Commando Archive
Thread: Consumable Specials
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HarleyDan
Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:32 am
#1
Hey all,
Rocket Launchers, Partical Beams... etc.
How many of you guys actually use these???
I have been commando now for many months and haven't even used one.
Are they worth using? How many WeaponSmiths actually make these as I have not seen any on their vendors?
I have 4044 Commando, and want to know if it worth the extra points to go up last tree.
Any insight is would be helpful.
Nicko_
Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:43 am
#2
Well...
I use some, when I care to look at the bazaard and find a nice pack. It's always a good laught using those.
Not much more though.
I use some, when I care to look at the bazaard and find a nice pack. It's always a good laught using those.
Not much more though.
garvin
Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:45 am
#3
In their current form, the majority of our Consumable weapons (even grenades, unless you are using them for FS purposes) don't equal Cost Vs. Value, and therefore don't sell well, thus, WS's don't make a lot of them.
First off, a weapon like the Rocket Launcher is one of the most time consuming to craft in game (use to be worse when it needed specifically named resources...we got that changed at least). Then, when you have one, due to our accuracy issues, an average 30 shot RL only hits it's target around 18 times (if you are luckly)...the average price for an RL is around 30 to 35K depending on which WS to speak with. That means you are basically spending around 1.7K credits per connecting shot for a weapon that costs as much as many non-consumable weapons where we'd have better speed and accuracy.
Now take the speed in as a factor Vs. the damage potential. At first glance it appears like the RL is capable of a high level of damage, but when you examine the speed and compare to other weapons out there, you'll find that some easily out damage the RL, especially when it comes to Damage Per Second (DPS)...To add insult to injury, the Smuggler and Bounty Hunter cert'd Detonation Droids, if crafted properly into an R-Unit droid, are capable of higher BLAST damage levels then our RL (the RLis SUPPOSE to be the BLAST damage leader). Even the Swordsman Power Hammer is capable of out Blast Damaging our RL when it comes to DPS.
Beyond all of that, using the RL or any of our Consumable Launcher weapons, forces the user into a kneeling position that makes them highly vunerable for about 5 to 7 seconds at least.
So for the most part, most Commandos only buy the RL when it comes to our Consumable Launcher weapons...and even then, we typically save them for special occasions.
As for our Grenades...the recent run on Combat XP has made them a popular item recently, but don't be fooled...they are still as bugged and broken as ever. They are the ONLY thrown weapon in game that does damage to the user if caught in the blast radius (which often happens when the target is running towards you). Even Detonation Droids do NOT damage the user when caught in the Blast radius (as advertised by the devs when first added to the game asa "plus"). Combine the damage with the extremely high HAM costs (on average) and you can understand why we call them "suicide bombs" as a Commando can easily incapp themselves with their own weapon.
So basically, there you have our Consumables in a nutshell...you can see there are reasons why we rarely use them and why WS's don't typically make a lot of them.
There are lots of great ideas out there for revamping our Launcher Consumables as well as our Grenades. Hopefully the Devs will revamp them soon.
PS...Just because it's a common misconception I see from non-commandos often (not that you made it here), people need to realize that there are NO SPECIALS with Consumable weapons...I don't know how often I see someone say "What marksman specails work with the RL?" I've even heard some "higher-ups" one time mentioning that if specials did ever go "cross weapons", that they'd have to be restricted on the RL to prevent them from being to powerful (I had to correct them on the fact that the RL can't use ANY specials)...
Message Edited by garvin on 12-20-2004 09:13 AM
Novock
Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:54 am
#4
Nice post Garvin. I think the consumables should be hard hitting and hit a larger area (blast radius) but yes they shouldn't have a special or the ability to have specials applied to them. if you fire a rocket at someone you shouldn't have to have a direct hit for it to be successful if a rocket explodes 3 feet to the right of you its going to hurt. Anway lets hope the consumables are made more pratical in the future if not in the CU then not far in the future.
Asterz
Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:34 pm
#5
I use consumable weapons all the time. A clan smith also had a Commando character so made loads of Rocket Launcher, Particle, Lightning crates etc (and a shed load of Protons). I also tend to pick up 4k dmg Rocket Launchers for around 30k max price. I think every Commando worth their salt should carry a whole stack of consumables. Of course thats just my opinion as I was fortunate enough to have bucket loads available cheap. The speed difference when taking out a big mob using consumables with Heavy AP compared to plodding away with a flamer is enough IMHO to make it worthwhile getting and using them. Also you can wreak minor havoc if you ever get caught up an "event" style mass attack on one of the NPC cities. It helps if you have feign death too as you can get more than 5 mobs to aggro you at once using Feign and then when you let loose with your rockets carnage. They are good to have if you need to take out Turrets or AT-ST's too oh and Super Battle Droids and Kimos and... You get my point.
Also I noticed in Garvins post above he said a 30 stack RL hits about 18 times on average the 35 stack RL's I use hit 30 - 34 times against the following mobs, Kryats, Kimogillas, Gorax, Super Battle Droids, Corsecs on the Corvette, Imperial Stormies of all flavours and AT-STs.
Also worth noteing is that I tend to hunt big game in groups not solo like most people and in a group Consumables dont have as many downsides as noted above i.e Kneeling and having to worry about dmg over time.
Oh and the bit above about Consumables not being useable with specials thats correct however using a Consumable counts as a special move so having a nice stack of Ahrisa etc helps you thump these out without as much HAM loss. As a Smuggler/Commando I make sure all my consumables are sliced for that extra advantage too.
'besides the game is meant to be fun and using heavy consumable weps with big explosions adds to the experience that your really a commando.
Message Edited by Asterz on 12-21-2004 08:46 AM
HarleyDan
Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:59 am
#6
Very nice posts. Garvin's post make me want to wait for CU but Asterz post saysgo get em......
Well I'll pick up the tree now in anticipation of CU will bring some positive changes....
Thanks all for your feedback.
garvin
Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:33 am
#7
The key to our Consumables it to have them available but KNOW when to use them...I always advocate having them inyour inventory...but you'll likely find (at least the average Commando) that you only use them on "special" occasions...Some of us have had the same Consumable weapons in our inventory for over 7 months now and still haven't used them up (that's how rare their usability is).
For me, they've always worked best against a non-aggro'd target or stationary target...something that isn't running towards us or within the blast radius...
Dextrix
Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:06 pm
#8
I'm another one of the lucky ones I guess having a guild WS make all my stuff.
I've always had a bag of consumables linked to my hotkey or nukes in it linked there.
I carry a full aray of all dmg types at all times.
In PvP there is nothing I love more than dropping to a knee to blow up a Speeder lol.(That and turrets is about it)
For trips to the Vette or DWB I find our expendables verry usefull and can go through stacks on a single trip.
In an unbuffed duel there funny as all get out...
I agree with everything said above. As specialy G-Mans post...BUT....
I'm a Commando...I Blow stuff up ! 
\ Rua Ardan ~ Dantooine /
Pert
Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:44 am
#9
The last guild I was in I befriended the master weaponsmith, and got him to make lots of consumables, I have a pack full or rockets, lightning thingys, and the acid ones. I used them all the time before, because I had so many of them. Now I'm down to may last few, and since I haven't found a new weaponsmith to work out a deal with yet (mass quantity and frequent buyer discounts), I've been saving them. I like to use them in PvP, just for laughs, when I get the chance. I had someone working on rifleman take a pop shot at me while I was overt, and in response launched about 5 rockets over at them. It was worth it all just to here the response of "ack!" hit the spatial. it's a nice surprise ranged attack, is how I look at it, because people seem to forget that we can do it, and they are armor piercing, so that's nice too.
BloodMonk
Fri Dec 24, 2004 1:09 am
#10
they can be of use if....
-you have some decent ones made (my RL are 4.2k max +68 accuracy, HPBC are +90 acuracy)
-use them at ideal range (though RL do well from 48-64m)
-use speedsliced ones (a good hpbc with a speedslice will fire almost once per second)
-use them at the right time: at least on a stunned opponent...preferably a KD'd opponent 
they are a lot of fun to pvp with....and you can drop a juvi in under a minute with em
sly
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