer. The one i did win was only because i used CoB + running around like a maniac out of flamer's ideal range. I was spamming warcry 2 (was back up to master brawler that time) and once it landed i KD/dizzy'd her and beat her up. The other time i fought her, the first shot didnt kill me, and i kd/dizzy'd her, but the burn was too much and i almost triple incapped (we happened to be dueling in the middle of the nightsister stronghold while waiting for more sisters to spawn 
)
)
BravenIrish
Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:11 am
#2
ValcynChiana wrote:
So right now, im thinking about:
Master bounty hunter
Master marksman
Scout 4000
Brawler 4000
Commando 0040
Medic 0040
=247 skill points used up
Keep thinking! My boys and 0040 will be a thing of the past. Not that it won't be good...BUT maybe 4444 might be much better!
Not a bad template, IMHO, right now. With Master BH/ Typical Commando FT build, I thinkyou'll even like the LP.
Good luck!
Slainte Hybrid Bro!
TwilekKilla
Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:55 am
#3
On several occations, I've handed it to people unbuffed, /aim, /flamesingle2. Very good chance of hittting, and it hits HARD. But even buffed, a flamethrower hurts, taking around 2/3rds of their HAM, and the burn. Mix this with an accuracy experimented flamer, and you only have to worry about it hitting the Health pool to work with the burn.
Silberado
Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:26 pm
#4
Unfortunately, most people feel it’s unfair to use any flame special in a dual. I did it to a guild member who was always dueling. He always seemed to win and I would take him on just for the fun of it. To this point I never beat him. Then I got Commando and flamesingle1 and incapped him in one lucky shot. Afterwards I was told by another player that it wasn’t proper to use these specials in a dual since it could cause death. Later the guild sponsored a Dueling Contest that specifically ruled out flame special, so I was basically left out. I stopped dueling after this, didn’t want the grief.
Cpl_Fisher
Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:36 pm
#5
i have an easy solution, I don't do Non DB duels, works for me. 
The one thing about Flamethrowers, is even if you lose, the other guy still dies a lot. 
heapum
Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:03 pm
#6
Of course, the reason might have been that she has the best (rumored) flamethrower on valcyn. It's named the dragon's tongue, stats are:
3.2 speed
???-1200+ damage
+12 at ideal (around 3m or 0 or something i think)
I've got a flamer sitting in my house thats around 1k+ max and 4.0 speed... not quite as good but im thinking about using it again after such an incident. That happened about two weeks ago, and since then ive been working on master bounty hunter.
Iwish I had a flamer like that
Commando was the second combat class I have mastered in this game, five minutes after TKA. And TKA was there to augment commando. And did it ever. I have killed NS stalkers unbuffed and unarmored with only Flamer in hand and that 90 melee and 92 ranged defense stacked from TKA. Commando was the funnest combat prof in this game to me and seeing it in the state it is in now just depresses me
Sorry bout the rant, I'm done
garvin
Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:07 pm
#7
The reasons peoplefeel that Commandos are "broken" is because of what we are meant to be like and what we actually currently are...
1) We are a "ranged" professions but all of our specials are restricted to "melee range"...at the same time we have lower Melee defenses then some of the ranged professions.
2) We are easily kited to death...we can't do our massive damage attacks if we can't get our opponent into 16 to 20m range (longer range because of lag issues)...So to completely remove any "commando" threat, just keep the Commando 20m or more away from you...
3) Several elite level professions are capable of out damaging Commandos when it comes to DPS (Damage Per Second)...We are suppose to be the heaviest hitting profession, but when you factor in our speed and accuracy, you will see that by the third shot, many professions (like Rifleman and Swordsman) out damage Commandos (especially when we miss 1 out of 3 shots)...
4) Our Grenades do the user damage...If you ever face a Commando using grenades, just run towards them if you want to have fun. The grenade when thrown will explode at the range of the target,so if it's thrown while you are 20m away, if you get the Commando within 7m or so before it explodes, the Commando will take the same damage...this combined with the extremely high HAM cost can often incapp the Commando using it...Grenades are the only thrown weapon in game that damages the user (even Detonation Droids don't damage the user if caught in the blast radius)...
5) Our Consumable Launcher weapons don't meet Cost vs. Value...Right now the typical weapon like the Rocket Launcher averages 30 total shots of which only 18 or so hit their target...at a cost of 35K per RL, that's over 1.5K per shot...they also force the user to stop and kneel which puts the Commando in a very vunerable state...
6) Besides have extremely low melee and ranged defenses, we also have little to now State Defenses...The fact that, because of our specials, we are restricted to Melee range battles, we often find ourselves victims of Knockdown attacks...once on our backs, it's game over for the Commando...
7) Only one really useful weapon via the Commando trees...The Launcher Pistol (LP) doesn't come with any extra pistol mods or specials beyond Marksman, so it's only really useful to those grinding Commando (not yet 0030) or those who have dabbled other pistol related elite professions. The Heavy Acid Rifle (HAR) is a weaker clone of the FlameThrower (FT) and has not DoT, yet at the same time it's specials have a higher HAM cost then the FT. This leaves Commandos with our FT and our Consumable weapons. Consumables aren't very useful for the reasons mentions in #4 and #5 as well as the fact that you can't do any specials with them (a common misconception)...So in the end, the Commando is left with the FT for 95% of all of our fights, which, as mentioned in #2, can be nullified if the target is capable of staying at least 20m from the Commando...
So as you can see, there are plenty of ways to beat the profession that is suppose to be the HEAVIEST hitting profession in the game...it's sad when you think that Commandos have the MOST combat related pre-reqs of any profession, yet we are also one of the easiest to beat...The only hope the Commando of today has to be able to compete PvP is to dabble for more useful PvP skills, specials and defenses...
When it comes to PvE though, I strongly feel that Commando is one of the best SOLO playing clases when grouped with other high defense professions...Because NPC's rarely kite us, we usually can get off enough specials to see significant damage...combine this with good buffs and the Commando can be very formitable in PvE...
And just a side note...ALL of the issue above are being considered in the CU changes coming for Commando...we may not see all the fixes we want, but we WILL be able to play PvP on much better levels then we currently do now...
BravenIrish
Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:46 pm
#8
AMEN! Amen, amen! Can we gat an, "Amen Brother"?....forgot to tell you I hateJunk evangulesttalk! 
There's plenty of fight in the Commando soul...AMEN to THAT!
Bullcrap walks...action talks. Garvin is right. We have a lot of work to do brothers. 
Slainte
StarNick
Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:47 pm
#9
ValcynChiana....the very first thing...
You were unbuffed and unarmoured...
Commandos are positvely the BEST profession to use in an unbuffed/unarmoured fight...we can one hit kill in some cases, and even if we miss (as we usually do)...we may live long enough to get another shot off. And even the part about the jedi, unbuffed (and presumed un-force armoured) again comes to mind.
But in this day and age, do people run around unbuffed/unarmoured in PvP? No. Even in PvE, we're not all that effective due to our lack of AP (and do YOU want to spend tens of thousands on crappy consumeables that aren't all that great?)
Garvin beautifully posted exactly why commandos have seemed to whine the past 17 months. Its not because we're bugged, its because we're not complete.
Everyone says commando is bugged, i disagree. I've dueled her (the commando that whooped me) three times so far, and lost 2/3 fights as a master fencer. The one i did win was only because i used CoB + running around like a maniac out of flamer's ideal range. I was spamming warcry 2 (was back up to master brawler that time) and once it landed i KD/dizzy'd her and beat her up. The other time i fought her, the first shot didnt kill me, and i kd/dizzy'd her, but the burn was too much and i almost triple incapped (we happened to be dueling in the middle of the nightsister stronghold while waiting for more sisters to spawn
First Id like to comment about her commando lvl...notice she has Flame IV....when you Master Commando for another 43 Skillpoints...you're not much better than a Flame IV commando. In your template, even you just have Flame IV. So I ask, how can you say you disagree that commando is "bugged" (we dont feel its bugged, just incomplete/broken)...when you yourself aren't even planning on mastering it!
Also...yes our Burn really is the only thing thats still semi-worthwhile in the profession, but don't judge your look on the profession by the burn solely. Notice, you'rea Master Fencer/Master Brawler...thats not exactly the strongest of profession templates. Reality speaking, thats actually pretty weak compared to what other stacker templates you can make up - Master Commandos can't stack for one, and we do horribly against those who do in fact stack. And sadly, the best way to PvE/PvP is to stack....
Commandos have their uses but those are limited...in the above quote, you were able to CoB, Warcry 2, KD, Dizzy, and use your dodge counters. What did we have?A Burn...which with Armour and Buffs, is weak and high dmg that has no AP, and can be easily countered. MF/MB is 140 SP...MC is 169 sp...and its true power can be acquired for 126 SP...thats not saying much for commando. We all want to be versitile, to properly show our pre-reqs...thats why we feel we're broken (basically garvin's point)
Lastly...if I may add in my own little story...
The 3rd to last time I last did PvP, I was fighting a Pistoleer who was buffed/armoured...I was too. Know how many Flamesingle 2's I landed on him? If my memory still serves me, it was well over 8 consecutive ones...nearly all surprisingly hit..why? The guy was just standing there and whittling me down with his Geo Pistol. I did about 500 or so wounds on him with my burn, but for the most part...I was barely touching him with my flamer.
Moral? Don't let looks decieve you, commandos are awesome in a few scenarios...but are downright pitiful in most. And the most demoralizing part? All for 169 sp - the most combat intensive profession in the game...
Evelas
Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:14 am
#11
amen
garvin wrote:
The reasons peoplefeel that Commandos are "broken" is because of what we are meant to be like and what we actually currently are...
1) We are a "ranged" professions but all of our specials are restricted to "melee range"...at the same time we have lower Melee defenses then some of the ranged professions.
2) We are easily kited to death...we can't do our massive damage attacks if we can't get our opponent into 16 to 20m range (longer range because of lag issues)...So to completely remove any "commando" threat, just keep the Commando 20m or more away from you...
3) Several elite level professions are capable of out damaging Commandos when it comes to DPS (Damage Per Second)...We are suppose to be the heaviest hitting profession, but when you factor in our speed and accuracy, you will see that by the third shot, many professions (like Rifleman and Swordsman) out damage Commandos (especially when we miss 1 out of 3 shots)...
4) Our Grenades do the user damage...If you ever face a Commando using grenades, just run towards them if you want to have fun. The grenade when thrown will explode at the range of the target,so if it's thrown while you are 20m away, if you get the Commando within 7m or so before it explodes, the Commando will take the same damage...this combined with the extremely high HAM cost can often incapp the Commando using it...Grenades are the only thrown weapon in game that damages the user (even Detonation Droids don't damage the user if caught in the blast radius)...
5) Our Consumable Launcher weapons don't meet Cost vs. Value...Right now the typical weapon like the Rocket Launcher averages 30 total shots of which only 18 or so hit their target...at a cost of 35K per RL, that's over 1.5K per shot...they also force the user to stop and kneel which puts the Commando in a very vunerable state...
6) Besides have extremely low melee and ranged defenses, we also have little to now State Defenses...The fact that, because of our specials, we are restricted to Melee range battles, we often find ourselves victims of Knockdown attacks...once on our backs, it's game over for the Commando...
7) Only one really useful weapon via the Commando trees...The Launcher Pistol (LP) doesn't come with any extra pistol mods or specials beyond Marksman, so it's only really useful to those grinding Commando (not yet 0030) or those who have dabbled other pistol related elite professions. The Heavy Acid Rifle (HAR) is a weaker clone of the FlameThrower (FT) and has not DoT, yet at the same time it's specials have a higher HAM cost then the FT. This leaves Commandos with our FT and our Consumable weapons. Consumables aren't very useful for the reasons mentions in #4 and #5 as well as the fact that you can't do any specials with them (a common misconception)...So in the end, the Commando is left with the FT for 95% of all of our fights, which, as mentioned in #2, can be nullified if the target is capable of staying at least 20m from the Commando...
So as you can see, there are plenty of ways to beat the profession that is suppose to be the HEAVIEST hitting profession in the game...it's sad when you think that Commandos have the MOST combat related pre-reqs of any profession, yet we are also one of the easiest to beat...The only hope the Commando of today has to be able to compete PvP is to dabble for more useful PvP skills, specials and defenses...
When it comes to PvE though, I strongly feel that Commando is one of the best SOLO playing clases when grouped with other high defense professions...Because NPC's rarely kite us, we usually can get off enough specials to see significant damage...combine this with good buffs and the Commando can be very formitable in PvE...
And just a side note...ALL of the issue above are being considered in the CU changes coming for Commando...we may not see all the fixes we want, but we WILL be able to play PvP on much better levels then we currently do now...
BloodMonk
Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:53 am
#13
I have to disagree to some extend...
commando is kind of gimped atm YES
commando is not nearly powerfull enough for 169 SP YES
commando useless in pvp NO but a lot harder to make work than other classes.
first off...flame IV vs. M commando is a WORLD of difference in PvP...when I dropped Master and pvp'd with flame IV I was amazed wat how much more I missed +30 accuracy is no smaal thing to lose.
secondly if possible, THE damage dealers in pvp are HPBC and RL, downside: you need these custom made for more accuracy (my HPBC are +90, RL are 7s 4.1K max +60-ish accuracy).
In group pvp a commando can decimate the opposition with these...when solo they are only usable on opponents who can be KD'd
as a commando you can kill just about anyone except jedi, the problem is that most of the time it comes down to wearing people down....and the more time you spend fighting someone...the likelier it gets he'll get backup over there
with a lot of effort you can bring commando up to par with the other ranged profs (except rifleman) imo I fear no pistoleer or carbineer as commando...actually the only thing I feared were jedi lol.. and I LOVED fighting those silly no medic defense stackers...
commando takes a lot more work than most classes....but it's WAY more rewarding killing some "uber" template with an underdog prof like commando
Sly
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