Commando Archive

Elemental Damage caps on all Commando weapons.
Does further experimentation on Damage beyond the cap increase minimal damage more than experimentation on Elemental Damage does on Elemental Damage.
Damage and speed caps on all Commando weapons (the WS forums lacks this info in their thread).
Damage and speed caps on Grenades.
What exactly can you experiment on concerning grenades?

Elemental Damage caps on all Commando weapons.

will do.... LBC I got up to 204 but it was last week and I can remeber if I capped it

Does further experimentation on Damage beyond the cap increase minimal damage more than experimentation on Elemental Damage does on Elemental Damage.

will test it...though seeing as elemental damage does not suffer the 0.7 damage mod, nor does it suffer from low damage mod from stating specials......and add to that that elemental caps at 6K in armour...and that primus layers are VERY popular (primus layers raise kinetic and energy protection but lower elemental)

Damage and speed caps on all Commando weapons (the WS forums lacks this info in their thread).

ehm I will try

Damage and speed caps on Grenades.

speed is irrelevant as it's broke....and I actually hope there's no damage cap on grenades as else my +2700 damage acklay venom might be useless

What exactly can you experiment on concerning grenades?

erm I'll tell you tonight after I check

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BloodMonk wrote:

Elemental Damage caps on all Commando weapons.

will do.... LBC I got up to 204 but it was last week and I can remeber if I capped it

I've seen one LBC with 217 and the weaponsmith who made it said it capped. Also, the ASL he "capped" got up to 201, would like some verification on these numbers as they're kind of odd.

Does further experimentation on Damage beyond the cap increase minimal damage more than experimentation on Elemental Damage does on Elemental Damage.

will test it...though seeing as elemental damage does not suffer the 0.7 damage mod, nor does it suffer from low damage mod from stating specials......and add to that that elemental caps at 6K in armour...and that primus layers are VERY popular (primus layers raise kinetic and energy protection but lower elemental)

If it will go up the same amount or better, experimenting on Elemental Damage first might make a better weapon versus Tanking templates with high defenses specifically TKM and Jedi Defenders since they use innate armor (6K resists to everything). I'd be eager to test and see if a weapon with a lower max damage can make up the difference with more elemental damage versus high defense templates.

Damage and speed caps on Grenades.

speed is irrelevant as it's broke....and I actually hope there's no damage cap on grenades as else my +2700 damage acklay venom might be useless

Hoping for the speed to be fixed someday lol.

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You know its funny, I sudgested the elemental as an ace in the hole when the elemental was first fixed and got alotta shrugs. Heres another bit of input for the elemental theory: Their is a pup that increases elemental damage almost 30% is experimented correctly with only 8% taken off the main damage type. Its plausible to have a pup experimented to I think 18% elemental damage with no loss to main damage type (its been a bit so I can't remember exact numbers). I see 250 Acid damage easy on an Acid launcer I randomly picked up from a ventor, I'd be curious what could be done with a weapon that was made specifically for elemental damage.

well that weird "cap" of 201 can be explained by how the crafting system works.....there's a theoretical cap which you could reach with perfect resources, and a effective cap depending on the resources.

on the high defense opponents...I've been thinking the same thing and have been experimenting with several weapons to get really high min damage or high min dam + elemental for this very (I call em my defender bender prototypes)

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I'd try to craft a high min PFT, attempting to hit these numbers without enhancement-

500 min

2,9 spd

100 elemental

107 sac

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Very, VERY difficult if not impossible without enhancement. Using very good resources, at best I can get:

460ish min- 948 max

2.97

89 elemental

100 SAC

For a Plasma FT. Damage is capped, 10 points and the last 2 into speed to compensate for the advanced stocks I use. Elemental only seems to rise 3-6 points per experimentation, so in my opinion you're really wasting your experimentation on elemental when you can either have better speed or more damage (just one experimentation point on average gives you 15-20 damage...and with an elite special, thats 30-40 damage per point compared to 3-6 per?).

Yes, elemental may do a bit better vs resists...but when you can dish out a hundred or two more damage with the same experimentation invested, I think that counts a tad more...

In my own experiences as well as in WS crafting, I lean heavily towards more SAC-reduced/High damage weaponry, especially including our own weapons.

On grenades:

Proton Grenade -

*I've gotten these up to about 1.1k. It seems in the 700's (frog-generated grenades), you can't slice the damage...so grenades seem to have, or at least proton grenades, have a very low slicing cap. For a crafting cap? No idea...but Im thinking in the 1.1 or 1.2k range...

*Can't experiment on speed from what I can tell

*Can experiment on range (ie...you can make imperial detonators have a max range of 50 rather than an initial 30 or 40 m)

*Can experiment on damage (given)

*Can experiment on states (duration/potency, etc)

Damage caps:

For master level: 1148 is the only crafting cap I know of. But if you want a rough estimate, look at the rifle caps...our's will most likely be 30-40 points lower. Why do I say this? The master level rifles cap is 1184, and on average I get 30-40 more max damage value points on rifles than I do with heavy weapons, using great resources.

Speed: No idea, lowest I've gotten Heavy Weapons are around 2.5ish I think. Damage will suck big time. Also, testing with speeds...it's better having a 2.84 spd/1113 max damage flamer than a 2.54/960 max damage flamer since it seems theres a hardcap on specials between 2.5-3 seconds. If its 2.5 seconds, you wouldn't see this unless you were REALLY low...lower than I bet our weapons can reach, so it seems regardless of speed...we all hover at around that 3 second mark. Granted we might be a bit slower or bit faster...but will a tenth of a second really kill you?

Message Edited by StarNick on 10-06-2005 10:45 PM

I had a weaponsmith test the crafting limits for elemental damage on a PFT and he came back to me with a possible cap of 140, if that were to be maxed out. The best I have ever seen was a min damage of 510 and an elemental of 101 on an unsliced PFT if you were looking for something to shoot for in terms of a way to get at highest possible min damage on the Plasma Flamer. Another thing I had wondered at, considering the crafting caps and experimental/slicing effect on min damage, is whether or not is was actually better, when trying to maximize minimum damage to use second tier enhanced powercelss, stuff in the +160 damage range to keep the max far enough under cap to allow a +8% increase in min without running into max caps.

If I had a 12 pooint weaponsmith to play around with...

I'd try to craft a high min PFT, attempting to hit these numbers without enhancement-

500 min

2,9 spd

100 elemental

107 sac

I might also try playing with SAC enhancement in the powercell to see what effect that would have on a final combine, if I were to assume the use of a -7 SAC enhanced power cell, but no stock (no crafted stock that is. Looted stonks can add an additional +29 to min and reduce attack speed also, so seeing where final SAC costs would run is something I am curious about).

Anyway, I'm happy enough to read up on any tests you perform, regardless of whether or not they are the ones I'd do. Thanks so much for doing this and posting results.

I'd try to craft a high min PFT, attempting to hit these numbers without enhancement-

500 min

2,9 spd

100 elemental

107 sac

Message Edited by BloodMonk on 10-06-2005 12:44 PM

Sweet. Commandos love their weaponsmiths and armorsmiths. This is where AOE went wrong with JEDI. Stupid self sufficient loot whores are ruining the economy.

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StarNick wrote:

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I'd try to craft a high min PFT, attempting to hit these numbers without enhancement-

500 min

2,9 spd

100 elemental

107 sac

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Very, VERY difficult if not impossible without enhancement. Using very good resources, at best I can get:

460ish min- 948 max

2.97

89 elemental

100 SAC

For a Plasma FT. Damage is capped, 10 points and the last 2 into speed to compensate for the advanced stocks I use. Elemental only seems to rise 3-6 points per experimentation, so in my opinion you're really wasting your experimentation on elemental when you can either have better speed or more damage (just one experimentation point on average gives you 15-20 damage...and with an elite special, thats 30-40 damage per point compared to 3-6 per?). I have heard that experimentation on damage beyond the cap continues to raise minimum damage even if the max damage is capped. Does minimum damage go up by the same 15-20 per point as max damage? Is putting more experimentation points into damage even after you hit the cap even possible? I realize that speed and SAC would probably be a more practical application, but if speed can be compensated through slicing a weapon with a tighter min-max damage range might be better for a template with low ranged accuracy against higher defense targets. Also, SAC would be less important to templates that rely on ranged shot/aimed shot for damage.

Yes, elemental may do a bit better vs resists...but when you can dish out a hundred or two more damage with the same experimentation invested, I think that counts a tad more...

In my own experiences as well as in WS crafting, I lean heavily towards more SAC-reduced/High damage weaponry, especially including our own weapons.

On grenades:

Proton Grenade -

*I've gotten these up to about 1.1k. It seems in the 700's (frog-generated grenades), you can't slice the damage...so grenades seem to have, or at least proton grenades, have a very low slicing cap. For a crafting cap? No idea...but Im thinking in the 1.1 or 1.2k range...

*Can't experiment on speed from what I can tell

*Can experiment on range (ie...you can make imperial detonators have a max range of 50 rather than an initial 30 or 40 m)

*Can experiment on damage (given)

*Can experiment on states (duration/potency, etc)
Thanks been curious about these as they may actually mean something when they fix grenades.
Damage caps:

For master level: 1148 is the only crafting cap I know of. But if you want a rough estimate, look at the rifle caps...our's will most likely be 30-40 points lower. Why do I say this? The master level rifles cap is 1184, and on average I get 30-40 more max damage value points on rifles than I do with heavy weapons, using great resources.
Would be nice to know the caps for lower CL level weapons since many Master Commandos continue to use weapons like the RL and ASL for their states
Speed: No idea, lowest I've gotten Heavy Weapons are around 2.5ish I think. Damage will suck big time. Also, testing with speeds...it's better having a 2.84 spd/1113 max damage flamer than a 2.54/960 max damage flamer since it seems theres a hardcap on specials between 2.5-3 seconds. If its 2.5 seconds, you wouldn't see this unless you were REALLY low...lower than I bet our weapons can reach, so it seems regardless of speed...we all hover at around that 3 second mark. Granted we might be a bit slower or bit faster...but will a tenth of a second really kill you?

With advanced quickdraw from pistoleer and improved body shot I've seen a Heavy Weapon hit every 2 seconds, it just really runs you out of SAC fast, but also does a significant amount of damage in a short amount of time often surprising an opponent in PvP not used to seeing that from a Commando/Pistoleer. Speed tapes and a speed slice was used to do this I think, but it was a definite improvement given the low damage specials with this template.

Message Edited by StarNick on 10-06-200510:45 PM

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I think it would be cool to have a post on the Weaponsmith's forum concerning crafting of our weapons as well as a sticky on here. It would definitely help out new Commandos as well as some of the vets still playing around with template/weapon combinations. Our weapons have the most options for experimentation and the best ability to be customized to fit our templates which can vary greatly from Melee to Ranged given our toolbox/hybrid nature.

Also, the tightening of damage range in any way is of interest not only to Commandos, but also to any prof out there for PvP purposes. Our weapons just have another option to do this with Elemental Damage.

Once again, thanks for the info, I'm really anxious to see some hard numbers come out of this thread.

Message Edited by RoastyToasty on 10-07-200511:43 AM

Message Edited by RoastyToasty on 10-07-2005 11:43 AM

ok

made one with a bhp 15-41 -0.86 -8sac, barrel was 15-40 -0.89 -6sac (need better resources) and a -23sac 1.090s stock

came out 102 sac on assembly, capped dam with my resources (89%) with 9 points at 446-934 (1 amazing1 GS)...lol then I accidenlty put the remaining points into accuracy

next thing I did was make one with exactly 108 sac on assembly (a "powercell" reference model)

17sac stock same barrel and ph gave me: 2.89s 446-934 87 elemental 108 sac

seems you can play with sacrificing sac on barrel/bhp/stock...need to check what'll work best though

I'll try some more stuff once I've slept a bit

mmm as I don't have a commando myself atm (only grinding AFTER I complete my whole commando weapons collection...easily a few dozen weapons lol) I was wondering if anyone could test how high sac can get so you can spam (alternating) ranged/placed, assuming you're using action regen food (+200) and pixie or booster...

I checked my 1st try-out of high min/high ele PFT and it came out 478min 99 ele 3.something speed... (and 120 sac)

now as I did it late at night I forgot what comps I used...I know the ABHP were 29-48 min-max damage, but I'm not sure if the barrel was experimented for damage too....

now if I would max damage on the abhp/barrel and use a looted stock you're sure to get 510 min damage....but sac will be REALLY high at 140-150 or so...

before I left for work today I put some -8sac lower damage abph's in the factory...gonne try these to see if I can find a decent balance between sac in min damage/elemental.

damn I wish some more "bad" powercells dropped (with less than 165 damage on em)....as it's too bad they're only good for the sac reduction when you're trying to make "defender bender" weapons. (though they still might marginally raise your damage output, if your accuracy is high enough)

Sly