Commando Archive
Thread: Commando Theory
Page 1 of 1
RankorCity
Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:55 pm
#1
Prologue
Assuming the description of the Commando as per the CU documentation no longer applies, and we are now a toolbox / utility profession, the following is an analysis of what works as currentlyintended, speculatively speaking. We have had no direct dev comment, therefore we must take what we can get and run with what we have.
Basics
Master Commando Skill Modifiers:
General Melee Speed: +20 (stacks with any melee profession)
General Melee Accuracy: +55 (stacks with any melee profession)
Unarmed Speed: +30 (when stacked with General Melee Speed, total is +50, stacks with Teras Kasi)
Unarmed Accuracy: +65 (when stacked with General Melee Speed, total is +120, stacks with Teras Kasi)
General Ranged Speed: +25 (stacks with any ranged weapon)
General Ranged Accuracy: +95 (stacks with any ranged weapon)
Heavy Weapon Speed: +45 (when stacked with General Ranged Speed, total is +70, does NOT improve nonHeavy Weapon performance)
Heavy Weapon Accuracy: +55 (when stacked with General Ranged Accuracy, total is +150, does NOT improve nonHeavy Weapon performance)
Ranged defense: +70 (Heavy Weapon Defense stacks with Ranged Defense ONLY when holding a Heavy Weapon, for a total of +120)
Melee defense: +95 (Unarmed Defense stacks with Melee defense ONLY when unarmed, for a total of +135)
Misc modifiers:
Heavy Weapon Defense: +50 (Stacks with Ranged Defense when holding a Heavy Weapon for a total of +120)
Unarmed Defense: +40 (Stacks with Melee Defense when unarmed, for a total of +135)
Theory
Disclaimer: The following is only a theory of mine, based on what little communication we have had from the devs. Hopefully, someone will come in and either confirm or deny it.
From our lack ofprofession specific attacks, itappears thatCommando is to be a modifier to make other professions better via our general ranged/melee modifiers. By this, we CAN improve other profession such as pistoleer, by making that pistoleer faster, more accurate, and with more defenses. However, it comes with a cost, at the expense of having to get 4000 Brawler - an additional 15 points more than going up the carbineer or rifleman tree. Additionally, by going up one line Carbineer instead of Commando, that pistoleer will receive just as much, or more mod bonues AND more attacks that can be used with his or her pistol.
Going the Commando route, the pistoleer will receive mod bonuses, but will also receive weapon certifications with innate specials such as blind, knockdown, and stun. BUT, if the pistoleer goes up another profession, such as carbineer, they can receive these same state attacks without having to switch weapons. Also, the weapons that the pistoleer can use in these state attacks offers significantly more damage potential than the Commando weapons. Basically, they can do ranged knockdown with a Carbineer special using a 950ish (or higher) weapon, whereas the Commando weapon that does ranged knockdown is approx 360ish in damage. Also, the Carbineer has a true AoE knockdown (cone)
Analysis
Commando, having to fill a role of utility/toolbox, does so in an average manner. When paired with another profession, it offers only a slight improvement over the standard mastery of another profession. Commando, in return gets a large boost from another profession with the additional mods, and specials that may be used with Commando weapons. However, this in and of itself is NOT unique in that whatever states that can be applied via Commando weapons (its innate specials) can be applied in a moreadvantageous way with other professions. Also, other professions can use otherprofession specific specials with their weapons, WITHOUT having to change weapons to apply various AoE's, states, mez's, and straightforward AoE attacks. This puts the Commando at a severe disadvantage, when having to rely on other professions to inflict damage with Commando specific weapons, and further disadvantage when the Commando tries to put specific states on their targets by having to switch between multiple weapons.
Conclusion
The feeling is that Commando was left unfinished, even with a working AoE. Lets assume the AoE did work. Even IF it did work, it is left in the proverbial Tatooine dust by other professions AoE specials. A Carbineer / Pistoleer, or Rifleman/Carb/Pistoleer mix would leave the Commando gasping for air by virtue of its higher damaging, yet lower SAC cost weapons (even Rifles) AND doing 100 main / 100 splash damage to its targets. Commando should be listed as2 offensive, 3 defensive, and 4 crowd control (by virture of its intended innate AoE). It only mildly improves other professions over their standard profession mastery. The same benefits that Commando can offer can be found in the form of attachments, doctor buffs, food, and more specifically, other profession skill trees at a greater return for the player's proverbial dollar.
DarkNexus1014
Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:16 pm
#2
Heavy Weapons Defense is added to melee defense as well.
As it stands, in almost every group I'm in (other than the groups containing the most elite players), I generally outdamage most of my groupmates. Alternating between Ranged Shot and Placed Shot does a LOT of damage over time. Adding in my flame DOT, I can really compete for the high end of damage. My weapon isn't even that great (cost me 30k from a friendly weaponsmith.) I have some krayt tissue ready to throw into a new weapon. My Weaponsmith generally lowers all of my weapons down to 100 SAC. I alternate between Rapid Fire and Improved Legshot until I get down to about 50% action, and then alternate between Placed Shot and Ranged Shot until it regenerates back up. Is Commando doing this damage on its own? No, but I can take on a Rifleman/Doctor (who is as split as I am). Does this mean that Commandos are working 100%? Certainly not. We are extremely unwieldy and difficult to even break even with our groupmates.
If AoE was working as intended, I WOULD be doing the most damage in every group. If AoE worked as intended, I might drop MCM for MCarbs, it would be worth it. I would still wish for Commando to have its own specials and to work 100%, but just getting AoE to work fully would do wonders for my group usefullness.
My recommendation: fix grenades. I really, REALLY want to use grenades so much, but I know I'll just hurt my group if I use them. Make it so grenades only hit enemies that my group is in combat with (I know this isn't in the spirit of true AoE, but a 30m radius that goes through all obstacles and aggros EVERYTHING is really difficult to work with, ESPECIALLY when the damage and effects leave a lot to be desired. If our grenades did ammo-based damage and caused ammo-based effects (i.e. they are one-shot weapons, they should give a lot of bang for the buck, certainly more than just shooting my flamer), I don't think I'd ever ask for specials again. Let the Cryoban snare the enemy for 30 seconds, and slow his attacks for a minute. Let the Proton Grenade put on a better DOT than our flamer! Enemies should flee from our explosives, not laugh at our waste!
To summarize: if AoE worked as intended, the weapons would be fine for me (i.e. the devs don't want us doing rifle damage to 5 enemies simultaneously. I can understand that. But if I have to hit 5 enemies just do equal the damage from one rifle shot, there's something wrong- we're both rated 5 in offense, damn it!) If our weapons are our specials, then give us master-level upgrades on ALL of them (a master Rocket Launcher that does a small AoE knockdown, like the low level one used to. A Master CL LBC- I love the weapon so much, I want a high-end version! If the Proton Rifle is the master equivalent, forgive me- I haven't gotten mine yet.) I think we should have a grenade that does the low level Armor Break (maybe even 20%- I'd be fine with that. But make Commando more unique compared to the other ranged professions.) And please, PLEASE let us use Center of Being with heavy weapons! Even if we can only use it with weapons that are classified as Special Heavy Weapons, that would be fine. But COME ON, CoB is weaker than Duelist Stance, and BH gets that (not to mention a million things that we don't, AND access to class-specific content. We paid the same amount of SPs, we deserve a little something-something
)
As it stands, in almost every group I'm in (other than the groups containing the most elite players), I generally outdamage most of my groupmates. Alternating between Ranged Shot and Placed Shot does a LOT of damage over time. Adding in my flame DOT, I can really compete for the high end of damage. My weapon isn't even that great (cost me 30k from a friendly weaponsmith.) I have some krayt tissue ready to throw into a new weapon. My Weaponsmith generally lowers all of my weapons down to 100 SAC. I alternate between Rapid Fire and Improved Legshot until I get down to about 50% action, and then alternate between Placed Shot and Ranged Shot until it regenerates back up. Is Commando doing this damage on its own? No, but I can take on a Rifleman/Doctor (who is as split as I am). Does this mean that Commandos are working 100%? Certainly not. We are extremely unwieldy and difficult to even break even with our groupmates.
If AoE was working as intended, I WOULD be doing the most damage in every group. If AoE worked as intended, I might drop MCM for MCarbs, it would be worth it. I would still wish for Commando to have its own specials and to work 100%, but just getting AoE to work fully would do wonders for my group usefullness.
My recommendation: fix grenades. I really, REALLY want to use grenades so much, but I know I'll just hurt my group if I use them. Make it so grenades only hit enemies that my group is in combat with (I know this isn't in the spirit of true AoE, but a 30m radius that goes through all obstacles and aggros EVERYTHING is really difficult to work with, ESPECIALLY when the damage and effects leave a lot to be desired. If our grenades did ammo-based damage and caused ammo-based effects (i.e. they are one-shot weapons, they should give a lot of bang for the buck, certainly more than just shooting my flamer), I don't think I'd ever ask for specials again. Let the Cryoban snare the enemy for 30 seconds, and slow his attacks for a minute. Let the Proton Grenade put on a better DOT than our flamer! Enemies should flee from our explosives, not laugh at our waste!
To summarize: if AoE worked as intended, the weapons would be fine for me (i.e. the devs don't want us doing rifle damage to 5 enemies simultaneously. I can understand that. But if I have to hit 5 enemies just do equal the damage from one rifle shot, there's something wrong- we're both rated 5 in offense, damn it!) If our weapons are our specials, then give us master-level upgrades on ALL of them (a master Rocket Launcher that does a small AoE knockdown, like the low level one used to. A Master CL LBC- I love the weapon so much, I want a high-end version! If the Proton Rifle is the master equivalent, forgive me- I haven't gotten mine yet.) I think we should have a grenade that does the low level Armor Break (maybe even 20%- I'd be fine with that. But make Commando more unique compared to the other ranged professions.) And please, PLEASE let us use Center of Being with heavy weapons! Even if we can only use it with weapons that are classified as Special Heavy Weapons, that would be fine. But COME ON, CoB is weaker than Duelist Stance, and BH gets that (not to mention a million things that we don't, AND access to class-specific content. We paid the same amount of SPs, we deserve a little something-something
)
RankorCity
Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:32 pm
#3
I've got to respectfully disagree with you on the damage part...
In my experience, even with a 1048 max damage flamer, or nearly same damage Proton Rifle, I rarely outdamage the people I am with. The "hate system" that is in place pretty much leaves no doubt. Further, the high SAC of our weapons takesme out of the fight alot sooner.
Seehere for weapons analysis...
This is comparing 3 master level weapons, and one 54CL level weapon. The Plasma Thrower is a) less damage, b) slower, and c) higher SAC cost. Granted, each one is pretty much the BEST example of each type, but it further reinforces the fact that Commando master level weapons are out of balance with other profession master level weapons in the game, and even "standard" CL54 weapons
DarkNexus1014
Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:39 pm
#4
The hate system is how I know that I'm outdamaging the people in my group. That's why my 6888 kin/eng armor is broken now 
But like I said, if our AoE worked as it should, I wouldn't feel as bad about our weapons.
Our profession is SUPPOSED to be: *flame* *flame* *grenade* *flame* *rocket* *grenade*, and that would tear apart large groups of enemies. But as it stands, the *flame* just aggros a bunch of other enemies, and the *grenade* aggros the rest. We don't make it to the *rocket* part
But like I said, if our AoE worked as it should, I wouldn't feel as bad about our weapons.
Our profession is SUPPOSED to be: *flame* *flame* *grenade* *flame* *rocket* *grenade*, and that would tear apart large groups of enemies. But as it stands, the *flame* just aggros a bunch of other enemies, and the *grenade* aggros the rest. We don't make it to the *rocket* part
DarkNexus1014
Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:41 pm
#5
I forgot to add, we should be able to power-up our weapons. I used to think that we shouldn't, but our weapons should do more damage. But letting us P'Up our weapons would help the player economy more.
RankorCity
Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:46 pm
#6
We can power up all our weapons, except our cornerstone - the flamer (plasma or the lite version).
Bug?
Intended?
Noone knows for sure.
StarNick
Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:31 am
#7
"The feeling is that Commando was left unfinished, even with a working AoE."
That, I think you're correct in...
A few points worth considering:
The ways of being a damage dealer
Mods or Weapons?
Role Change?
The Ways of being a damage dealer
Through some casual testing/recording in preparation of several large threads I have planned soon, as well as the commando guide (which im sorta waiting for AoE to finally be fixed...). I have this to say: We can be a damage dealer, but its by far the hardest route to possibly go.
Take a look at Master Commando, with an unenhanced PFT (around 950ish max damage), using overcharge shot...not only is it roughly 4-6 seconds per shot (opposed to 3 with improved legshot), but with our Plasma Flamethrower...it only does around 1200-1300 damage. With an elite carbine (around 880ish max dmg) I can do 1700 damage with improved legshot. And mind you, these are without armour resists on very low CL mobs...
But we get a Fire DoT and AoE to go along that right? If you factor in the fire DoT's damage, its roughly an extra 1200 damage (or one special's) worth. And of course AoE is non-existant, and if it was...would most likely be only 40-50% as it has been shown to be as with our PFT. Hence, as a pure master commando...we're not a damage dealer, but rather an aggro dealer.
Now, use that same PFT with legshot...you'll notice that it'll be about 1900 damage a shot (or high 1800's), rather than 1600-1700 dmg with the elite carbine. Thats where our bonus of those extra 100 or so damage comes in from between the carbine and rifle/HW catagories. Unfortunately, for us its only 70...as our max damage is generally a good 30 dmg below rifles (using the same great resources, I can easily get laser rifles to 980, but PFTs only to 948).
Even then because of speeds and SAC costs, we most likely will get outdamage...so what to do? Our only true recourse in cementing our role as a damage dealer is 1) To pick up a profession like carbineer and 2) Get a Krayted PFT. My PFT (ADKed now!) iwas 466-1113 dmg/100 SAC/2.84 Spd, and most of the time in my groups (even with riflemen) I tend to draw the most targets because of the hate system.
Not only is it required to spend more SP, but its also required to get a stack of 5 +157 dmg krayt tissues...
Once again this heralds a "why bother?", and it ain't something new. The only reason we aren't in such a dire state as pre-Cu is because 1) There are no longer 100% heat resists, 2) We actually have defenses now, and 3) Commando can mesh better in a template. IF our damage/offensive effectiveness was THIS hard to gain or was brought down this drastically pre-CU...our profession would be dead.
Mods or Weapons?
I disagree with you a bit on our mods Rankor. The original concept was that our weapons, not our mods would be a mutual benefit for both us and for other professions. A carbineer can pick up commando to do combos with our higher damage, and "utility-laden" Heavy Weapons....and in return we would get the carbineer's specials. Of course, our general mods would act like carbineer's general mods where templates would mesh a whole lot better...that was a huge concept behind the CU. Now, if we were like BH or SL with only general ranged mods, you would be accurate that we were a modifier for other professions based off our own mods, but right now that role is more fitted to our weapons...(as you went on) since they can "power-up" specials... (bleh I hate that word now)
Role Change?
"Basically, they can do ranged knockdown with a Carbineer special using a 950ish (or higher) weapon, whereas the Commando weapon that does ranged knockdown is approx 360ish in damage."
That, in a sense really sums up our problem. We're damage dealers, not crowd control or position control. We shouldn't even have a KD as a special, so it makes sense that its an innate effect from our Rocket Launcher. However, we lack two vital components: 1) Damage specials and 2) Advanced Weapons (ie Advanced Rocket Launcher). Our weapons become obselote as soon as we level up...its contradictory of our role (or is it?) to go back to lower damaging weapons to produce "specials"...
Our entire role it seems is now a contradiction. We had such a clear cut CU role ironically... "Focus on potent damage, not varied utility or defensive abilities". Apparently who wrote that didn't see what was being developed for us.
Every profession has utility in the form of their specials (AoE with fanshot, KD with Charge shot), but its external and easier to handle with a multitude of weapons. Our Heavy Weapons are no different, and using marksman specials often times come OUT to be the same damages as my elite carbine can do with KD, or my pistol can do with fanshot. Example: Our RL does 500-700 damage with a good damage special, and KDs...with my elite carbine and charge shot, generally 600 damage or so. Fanshot with my carbine is 1200-1300 damage, with an unenhanced PFT...your normal marksman specials are around that, and with AoE.
So effectively, we -are balanced- but in the most rotten and unforgiving way...we're ALL utility, and no damage. All we are is a collage of state inducing specials, that can only unlock our true potential when another profession takes ours (or vice versa).
That is the aftermath of a concept that would have our weapons "power-up" marksman/other professions' specials. Where we would be dealing equilvent damage, with built in states (basically combining damage special + innate state, very flexible if done right), but if we picked up another ranged profession our damage would increase...rather than stay the same as in a Pistoleer-carbineer template. Its a nice idea...on paper (think: Communism)
Now we realize that without a damage special equal to other professions, we don't even come close...and have to invest far more than the standard player to actually realize our role. It is ironic that those CU documents prescribed roles per profession, not per template...
So what are we? We're half conceputlized, and i say half finished. We need to rather than externally acquire specials and power them up for our role...we need internal specials to power-up with our utility. At a cost? Higher SAC, and no other specials that do KDs or snares, since those are already in our weapons. The advantage? Damage + Tactical Flexibility. The original concept was half flawed, because we see that we do need specials that go with our Heavy Weapons.
Think:
For Carbineer -
Damage and/or Utility = Special
Damage = Weapon
Special + Weapon = Role
For Commando (right now) -
Utility/Damage = Weapon
Weapon = Role ?
If we try and match the damage gained from carbineer specials, as well as the damage gained from carbines...our weapons, when mixed with outside specials would be too unbalanced. It would be as if a carbine's damage was x, and with a special was 2x.....then our weapons would have to right off the back be 2x, but with a carbine's special be 4x. NO Matter where we go with our current concept, we're either underpowered or overpowered.
We need this:
Damage = Special
Damage/utility = Weapon
Special + Weapon = Role
We're a bit different from other professions, because we're a hybrid. BH can range tank, and hunt folks. We have a battlefield flexibility (or should if done correctly) that would make us ruthless on the field of battle just by ourselves. Then mixed in a template, pretty dang tough damage wise.
The reason I blame for us not seeing this is two fold: 1) The concept was half-arsed and 2) Our AoE prohibits us from this, at least from what I can gather in the dev's thinking...
Btw, Sorry for the long post
That, I think you're correct in...
A few points worth considering:
The Ways of being a damage dealer
Through some casual testing/recording in preparation of several large threads I have planned soon, as well as the commando guide (which im sorta waiting for AoE to finally be fixed...). I have this to say: We can be a damage dealer, but its by far the hardest route to possibly go.
Take a look at Master Commando, with an unenhanced PFT (around 950ish max damage), using overcharge shot...not only is it roughly 4-6 seconds per shot (opposed to 3 with improved legshot), but with our Plasma Flamethrower...it only does around 1200-1300 damage. With an elite carbine (around 880ish max dmg) I can do 1700 damage with improved legshot. And mind you, these are without armour resists on very low CL mobs...
But we get a Fire DoT and AoE to go along that right? If you factor in the fire DoT's damage, its roughly an extra 1200 damage (or one special's) worth. And of course AoE is non-existant, and if it was...would most likely be only 40-50% as it has been shown to be as with our PFT. Hence, as a pure master commando...we're not a damage dealer, but rather an aggro dealer.
Now, use that same PFT with legshot...you'll notice that it'll be about 1900 damage a shot (or high 1800's), rather than 1600-1700 dmg with the elite carbine. Thats where our bonus of those extra 100 or so damage comes in from between the carbine and rifle/HW catagories. Unfortunately, for us its only 70...as our max damage is generally a good 30 dmg below rifles (using the same great resources, I can easily get laser rifles to 980, but PFTs only to 948).
Even then because of speeds and SAC costs, we most likely will get outdamage...so what to do? Our only true recourse in cementing our role as a damage dealer is 1) To pick up a profession like carbineer and 2) Get a Krayted PFT. My PFT (ADKed now!) iwas 466-1113 dmg/100 SAC/2.84 Spd, and most of the time in my groups (even with riflemen) I tend to draw the most targets because of the hate system.
Not only is it required to spend more SP, but its also required to get a stack of 5 +157 dmg krayt tissues...
Once again this heralds a "why bother?", and it ain't something new. The only reason we aren't in such a dire state as pre-Cu is because 1) There are no longer 100% heat resists, 2) We actually have defenses now, and 3) Commando can mesh better in a template. IF our damage/offensive effectiveness was THIS hard to gain or was brought down this drastically pre-CU...our profession would be dead.
Mods or Weapons?
I disagree with you a bit on our mods Rankor. The original concept was that our weapons, not our mods would be a mutual benefit for both us and for other professions. A carbineer can pick up commando to do combos with our higher damage, and "utility-laden" Heavy Weapons....and in return we would get the carbineer's specials. Of course, our general mods would act like carbineer's general mods where templates would mesh a whole lot better...that was a huge concept behind the CU. Now, if we were like BH or SL with only general ranged mods, you would be accurate that we were a modifier for other professions based off our own mods, but right now that role is more fitted to our weapons...(as you went on) since they can "power-up" specials... (bleh I hate that word now)
Role Change?
"Basically, they can do ranged knockdown with a Carbineer special using a 950ish (or higher) weapon, whereas the Commando weapon that does ranged knockdown is approx 360ish in damage."
That, in a sense really sums up our problem. We're damage dealers, not crowd control or position control. We shouldn't even have a KD as a special, so it makes sense that its an innate effect from our Rocket Launcher. However, we lack two vital components: 1) Damage specials and 2) Advanced Weapons (ie Advanced Rocket Launcher). Our weapons become obselote as soon as we level up...its contradictory of our role (or is it?) to go back to lower damaging weapons to produce "specials"...
Our entire role it seems is now a contradiction. We had such a clear cut CU role ironically... "Focus on potent damage, not varied utility or defensive abilities". Apparently who wrote that didn't see what was being developed for us.
Every profession has utility in the form of their specials (AoE with fanshot, KD with Charge shot), but its external and easier to handle with a multitude of weapons. Our Heavy Weapons are no different, and using marksman specials often times come OUT to be the same damages as my elite carbine can do with KD, or my pistol can do with fanshot. Example: Our RL does 500-700 damage with a good damage special, and KDs...with my elite carbine and charge shot, generally 600 damage or so. Fanshot with my carbine is 1200-1300 damage, with an unenhanced PFT...your normal marksman specials are around that, and with AoE.
So effectively, we -are balanced- but in the most rotten and unforgiving way...we're ALL utility, and no damage. All we are is a collage of state inducing specials, that can only unlock our true potential when another profession takes ours (or vice versa).
That is the aftermath of a concept that would have our weapons "power-up" marksman/other professions' specials. Where we would be dealing equilvent damage, with built in states (basically combining damage special + innate state, very flexible if done right), but if we picked up another ranged profession our damage would increase...rather than stay the same as in a Pistoleer-carbineer template. Its a nice idea...on paper (think: Communism)
Now we realize that without a damage special equal to other professions, we don't even come close...and have to invest far more than the standard player to actually realize our role. It is ironic that those CU documents prescribed roles per profession, not per template...
So what are we? We're half conceputlized, and i say half finished. We need to rather than externally acquire specials and power them up for our role...we need internal specials to power-up with our utility. At a cost? Higher SAC, and no other specials that do KDs or snares, since those are already in our weapons. The advantage? Damage + Tactical Flexibility. The original concept was half flawed, because we see that we do need specials that go with our Heavy Weapons.
Think:
For Carbineer -
Damage and/or Utility = Special
Damage = Weapon
Special + Weapon = Role
For Commando (right now) -
Utility/Damage = Weapon
Weapon = Role ?
If we try and match the damage gained from carbineer specials, as well as the damage gained from carbines...our weapons, when mixed with outside specials would be too unbalanced. It would be as if a carbine's damage was x, and with a special was 2x.....then our weapons would have to right off the back be 2x, but with a carbine's special be 4x. NO Matter where we go with our current concept, we're either underpowered or overpowered.
We need this:
Damage = Special
Damage/utility = Weapon
Special + Weapon = Role
We're a bit different from other professions, because we're a hybrid. BH can range tank, and hunt folks. We have a battlefield flexibility (or should if done correctly) that would make us ruthless on the field of battle just by ourselves. Then mixed in a template, pretty dang tough damage wise.
The reason I blame for us not seeing this is two fold: 1) The concept was half-arsed and 2) Our AoE prohibits us from this, at least from what I can gather in the dev's thinking...
Btw, Sorry for the long post
RankorCity
Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:06 am
#8
StarNick wrote:
We're a bit different from other professions, because we're a hybrid. BH can range tank, and hunt folks.
Something funny about BH's being a ranged tank...
I'm quite certain that Jedi is a melee prof
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