Commando Archive
Thread: Garvin: Post CU, the commando fear, Masters of nothing?
<a href="http://desktop.wz.cz/a_game/Worms.jpg">We're armed, dangerous and ready to kick some ass</a>
Where other masters get 1 or 2 extra weapon cert we get a <beep>load. And while we can't match up masters on "thier" respective area we do a hella lot better on all the other area's they can't even think about throwing a stick at (if you catch my drift).
I really prefer to be a swiss knive as opposed to a really good pincher when I infact needed a good screwdriver.
Bassically your too much stuck on the pre-CU where there is only 1 situation in combat and you can either do it the "best" way.. or not at all.. let's just wait for the documents to become public before making too much assumptions.
Message Edited by Mostlikely on 11-08-2004 08:34 AM
the DPS is the same (so we are not uber) but the delivery is different. In all other MMPORG's the front-loaded damage classes are very unpopular because they do poor in solo situations, but when in groups they are loved beyond belief because they cut down the time to kill a target but 1/3rd just by having ONE of them in the group.
The commando should be the front-loaded damage dealers via shoulder mounted heavy weapons (long range) and the flamethrower (short range) ... and do LOWER DPS damage than other proffessions via launcher pistol/master marksman weapons/acid rifle (which give commando access to all damage types in return for lower dps)... and do 'normal' DPS as other proffessions with the Acid Rifle.
tacwraith wrote:
...but when in groups they are loved beyond belief because they cut down the time to kill a target but 1/3rd just by having ONE of them in the group.
...
garvin wrote:
mjPboy wrote:My impression from the CU and all the info that has come my way through hints and pure self speculation, is that using the master marksman and the unarmed tree , to me indicates us Master commandos will be jack of all trades, but Master of none. I get the feeling that we will get soem skills in all weapon certs, nice counters allowing us to fight on frontline and melee wont slaughter us, some crowd control from carbineer, soe long and short range....but nothing to truly define us. The use of heavy weapons may be one way I guess, but I cant help think a Master rifleman/pistoleer/carbineer would be better at doing the ranged support tasks.Will we ever truly master anything that our profession gives us?(((looks around to see if any Dev is watching)))
In the CU we are seeing a focus to make us Weapon specialists thanks to our various pre-reqs and such...but remember, we will still own the Heavy Weapon department...That's where we are THE specialists and masters of our realm...
It's hard to explain how exactly we will be masters of our role when I can't really tell you (thanks to the NDA) what our role is going to be...Our role really isn't changing hugely from what it's always been (or at least what WE think it always should have been)...The key thing is we are seeing certain fixes, enhancements and additions that make us fulfill our "role" better then other professions could...Sure, a M.Rifleman/M.Commando will still fill a heavy ranged support group role better then a "M.Commando/TKM", but the higher they go into Commando, the better they will be...The trick of the new "roles" will be knowing how and when to combine them...as in, take the Rifleman role and merge it with the Commando role to create your new Strategic role for how you would like to function in a group or solo...
I hope that makes sense....
Take one for the team Garvin and let us know!!!! I'm dieing because I need to drop commando to pick up merchant.... I'll be back with the CU tho
That's where we are THE specialists and masters of our realm...
IdrisTycho wrote:
tacwraith wrote:
... but when in groups they are loved beyond belief because they cut down the time to kill a target but 1/3rd just by having ONE of them in the group.
...This would only be true for low end mobs that would have died in 10 seconds but instead died in 2, or would have died in 20 seconds but instead died in 11. The higher end mobs, the ones people group up to kill would go down at the same rate since their time-to-kill would be measured in minutes, not seconds. And over that period of time the DPS is what matters not the upfront damage.Also, since in SWG experience is gained only if you actually do damage to a target, commandos would be hated even for the lower end mobs. Since they would one shot them before everyone got enough shots off to get their exp.
I think you misunderstand the concept of the front-loaded damage dealer. The DPS in PAPER may be the SAME as the other proffessions. Here's where people and I think you too, confuse the role of the FLDD (front loaded damage dealer)... even though the dps is equal, the ability to take down a large chunk of a target in one hit cuts down the time for the group to kill the target.
Why? How? Mathematically impossible since dps is = ?
A: Variables.
A rifleman or pistoleer, a tka or swordman will not hit 10 out 10 shots..and never hit for the same amount. They usually hit for less than max amount in 4 out of 10 hits and perhaps miss 2 out of 10 shots. Lag may make the player 'skip' a combat round without firing a special attack as well. Attacks dont hit the same ham bar either (but to better illustrate this ill just make believe all classes can hit one ham bar for full damage if they want to)
But the FLDD player, when it hits, does the damage of 10 combat rounds (or 8 or 9 or 10 since they are also subject to the attack hitting for less than max damage) in one combat round. And yes, if it misses his DPS is down the toilet (which is why they are unpopular solo classes).
so, if a rifleman and tka's max damage was 1000 damage per hit per second...10 seconds total..
tka misses 2 attacks, hits for less than max damage in 4 attacks (say, 80% of normal) and does full damage in 3 attacks and spends one attack round doing a special move (KD) that doesnt stick.... out of 8 attacks that scored, 3 did 3000 damage and the other 4 did (800 X 4) 3200 damage and the KD attack that missed did about 20% of normal so 200 damage...
Total: 6400 damage.
rifleman uses bleed attack which does 50% of a normal attack, hits 5 times for full damage and misses one shot and the last shot does less than normal (80%) damage and uses 2 shots to inflict dizzy or scare away target or whatever other effect-inducing special rifleman has... 5000 from the 5 full damage hits, one hit for 500 and one hit for 800 damage and one just missed and 2 that did less than half damage since they were effect specials..say 400 each...
Total: 6700 damage.
commando:
3 possibilities:
-Shot misses.
total damage=0
-Shot does less than full damage (say 80%)
Total damage 8000
-Shot does full damage
Total Damage: 10,000
And that my friend is why the FLDD are loved in groups. 2 out of 3 chances to do guaranteed higher damage over time than another combat class. They cut down the time to kill a mob because its that difference between 6400 and 6700 damage and 8000 to 1000 damage that makes the mob die faster than if the FLDD was replaced by a non-FLDD class. usually 1/3rd faster. If the FLDD misses...well, thats bad..but its a 1 in 3 chance (in laymans terms).
mjPboy wrote:
My impression from the CU and all the info that has come my way through hints and pure self speculation, is that using the master marksman and the unarmed tree , to me indicates us Master commandos will be jack of all trades, but Master of none. I get the feeling that we will get soem skills in all weapon certs, nice counters allowing us to fight on frontline and melee wont slaughter us, some crowd control from carbineer, soe long and short range....but nothing to truly define us. The use of heavy weapons may be one way I guess, but I cant help think a Master rifleman/pistoleer/carbineer would be better at doing the ranged support tasks.
Will we ever truly master anything that our profession gives us?
(((looks around to see if any Dev is watching)))
In the CU we are seeing a focus to make us Weapon specialists thanks to our various pre-reqs and such...but remember, we will still own the Heavy Weapon department...That's where we are THE specialists and masters of our realm...
It's hard to explain how exactly we will be masters of our role when I can't really tell you (thanks to the NDA) what our role is going to be...Our role really isn't changing hugely from what it's always been (or at least what WE think it always should have been)...The key thing is we are seeing certain fixes, enhancements and additions that make us fulfill our "role" better then other professions could...Sure, a M.Rifleman/M.Commando will still fill a heavy ranged support group role better then a "M.Commando/TKM", but the higher they go into Commando, the better they will be...The trick of the new "roles" will be knowing how and when to combine them...as in, take the Rifleman role and merge it with the Commando role to create your new Strategic role for how you would like to function in a group or solo...
I hope that makes sense....